Mafia 1 - The CROWN - GAME OVER!

Guilt is a numbers game.
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Gridfon
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#551

Post by Gridfon »

Mary wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:07 pm
With regard to the EC's campaign of keeping Moxy around until he proves himself, I think Gridfon made some really valid points. It would be really hard to corroborate given how many NTAs are likely at play in a game like this, with 28 players. So I think the town stands to gain more from putting an end to this malarkey.
Please do not use me as an excuse to lynch Moxy either. Up to this point, I did not reveal whether I will or will not vote for Moxy. I maintain that I do no like Moxy's explanations, but I will not vote for him today. I do not agree with any of EC's explanations of why keeping Moxy is useful, because he's trying to claim there is an organized&structured way to use Moxy. There is none. But keeping Moxy will lead to some amount of useful chaos. Whatever he will claim he did with his NTAs could be checked against his presumed targets to learn something useful.

It also bothers me that I see several seemingly random votes against Moxy casted by what I perceive as rather inactive players. I will go back and reread the justification each of them provided.
EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:50 pm
Moxy 11 (blissie, radwulf, phox, princess.ruxi, SilveXtru, behemoth, zero, Mary, Bombaclaat, MrWaffles, rene)
But time is running short, and I think we should spare Moxy for now, dropping a couple of these votes to avoid deadline lynch.

Nanaa
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#552

Post by Nanaa »

Rene wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:20 pm
That's why l changed my vote to Moxy as well, and that didn't catch your attention for some reason?
Oh sorry, didn't spot you on "vote Moxy" -list when wrote that! Only zero. I'll regard you as innocent then

edit: typo
Last edited by Nanaa on Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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EscapedConvict
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#553

Post by EscapedConvict »

Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:17 pm
EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:09 pm
Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:47 pm
How can Moxy block the mafia killing?
1. Mafia players usually designate the one to carry out the kill, and they can choose a mafia member who is not blocked.
Depends, the mod can designate. (Godfather)
Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:47 pm
2. According to Moxy's description of his role, it seems he blocks only the outgoing NTAs of his target, but he does not block other people from choosing the same target for their NTAs. At least that is my take on it; I voiced it and no one disagreed with me on that. Do you disagree with me on that?
Sure, didn't say otherwise.
Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:47 pm
3. Even if Moxy could block all incoming and outgoing NTAs, you told that we as townies choose the target, so obviously mafia are aware of it and will simply not target the same person for a kill.
I was referring to blocking a mafia kill or blocking an infection.
Your response is ambiguous, so let me check I understand you correctly. Are you saying that may be the mod did not give them a choice to delegate who kills/infects people, and we happen to randomly decide to block that target?
Yes. Or block an infection (i.e. what happened to Joesatri)

Skuggi
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#554

Post by Skuggi »

Rene wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:20 pm
[...] Though I also believe, it's highly unlikely at this point, because of that last message function debate. That's why l changed my vote to Moxy as well, and that didn't catch your attention for some reason?
If you are referring to the message Moxy sent to me, I think there could very well be a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. The obvious reason is the one Moxy already mentioned: How do you respond to an anonymous message? I am certainly not ready to vote for Moxy based on this.

Gridfon
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#555

Post by Gridfon »

Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:25 pm
It also bothers me that I see several seemingly random votes against Moxy casted by what I perceive as rather inactive players. I will go back and reread the justification each of them provided.
Just to explain what I meant, I do not think that votes like these were casted as a result of someone's careful analysis of what Moxy told to us. I think such votes should not tip the lynch decision over the edge, and get Moxy lynched.
blissie wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:41 pm
Moxy wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:30 am
Princess is not onto something. It’s complete bullshit and people actually considering it is hugely suspicious to me.
Why is it so crazy to believe some alternative game-play? Let's not forget who is the mod. The fact that you are implying that if we believe anything else than your general narrative makes us suspicions, is typical rookie mob mistake.

Unvote Pelasgi

Vote Moxy
SilveXtru wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:31 am
unvote pelasgi
Just to add a little pressure: vote Moxy

Now is your chance to give us your "complete" description cause what you provided to us by now is insufficient and I don't buy that.
Brute strength and stupidity ? You have to be kidding me. Who heard about having a stupidity ability and saying they played poorly ?

Moxy if you truly are a townie now is the time to speak otherwise you won't see the second day.
Bombaclaat wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:35 pm
Sander wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:16 pm
Bombaclaat wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:09 pm
Likewise Moxy is very suspect.
unvote Escaped Convict
vote Trigardon
People are unvoting Trigardon and going after Moxy. Your vote is going to be a waste like this. If you find Moxy very suspicious. Why not end it?
Fair point... There was so much for me to read. :lol: :lol: :lol:

unvote Trigardon
vote Moxy

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valli
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#556

Post by valli »

Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:38 pm
Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:25 pm
It also bothers me that I see several seemingly random votes against Moxy casted by what I perceive as rather inactive players. I will go back and reread the justification each of them provided.
Just to explain what I meant, I do not think that votes like these were casted as a result of someone's careful analysis of what Moxy told to us. I think such votes should not tip the lynch decision over the edge, and get Moxy lynched.

[...]
Fully aggree with you, no big discussions forward and backward just a quick and dirty vote ...

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Heffie
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#557

Post by Heffie »

I'm gonna just repeat that for me, moxy's behaviour is clearly that of a baddie. I didn't vote for him - not because we could use him as that wouldn't be possible since mafia can see everything we discuss and plan accordingly, but because I wanted a role from trig to be certain before lynching Moxy. We could go for an instant lynch tomorrow if need be and move on to the next suspect. I don't think the time zones are that big of an issue from what I've seen today, it's just willingness to post and make a decision.

Going to stick to my decision.

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#558

Post by Rene »

Skuggi wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:34 pm
Rene wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:20 pm
[...] Though I also believe, it's highly unlikely at this point, because of that last message function debate. That's why l changed my vote to Moxy as well, and that didn't catch your attention for some reason?
If you are referring to the message Moxy sent to me, I think there could very well be a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. The obvious reason is the one Moxy already mentioned: How do you respond to an anonymous message? I am certainly not ready to vote for Moxy based on this.
I already covered this in a post I think, but I struggle to see the use of an ability that asks you to reveal your night time ability along with your identity to a total stranger via an anonymous message. Even accepting that they can choose to not reply back to you at all. See, that ability makes no sense to me. Leaving a hint at night anonymously, and then using it next day like Moxy actually did to you should be better to earn one's trust. And it's what made me trust Moxy the most. And the possibility of getting the answer on the "next" night, that's even worse for same reasons stated above. And I was the first one to point out the lack of correlation between Moxy's task and the content of message they sent to you, Skuggi. They made some explanations to and I still think it's a misplay if they turn out to be innocent.

But what really bothers me with all this is, we can all discuss this because Moxy was honest with the abilities and came up when asked to. Moxy is the only person to do that so far and we're punishing it. This really sucks.

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Moxy
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#559

Post by Moxy »

Yet Rene your vote is still on me

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#560

Post by Rene »

Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:38 pm
Just to explain what I meant, I do not think that votes like these were casted as a result of someone's careful analysis of what Moxy told to us. I think such votes should not tip the lynch decision over the edge, and get Moxy lynched.
blissie wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:41 pm
...
SilveXtru wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:31 am
...
Bombaclaat wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:35 pm
...
valli wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:40 pm
Fully aggree with you, no big discussions forward and backward just a quick and dirty vote ...
That's pretty suspicious indeed. FINE, I'm going to swap my vote for the last time and then log out, because I literally hate this.

unvote Moxy
vote Radwulf

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Moxy
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#561

Post by Moxy »

Oh and since he got the voted rads gone silent,

Yes time zones and all that but she should be up and be able to type now...

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EscapedConvict
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#562

Post by EscapedConvict »

For what it's worth, besides my vote on radwulf, these are my fingers of suspicion as a result of Day 1.
(for posterity, in case I don't survive the night, even though, the mafia are in for a big surprise, if they target me :o 8-)):

- Mary
- behemoth
- bombaclaat
- siderite
- SilveXtru
- Heffie
- Telvek
- pelasgi (inactive)
- Emilly (inactive)
- Renegade (completely inactive. will probably be mod killed)

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#563

Post by radwulf »

I have nothing to add Moxy. I can only reiterate why you deserve to be lynched: you used me as bait even though you wouldn't have been able to know I'm innocent unless you were mafia, you got caught in a lie about it, you claimed 2 night time abilities, you admit to being part of a distinct faction, and my #2 suspect declared he was willing to lynch you a few hours ago yet he's doing his darnest to save you.

Oh, and noni would probably vote you too but I think she's been forced to vote for zero by night action.

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valli
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#564

Post by valli »

Moxy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:52 pm
Oh and since he got the voted rads gone silent,

Yes time zones and all that but she should be up and be able to type now...
For sure another broken hand or finger ...

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phox
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#565

Post by phox »

Nanna the vote shift happened not to prevent the instant lynch, but to get answers from trigardon which was unactive for so long
Rene wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:20 pm
Nanaa wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:01 pm
I think the shift where people started to unvote Moxy and vote Trig to prevent Moxy's insta-lynch is interesting to follow up later. If indeed Moxy gets lynched and he is revealed to be mafia/non-townie, these vote-shifters may be same faction (Rene at least. Didn't get other names yet except zero but zero wants Moxy lynched now so it doesn't count anymore)
What you call the shift was the first concrete action to get a role claim from our only possible suspect based on night time activity, when compared to pointing fingers at people over behavioral analysis. Joesatri was the one who asked for it as they couldn't vote yet they had some convincing points. Yes I defended Moxy, even if it was to just offer antithesis to thesis for the most part. And I tried to corner Trigardon for that role claim Moxy shared, but Trigardon never did. And deep down I still hope Moxy turns out to be innocent to be honest, so this hundred percent certain town can start guessing themselves. Though I also believe, it's highly unlikely at this point, because of that last message function debate. That's why l changed my vote to Moxy as well, and that didn't catch your attention for some reason?

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Daemon
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#566

Post by Daemon »

Image

The CROWN is basically the definition of quarantine, yet nobody really wants to go outside and freezedieturntoice anyway. But quarantine is a hard thing. People hate it being forcefully stuck indoors. And they take it out on those that enforce such desperate measures. Moxy proved that for all his efforts, there's no corralling an angry mob.

Moxy (Security Chief) is put in cryo-stasis.

11 Moxy: blissie, radwulf, Phox, Princess.ruxi, SilveXtru, behemoth, Zero, Mary, Bombaclaat, MrWaffles, Nanaa
6 radwulf: Adela, Stringer, Escaped Convict, Sander, valli, Rene
4 Trigardon: Skuggi, Moxy, Heffie, Gridfon
3 NoLynch: pelasgi, Telvek, Trigardon
1 behemoth: Siderite
1 zero: Noni
1 Mary: Emilly

(Who's got dibs on bragging rights if i got the vote count wrong?)

It's now NIGHT 2, until April 18th, 20:00 GMT/UTC. Please send in your targets.
As with every night, players allowed to communicate may begin doing so.


MOTD:
Please read the rules.

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Daemon
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#567

Post by Daemon »

Just as the first night of quarantine had lit the hopes of CROWN's people, that the violence and the murders would stop with the first two unfortunate victims, the second night put them out like a candle's flame inside a vacuumed enclosure. Stringer, who failed to report in the morning, was discovered dead in his room. A hammer much like the ones used by maintenance personnel, the obvious murder weapon, was abandoned not two feet away from his spilled brains.

Stringer (Security Guard) was found with his head smashed in.

It's DAY 2, until Wednesday, April 22nd, 20:00 GMT/UTC
There are 26 players remaining. 14 votes required for instant lynch and no lynch, 9 votes required for deadline lynch.


-----------------------------------------------------
(1)
Please use the new BBCode I've added for voting and unvoting, suggested by multiple people. Didn't know it was that easy. It's the last BB tag in the toolbar, after the font size, called V.

So you use it like so:

[v]vote Test[/v]
[v]unvote Test[/v]
[v]vote NO LYNCH[/v]

Or you can write your text and then select it, like so:
vote Test
...and click the small V button i've already mentioned.

It turns the encased text bold and red, like so:
vote Test

(2)
Please refrain from using obnoxious font formatting :P. Italic/bold/underline is okay, colors and non-standard font sizes are not. Thank you!

(3)
Regarding the email communications, in order to make sure nothing gets lost to spamguards:
-If you received any email from me in the morning, as a result of role interactions, yours or others', please reply to confirm it.
-If you expected an email from me in the morning, as a result of your night actions, and you didn't, please let me know asap!
Thank you!

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valli
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#568

Post by valli »

So, no good morning... we lynched a townie and mafia killed another one. Both security team.

I will put my vote from last day on and want to here statement from radwulf.

vote raduwlf

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EscapedConvict
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#569

Post by EscapedConvict »

Vote radwulf

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joesatri
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#570

Post by joesatri »

Sure, let's vote radwulf since today I can.

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EscapedConvict
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#571

Post by EscapedConvict »

Now would be a good time for all the tiownies to go back and read all Striger's posts from yesterday and also radwulf'relemtless attacks on Stringer's good arguments.
Not to mention what he did in Moxys case when he refused to consider any possibility that Moxy could be innocent.

Would also be a good time to see which players took Stringers arguments in consideration and which didn't to know who should be next after we lynch radwulf.

Radwulf was chief attacker in both cases: Moxy amd Srringer.

I think we have a pretty clear picture at this point.

We have 2 townies dead. I strongly advise we don't lose any more time and insta lynch radwulf asap.

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EscapedConvict
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#572

Post by EscapedConvict »

Fat fingers on the phone keyboard.. Corrections to previous post:
-townies
-relentless

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joesatri
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#573

Post by joesatri »

That was the first thing i did. 14 posts in day 1, not that many.

So.. Moxy's voters:
blissie, radwulf, Phox, Princess.ruxi, SilveXtru, behemoth, Zero, Mary, Bombaclaat, MrWaffles, Nanaa

Based on day 1, I would say.. we have radwulf.. behemoth, SilveXtru... <- my top 3 picks from the voters of the our beloved security Chief.

Let's not forget Trigardon. It makes sense for security chief to block somebody.
If Trigardon was the one that was supposed carry out the kill on Night1, and he was blocked... no kill makes sense!
I still have not heard a role claim from Trigardon.

Also.. the coincidence is a bit weird.. right? Security Chief is lynched.. security guard is killed... ? Anybody feel the same?

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Heffie
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#574

Post by Heffie »

Thanks joesatri, I agree, but I'll vote for the same person I was voting for yesterday because as it's been pointed out several times, he's been blocked and there was no kill the first night so he's actually the number one suspect vote: trigardon

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#575

Post by radwulf »

I don't even get a last word, EC? A role claim, perhaps? By your style of play, should I now post in ALL CAPS: "OMG how dare you do something like that, EC, a veteran player like you, insta-lynching someone without at least asking for a role claim?" Wasn't a premature role demand the reason you were relentlessly gunning for me yesterday? But a premature insta-lynch call from you today is perfectly acceptable townie behavior?

From the mafia, the game demands constant fabrication of false thoughts, false reasoning, false intent. For the town, it is an exercise in the detection of falsehood. Therefore, Moxy's lynch was absolutely valid. Even if there was nothing else against him except his admitted lie, I still would have pushed for his lynching. If you lie, you are probably mafia, and you deserve to be lynched. As simple as that.

IF I were Mafia on the other hand, I would have accused Moxy, voted him, argued for his death, BUT NOT RELENTLESSLY! It is much too dangerous for a scum to push so hard for the death of someone whose innocence he knows or suspects, on day 1. It is much more sensible to follow a path of lesser resistance in the beginning of the game as mafia.

If you review my behavior yesterday, you will see a consistent pattern of beneficial service to the town:
- I helped the town move out of the "greeting phase" which might have burned precious game time without enough posts of substance.
- I approved of and participated in the strategy to activate the large mass of lurkers, which are impossible to detect as mafia otherwise.
- I discovered the need for us to perform a voting test in case Joesatri's "not feeling well / vote block" was the symptom of infection.
- I pushed hard for the lynching of the #1 suspect WITHOUT HEDGING, WITHOUT RESERVE, in a manner fundamentally incompatible with how a scum would have done it.

If someone wishes to self-disclose their inability to vote due to not feeling well, please do so.

Everyone else, please be sure to start the day by voting someone so we can be sure to conclude the voting test before the day ends.

vote: Escaped Convict

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EscapedConvict
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#576

Post by EscapedConvict »

Radwulf in my mind there is no doubt you're scum.
Facts point us in that direction

But of course you have to fight. What good mafia wouldn't?

Your out of character loud and overlong post shows me you're desperate.

It's the only defense you still have left: go on the attack again and try to control the narrative.

Any role claim does not absolve you of anything after what you did yesterday and it only gives you the opportunity to twist things even more.

So in the same spirit of you having no mercy for our townie Moxy, because of his erratic behavior but in spite of solid arguments that you should have given it a second thought, you youself should not be forgiven for what you did yeaterday.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I only ask of my fellow townies to see the facts amd act swiftly so we can try to move on to the next mafia target.

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EscapedConvict
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#577

Post by EscapedConvict »

radwulf wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:34 pm
IF I were Mafia on the other hand, I would have accused Moxy, voted him, argued for his death, BUT NOT RELENTLESSLY! It is much too dangerous for a scum to push so hard for the death of someone whose innocence he knows or suspects, on day 1. It is much more sensible to follow a path of lesser resistance in the beginning of the game as mafia.
Wrong.
You took your chance, pushed hard and got a townie lynched on Day 1. You could not miss a chance like that.
Would be foolish to do so, by all mafia standards,
A victory to be celebrated by your clan, no doubt.

Gridfon
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#578

Post by Gridfon »

The fate of our security staff is truly unfortunate.

In retrospect, it should have been obvious that this night's victim was a security guard. I'm ashamed I did not figure it out until I saw him dead in the morning. But oh well, I could not have helped him even if I knew he was a security guard. Granted, I'm also not 100% sure that our security guards are/were loyal to us.

What now? I suppose there are three obvious targets for interrogation. Radwulf. Skuggi. Trigardon.

I will start from Skuggi. Did you learn anything new about having been able to send a response to Moxy?

vote Skuggi

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#579

Post by Princess.ruxi »

Oh, no, things are not going well for us.
Going back and re-reading everything in the light of the knowledge we have.

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joesatri
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#580

Post by joesatri »

Gridfon wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:59 am

What now? I suppose there are three obvious targets for interrogation. Radwulf. Skuggi. Trigardon.

I will start from Skuggi. Did you learn anything new about having been able to send a response to Moxy?

vote Skuggi
Say what? Based on the above reasoning you vote Skuggi?

radwulf, are you really gonna wait for n votes more for a role claim? Yes, you pushed hard. Good job. Your role, please.
We should be more practical today.

zero
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#581

Post by zero »

There is absolutely no proof that Moxy and indeed Stringer were townies. Anyone who tries to blindly enforce this view has ulterior motives. It's clear that Moxy tried to obfuscate the real reason for sending messages at first and only revealed that it is to find other security team members when pressed. I am inclined to believe that were he successful in establishing communication with other members of the security team, it would have enabled them to communicate during the night and possibly establish a separate faction. There are likely other security guards among us now. Of course, I might be wrong, but it is a plot that we must entertain otherwise we run the risk of being caught off guard and let them slip under our radar.

I went back to the beginning and we can clearly see that the first two deaths occurred in different circumstances. One was a stabbing and the other as a result of a virus infection. Last night's death was not as a result of either but of a hammer attack and the weapon was found close to the victim. This clearly points to the fact that the attacker only had one hit at his disposal so it might have been performed by a vigilante, someone with a role of some sort of maintenance crew as depicted by Daemon.
Stringer, who failed to report in the morning, was discovered dead in his room. A hammer much like the ones used by maintenance personnel, the obvious murder weapon, was abandoned not two feet away from his spilled brains.
All of these details are presented to us with a purpose and we must certainly analyse them with care.

The real question is why there haven't been more stabbings since the comm technician's killer must still be among us or any more deaths due to viral infections similar to that of our microbial cytologist. If we look with care at all of these details, it becomes rather obvious that different factions might be at play here and the only roles that are guaranteed to be "townies" are the ones that might form part of the scientific committee i.e., scientists/researchers/technical. I might be very wrong on the latter but I am basing some of these assumptions on the mod stories. See below:
Under such urgent and unclear threats, cut off from the rest of the world, the scientific committee of CROWN decided that effective immediately, harsh but necessary measures would have to be taken at once.

As for radwulf. I have known him for a long time. I agree with him that it would be completely silly to push so hard for Moxy's lynch if he was mafia knowing very well that he would suffer the consequences the next day. This is the same reason why I believe EC to be townie as well, because he is pushing for radwulf's lynch so eagerly with no disregard of consequences were he to be wrong.

We must now seize the day and try to interrogate and find out as much as possible. I find it strange that joesatri is not interested in Trigardon anymore whereas yesterday he was encouraging all of us to divert our attention to him rather than Moxy. It's as if joesatri and valli anticipated EC's enthusiasm to go after radwulf and are pretty much using him to get radwulf lynched.

On the other hand, as opposed to yesterday when we had only a few hours to choose between Trigardon and Moxy, we now have significant more time at our disposal but we still need to use it wisely. As a result, I believe it is unavoidable at this stage and radwulf must come forward with a role claim.

Consequently, I vote: radwulf at least until we get to see a role from him.

MrWaffles
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#582

Post by MrWaffles »

Gridfon wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:59 am
The fate of our security staff is truly unfortunate.

In retrospect, it should have been obvious that this night's victim was a security guard. I'm ashamed I did not figure it out until I saw him dead in the morning. But oh well, I could not have helped him even if I knew he was a security guard. Granted, I'm also not 100% sure that our security guards are/were loyal to us.

What now? I suppose there are three obvious targets for interrogation. Radwulf. Skuggi. Trigardon.

I will start from Skuggi. Did you learn anything new about having been able to send a response to Moxy?

vote Skuggi
I can't decide on radwulf's innocence or guilt, but I don't feel suspicious of Skuggi based on the above logic. Moxy himself said Skuggi could not respond either due to not signing the message or NTA's happening simultaneously and thus responses happening the next day. As Moxy died on Day 1, I'm not sure Skuggi can get a response on Night 2. Plus Skuggi was on Moxy's side.

Edit: On Moxy's side during Day 1 arguments if that was not clear...

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#583

Post by Gridfon »

joesatri wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:18 am
Gridfon wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:59 am

What now? I suppose there are three obvious targets for interrogation. Radwulf. Skuggi. Trigardon.

I will start from Skuggi. Did you learn anything new about having been able to send a response to Moxy?

vote Skuggi
Say what? Based on the above reasoning you vote Skuggi?
Explain your sentiment please. It seems to me you operate based on some NTA discussion (did mafia agree to bandwagon Radwulf to start the day?) or based on some NTA ability you performed (and I'm not interested in your role declaration, nope)... But clearly you have information that I do not possess... My vote somehow violated your implicit assumptions about something. Explain to me. Is that correct?

------------

You have very few substantial posts from day 1. There are #190 and #349... The other 8 posts all look like fluff to me (for example, you being able to count other people's votes does not help me deduce anything about your affiliation).
joesatri wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:58 pm
radwulf wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:55 pm
.. I will declare my role if I become the town's #1 suspect.
Careful what you wish for... You're only 3 votes behind!
This is the only time you mentioned Radwful during Day 1. And I'm not sure this is indicative of anything beyond some friendly banter. I'm not sure this shows your attitude for or against anything. I cannot deduce that you were hostile or suspicious against Radwulf at any point during Day 1. So now Day 2 starts and you immediately jump on top of the EC's bandwagon against Radwulf:
joesatri wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:54 pm
Sure, let's vote radwulf since today I can.
joesatri wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:46 pm
Based on day 1, I would say.. we have radwulf.. behemoth, SilveXtru... <- my top 3 picks from the voters of the our beloved security Chief.
Nothing of this tells me why radwulf is your target. Explain please.

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Noni
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#584

Post by Noni »

@zero: I don't see where Joe said he isn't going after trig, quite the opposite. I think he just wants a role claim from radwulf and does not want to waste time.

I would add my vote but I am not feeling well so I can't make any such decisions today.
Radwulf be a sport and indulge us.

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Noni
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#585

Post by Noni »

Also without reading through the million posts yesterday, I don't feel like Stringer defended moxy as much as he could have with them being both part of the security team. His role claim would have made much more sense to Stringer than to us yet he didn't strike me as a fervent defender

zero
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#586

Post by zero »

Noni wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:50 am
@zero: I don't see where Joe said he isn't going after trig, quite the opposite. I think he just wants a role claim from radwulf and does not want to waste time.
You are right. I might have jumped the gun since both of us (myself and joesatri) seem to be led by pragmatism. It's just the fact that the goes straight for radwulf in his first post and only later comes back and mentions Trigardon which didnt sit that well with me.
joesatri wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:54 pm
Sure, let's vote radwulf since today I can.
Edit: both of us (myself and joesatri)

MrWaffles
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#587

Post by MrWaffles »

radwulf wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:34 pm
From the mafia, the game demands constant fabrication of false thoughts, false reasoning, false intent. For the town, it is an exercise in the detection of falsehood. Therefore, Moxy's lynch was absolutely valid. Even if there was nothing else against him except his admitted lie, I still would have pushed for his lynching. If you lie, you are probably mafia, and you deserve to be lynched. As simple as that.
I voted for Moxy as well, and while I can't speak of radwulf's guilt or innocence, I agree with at least some of his statements above.

Moxy played a strange game and became very suspicious by the end. He was a powerful role for the town, but he still directed a personally risky ploy to catch mafia. I feel his activity would have made him a target sooner or later for a night kill if not a day lynch. Given his powers, he could have just been more quiet, sent messages at night to people he found trustworthy, and blocked people he did not.

That being said, I realize now that he was just playing in a way I didn't understand. I am very sorry I was wrong about Moxy. I share the blame in that lynching and maybe I am just trying to justify my decision now.

MrWaffles
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#588

Post by MrWaffles »

Also, in order to show that I am not feeling ill today, I will vote for Emilly. I do not have any suspicion of Emilly, but I want to pick someone who is not getting voted on so that I don't accidentally tip them over a threshold.

vote Emilly

Nanaa
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#589

Post by Nanaa »

Reading from page 5:
Stringer wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:53 pm
radwulf wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:32 pm
Moxy's night time message is a lie: we are NOT all in this together; some of us are scum and are acting to destroy the rest of us. I'm guessing the message was crafted to first establish trust and then be used to disinform/misdirect.

So now Moxy is a proven day-time AND night-time liar (unless the message was sent by a mafia colleague). First day lynches don't get any clearer than this.
Tbh calling a message like "We're all in this together" a direct "lie" is pretty far-stretched attempt to call someone a liar.
In my experience, the people who are most vocal about calling other people liars, are the actual liars themselves, their accusations being the defense reaction, trying to shift attention.
The moment others hinted at your suspicious behavior, you emerged with more accusations to throw around, and pretty made up accusations at that.

Also, this wording "some of us are scum"... is it a subconscious talking?
That's a very thin reason to call Moxy a night-time liar. Very suspicious.

Since radwulf has majority of votes, I'll vote for him first.
vote radwulf

After that I'm up for pushing Trigardon

(Also sorry Moxy!)

Skuggi
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#590

Post by Skuggi »

Gridfon wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:59 am
What now? I suppose there are three obvious targets for interrogation. Radwulf. Skuggi. Trigardon.

I will start from Skuggi. Did you learn anything new about having been able to send a response to Moxy?

vote Skuggi
There was no new communication, or an option to communicate last Night, if that's what you mean. I tried to be very clear in Day 1 and shared every detail to better understand Moxy's message NTA. Like you, I wanted to figure out whether Moxy was a townie or not. However, I did ask Daemon, and he said there was a very logical reason for the no reply option - obviously without naming the reason. I still believe this is due to the message being anonymous, and therefore it wasn't possible to know who to reply to.

I am surprised at how much time was spent on this. It was quite clear that Moxy had this NTA (or someone in his faction if he was mafia). He said he could send messages and said the content of the message and I confirmed I received it.

In the end it looks like Moxy was unfortunately a townie, and was telling the truth. I will need to go through the posts of the people who voted for him again, as there are surely some mafia votes there.

In the meantime, I will Vote: Trigardon, who conveniently got out of declaring a role in Day 1 and was confirmed to be blocked on Night 1 by himself and Moxy - when we had no kill. I would like to hear what he got up in Night 2.

Sander
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#591

Post by Sander »

Though I had my vote on radwulf, shouldn't we go for the more obvious first, that being Trigardon? Moxy did block him and we did have no kill the first night.

If we now pressure radwulf for his role claim, I can only think of one outcome. And that is that some believe his role and others do not. I at least assume he has enough experience to be convincing. Just look at how he got enough people rallied to Lynch moxy. And it all started because Moxy use the word "Lynch" instead of "kill".

So I fear the whole day will be about convincing each other to Lynch him or not. While Trigardon will do what he does. Stay quiet, until there is no time left. And then we still have to mobilize everyone while time is running out. At least radwulf can't go hiding in silence now or it will only make him more suspicious. While Trigardon already does that.

So I suggest, to massively go on Trigardon. If he stays hidden, we have - the block and no kill - reason and take our chances. While afterwards we can come back on radwulf. That way we can settle both matters. Radwulf is active, Trigardon not.

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Emilly
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#592

Post by Emilly »

Sorry for yesterday, I couldnt be so active but I tryed to read a few km with posts.

Moxy said:
Moxy wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:18 pm
Oh and so as I Blocked trig last night and there was no kill my final vote for the day will end up on him.
Vote Trigardon
First night - nobody dies.
Second night - this hammer is most like a psycho. I think mafia did not kill again. Who is blocking or doctors...good job!

I dont think Radwulf is mafia.

vote Trigardon

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Bombaclaat
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#593

Post by Bombaclaat »

vote NO LYNCH

Just to show that I can vote. I'm not sure who I'd vote for. I better go re-read this novel ya'll been writing.

We're engaged in noble pursuit of science and yet people are getting killed of in the most barbaric fashion with blunt instruments. :shock: :shock: :shock:
It soon became clear that rodents were not the only ones subjected to hive-mind behavior when exposed to the virus.
This might be a weakness (that the baddies have) that can be exploited somehow... :?: :?: :?:

So the virus turns them into the Zerg basically :cry:

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Princess.ruxi
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#594

Post by Princess.ruxi »

Skuggi wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:57 am
Sander wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:44 am
Skuggi wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:19 am

This definitely sounds legit to me, and it sounds like a townie ability.
If anything, I’d think a traitor is in need of such an ability. And killing a traitor is as good as killing a mafia. So unless Moxy or someone else can convince me why I'm seeing that ability wrong, I'll rest my vote. Vote Moxy
I have only played mafia a couple of times before, and I saw this NTA once - on the townie side. I suppose it could be useful to traitors or even mafia to mess with people. But it seems to make the most sense for townies to send messages without the mafia noticing. I might be wrong obviously.

I do think Moxy has done everything he can to exonerate himself, by declaring his role and how he used it - and I can confirm at least half of it is true. And as I mentioned before, he's been active and cooperative.

I too would be interested in hearing more from Trigardon, so:

Unvote: Rene
Vote: Trigardon
This is the post that absolves Skuggi for me.

After reading part of day one I decided to vote Trigardon
- he starts and ends the day with a NO LYNCH vote
- he was semi-active - good mafia tactical move
- he was blocked on the first night and no one got killed
- on day one he is voted by Moxy and just votes back without a reason
- he called Moxy a filthy mafia spy and and talks about Moxy's silly mafia tricks (in the first 50 posts) which to me seems overly confident and also not something a townie would do - too little info at that point.

@EscapedConvict I know you are eagerly waiting to get the town to vote for your buddy, I am not convinced yet by radwulf, I think Trigardon is more likely mafia, and we have more proof here. Let's deal with this first.

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Princess.ruxi
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#595

Post by Princess.ruxi »

Unofficial vote count:
4 for Trigardon - Emilly, Heffie, Skuggi, Princess.ruxi
5 for Radwulf - EscapedConvict, JoeSatri, Nanaa, Valli, Zero
1 for Skuggi - Gridfon
1 for Emilly - MrWaffles
1 for EscapedConvict - Radwulf
1 for No lynch - Bombaclaat
1 unable to vote - Noni

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Mary
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#596

Post by Mary »

Morning all, I was really hoping this would've been another no kill night.

Though people are eager to jump on the radwulf wagon, I definitely think the whole Trigardon thing is more pressing. Btw radwulf I don't think going after someone relentlessly absolves you of suspicion, might be typical mob MO to lay low, but you're not exactly typical (this is a compliment to your skill in playing this game 🙂)

Leaving Trigardon's lack of day 1 activity aside, the no kill and him being blocked combo seems like an unlikely coincidence. Vote Trigardon

Given Daemons post at the beginning of the day, I've understood security to be pro town. It seems logical to me that Stringer should've corraborated moxy's role better - agree with noni here. Saying that though, he may have felt Moxy was beyond saving given how suspiciously he had acted and therefore didn't want to endanger himself. He did voice his suspicion of radwulf... so I'm noting that and putting it on the back burner until Trigardon makes an appearance.

Ps - @Pelasgi, @Telvek are you planning on contributing at all today or just lurking in the shadows?

SilveXtru
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#597

Post by SilveXtru »

Sad news for us. I really thought Moxy was hiding something due to his "stupidity" and "strength" abilities which didn't quite worked together in my head.
As for Stringer, I tend to think he was targeted by another hero inside our community, The hammer is a great hint here, very different from the stabbing and infecting like it happened in the first night.
So in my opinion the security are townies.

Now as far as radwulf, he built a "solid" case in that he helped a lot starting a lynch on Moxy and getting us involved and finding a scum but I think he was too vehemently sure Moxy was mafia, it's like he wanted him killed no matter the cost.
Honestly, I'm into knowing radwulf's role and he better save us the trouble of time if he really cares for the town. Stop stalling.

Regarding Trigardon, I find him as suspicious as radwulf, because of the "no lynch" tactic he adopted first day, the fact that he was blocked and no one died first night, this just a few reasons. vote Trigardon for now to make him also responsible to explain his behavior and jump in with a role.
@radwulf, we are waiting for your role as well.

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EscapedConvict
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#598

Post by EscapedConvict »

Mary wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:20 pm
Given Daemons post at the beginning of the day, I've understood security to be pro town. It seems logical to me that Stringer should've corraborated moxy's role better - agree with noni here. Saying that though, he may have felt Moxy was beyond saving given how suspiciously he had acted and therefore didn't want to endanger himself. He did voice his suspicion of radwulf... so I'm noting that and putting it on the back burner until Trigardon makes an appearance.
Yes, he did. See below. I know you're trying to confuse, Mary, but try to do it more subtly, like radwulf does maybe?
Stringer wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:40 pm
I wonder where is radfwulf now.
He was pretty vocal, went as far as calling Moxy liar and scum, and begged us all to lynch Moxy... and was pushing hard for Moxy to reveal his role.

Now, once that is done, radwulf is suddenly quiet, no comments, not a single post since then.

It seems like radwulf saw an opening to push Moxy to reveal his role, and took the opportunity.

And now that this objective is completed, he falls silent.

Isn't that what mafia would do, push townys to reveal their roles asap?
Stringer also voted for Radwulf yesterday.

I also don't like arguments like Gridfon's & zero's, at this point in the game, that try to imply that our security guards might have been scum.
I mean c'mon.
I know you will say "let's keep an open mind" but we can't afford to do that indefinitely. At some point we have to pick sides. Something that a mafia player cannot do.
So saying they might be mafia is just creating haze, imo, since Stringer' death at night basically confirms it that they were both townies. (yes, yes the 3 factions arguments...but that does not stand at the moment with no death in Night 1 only one death in Night 2)

And what makes me believe even more that the security guards were good guys? This post by Stringer from yesterday:
Stringer wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:39 pm
valli wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:21 pm
Still what benefit does that security team bring. What is the role of the security team? You are not really answering that.
At risk of sounding captain obvious, the security team role must be to protect?...
It's Daemon we're talking about, he wouldn't call that group (assuming there is a group) "Security" just for the sake of naming it anyhow, and then give it a completely different role in spirit, he is pretty meticulous about such things.
Cooks prepare foods, scientists research stuff, janitors clean, guards protect, etc. It's pretty much definition of the word. Think "security" at hotel or something.
Well, there are also prison kind of guards, who keep prisoners imprisoned, but even then their general role is to protect good guys from bad guys, and ours is not a prison situation. Officially appointed scientific facility security must be there to protect.
Stringer also suspected behemoth (see post #179) who is very high on my suspects list as well.
BTW, we should maybe pay attention a little closer to people leaving soft clues during day talks. I have a feeling it's getting lost in translation a little too often. (i.e. top of my suspects list I left yesterday). And I'm not talking about myself only.

To Trigardon's case. I would like to hear a detailed role description from him as as well but like Sander agreed in post #591 to what I said in #576, radwulf declaring a role would only favor radwulf in trying to convince others to keep him alive in spite of strong evidence of his mafia like behavior.

My vote on radwulf stays.

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EscapedConvict
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#599

Post by EscapedConvict »

I just want to add that Stringer' s post #531 (apart from his other solid arguments) from yesterday is most likely what killed him.
What made him a target.
As mafia, that clue would definitely not get passed radwulf .

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Noni
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#600

Post by Noni »

@EC you're fine to give everyone the benefit of the doubt but we should not keep an open mind?

Locked