Mafia 1 - The CROWN - GAME OVER!

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radwulf
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#401

Post by radwulf »

No, it's a bad idea borne out of EC's desperation at losing his Godfather on day 1. The town is divided and uncertain right now. A successful lynch would bring tremendous value to the accuracy of NIGHT 2 actions. Right now we are not united enough for a lynch, no way there's enough consensus to direct a block.

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Moxy
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#402

Post by Moxy »

radwulf wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:17 pm
Moxy wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:35 pm
Sigh explain why I have two NTA’s ? Well I didn’t want this information out there but I’m head of security. I can send messages to look for my other members of security team. Everyone I send a message too can reply. So whether my other members of security can send messages to me Without having to wait for me to send one I would of thought so. And that information I didn’t want out there but if it saves me sorry guys.

And what you mean others have none? It’s daemons game! Everyone unless your a backup has an nta. At least has been in the last 3 games daemon has modded. I wouldn’t expect it to be any different.
Moxy, the message you actually sent does not fit the purpose you claimed above. I would have expected something along the lines of a question, "are you security too?" And why didn't you want that information out there?--there's nothing conceivably dangerous in it for the town. It's only dangerous if you're mafia, and you were thereby revealing your membership in a distinct faction.
Er I didn’t want the mafia to know I could block or that there is a security team. Before my role claim I expect most people though townies were scientists. In fact this is your exact thinking. I didn’t want mafia to know they can fake other roles than just scientist.

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#403

Post by Rene »

Yes, I honestly think Moxy misplayed a bit. But we're all new to this with new abilities, hybrid roles et cetera. Wouldn't it be hilarious yet effective if Moxy blocked Trigardon again?

And then see if nobody dies again, or prove Trigardon is innocent with a death or... Whatever it's to come, really. Because I've very little clue about what everyone "can" do.

Like what's the worst thing that can happen if Moxy keeps blocking Trigardon for the remainder of the game. If they are evil, they might get rid of Moxy, which is better if baddies do that then we lynch an innocent cooperative person. If they are good and we block a good guy, the moment someone else "dies" that could alleviate the suspicions around Trigardon because Moxy had been keeping tabs on them.
Last edited by Rene on Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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valli
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#404

Post by valli »

Moxy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:21 pm
radwulf wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:02 pm
At this point, I'm pretty sure the classic, killing-faction is the Security team, under orders to liquidate the base with no news leaking to the outside. Moxy is probably their Godfather. Under pressure, he eventually claimed two of their night-time abilities, a hopefully fatal mistake. Both abilities make much more sense for a mafia faction than a townie
well well. Look here first mistake radwulf

First of its pointed at daemons first posts that communication as been cut so how would we have had an order from the outside to liquify the base huh?

We’re the Secruity team not an army team.

I bet you anything the Mafia team is the Chinese scientist trying to cover up.

So yeah nice try but thanks.
Moxy, Daemon's text mentions an Aurora Borealis blocking communication, 2nd post mentions scientists rushing to the comm room. So apparently there they had some clue that the Aurora Borealis was already over. So there can be a timeframe between Aurora Borealis ending and someone communicating and killing the comm technician. So your statement is not valid. There could've been an order getting inside and maybe the technician caught the person receiving the message and he got killed for that.

The more I think about this security team thing the more it irritates me, why would there be another team within the townie faction? Also the thing with Skuggi not being able to respond and you coming up with that "I didn't sign the messge thing" does not make sense to me. Finding the security team, for what purpose do you need to find them? You should know your team anyway, it's just not logical at all.

Due to that all your are the best target to vote on for day one, so that's my vote.
vote Moxy

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Moxy
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#405

Post by Moxy »

radwulf wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:17 pm
Moxy wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:35 pm
Sigh explain why I have two NTA’s ? Well I didn’t want this information out there but I’m head of security. I can send messages to look for my other members of security team. Everyone I send a message too can reply. So whether my other members of security can send messages to me Without having to wait for me to send one I would of thought so. And that information I didn’t want out there but if it saves me sorry guys.

And what you mean others have none? It’s daemons game! Everyone unless your a backup has an nta. At least has been in the last 3 games daemon has modded. I wouldn’t expect it to be any different.
Moxy, the message you actually sent does not fit the purpose you claimed above. I would have expected something along the lines of a question, "are you security too?" And why didn't you want that information out there?--there's nothing conceivably dangerous in it for the town. It's only dangerous if you're mafia, and you were thereby revealing your membership in a distinct faction.
Yeah right at the star of the game going blindly I was going to let a random person who could be mafia know that there was some townies out there that weren’t scientist before even day one posts. Not likely.

Your right that What you suggest is good for further down the line but my bad play didn’t let me get that far....

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#406

Post by Rene »

We don't need a consensus to pick a target for Moxy. Highest number of votes should do even if it's 1 or 2, as there's no mechanical barrier. I made my case about blocking Trigardon further. But I'm all ears for better target reasonings for that. And I felt like we never asked you Moxy. Do you comply to block whoever we ask?
Last edited by Rene on Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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EscapedConvict
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#407

Post by EscapedConvict »

radwulf wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:26 pm
No, it's a bad idea borne out of EC's desperation at losing his Godfather on day 1. The town is divided and uncertain right now. A successful lynch would bring tremendous value to the accuracy of NIGHT 2 actions. Right now we are not united enough for a lynch, no way there's enough consensus to direct a block.
Scum.

You would never in a million years , as a townie diwmiss an idea of using someone's ability for the sake of the town if it was feasible. And it definitely is.

My vote stays on radwulf and I nominate him for the block.

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EscapedConvict
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#408

Post by EscapedConvict »

EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:15 pm
One fact remains: Moxy can block NTAs (until proven otherwise)

Wouldn't it be wise to keep him around and we the town chose who to block every night?

The town would have that weapon. Even if Moxy is a psycho/traitor.
We use him to our benefit.

I will not vote Moxy and I strongly suggest people reconsider.
Again, keep in mind we have multiple lynch available to us.
Heffie?

Bombaclaat?

Gridfon?

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Moxy
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#409

Post by Moxy »


Moxy, Daemon's text mentions an Aurora Borealis blocking communication, 2nd post mentions scientists rushing to the comm room. So apparently there they had some clue that the Aurora Borealis was already over. So there can be a timeframe between Aurora Borealis ending and someone communicating and killing the comm technician. So your statement is not valid. There could've been an order getting inside and maybe the technician caught the person receiving the message and he got killed for that.
Welcome another mafia helping out his fellow mafia to kill a townie, and once again they are creating story’s and trying to convince people to lynch of stories rather than facts.

“They’re could’ve been this”.... speculation not fact
The more I think about this security team thing the more it irritates me, why would there be another team within the townie faction? Also the thing with Skuggi not being able to respond and you coming up with that "I didn't sign the messge thing" does not make sense to me. Finding the security team, for what purpose do you need to find them? You should know your team anyway, it's just not logical at all.
What purpose to find them? To know who to trust and who is townie?

The thing about skuggi not being able to reply like I said I don’t know why he couldn’t I’ve been told he could. Like I said before maybe not signing my name means he didn’t know who to send the reply too? Who knows maybe he’s mafia and going along like this to get a powerful townie lynched? Maybe it was just innocent confusion who Knows! I don’t I’ve told townies everything

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valli
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#410

Post by valli »

Rene wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:35 pm
We don't need a consensus to pick a target for Moxy. Highest number of votes should do even if it's 1 or 2, as there's no mechanical barrier. I made my case about blocking Trigardon further. But I'm all ears for better target reasonings for that. And I felt like we never asked you Moxy. Do you comply to block whoever we ask?
No you are wrong. READ the rules. 33% (rounded-up) are needed for a lynch, which is in our case 10 votes. Otherwise no lynch will happen and the day will end anyway.

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Moxy
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#411

Post by Moxy »

Oh yes I’m happy to block or send a message to whoever the townies agree too.

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valli
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#412

Post by valli »

Moxy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:40 pm

Moxy, Daemon's text mentions an Aurora Borealis blocking communication, 2nd post mentions scientists rushing to the comm room. So apparently there they had some clue that the Aurora Borealis was already over. So there can be a timeframe between Aurora Borealis ending and someone communicating and killing the comm technician. So your statement is not valid. There could've been an order getting inside and maybe the technician caught the person receiving the message and he got killed for that.
Welcome another mafia helping out his fellow mafia to kill a townie, and once again they are creating story’s and trying to convince people to lynch of stories rather than facts.
So your speculation is fine about the communication is fine, but if I bring up other possibilites you call me out for being mafia. Come on Moxy that's ridicolous.

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#413

Post by Moxy »

valli wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:40 pm
Rene wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:35 pm
We don't need a consensus to pick a target for Moxy. Highest number of votes should do even if it's 1 or 2, as there's no mechanical barrier. I made my case about blocking Trigardon further. But I'm all ears for better target reasonings for that. And I felt like we never asked you Moxy. Do you comply to block whoever we ask?
No you are wrong. READ the rules. 33% (rounded-up) are needed for a lynch, which is in our case 10 votes. Otherwise no lynch will happen and the day will end anyway.
Valle you mis reading, he’s taking about who to send a message to with my nta. Not lynching. Skimming posts?

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#414

Post by Rene »

Yeah, I don't really trust radwulf either. And blocking him could be good. But I find It better to block Trigardon to put a softlock on the ongoing events. We, as the town are, already thinking no deaths happened because Trigardon was blocked as a possibility. So what does that mean? It means 1.) Trigardon indeed is a mafioso equivalent that brutally kills at night, with the knife and stuff. But because we block him, nobody dies.

2.)Trigardon is innocent, and there's a murderer at loose because we blocked Trigardon, be it radwulf or whoever really, but sincewe're blocking Trigardon, they wouldn't want to attack. Because if they attack, Trigardon would have his innocence proved, at least to some degree. So that means one more person will survive tonight. No?

I just think it's the best possible option for us. But do tell, what else we can do with that block.
valli wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:40 pm
Rene wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:35 pm
We don't need a consensus to pick a target for Moxy. Highest number of votes should do even if it's 1 or 2, as there's no mechanical barrier. I made my case about blocking Trigardon further. But I'm all ears for better target reasonings for that. And I felt like we never asked you Moxy. Do you comply to block whoever we ask?
No you are wrong. READ the rules. 33% (rounded-up) are needed for a lynch, which is in our case 10 votes. Otherwise no lynch will happen and the day will end anyway.
No I'm not wrong, we aren't talking about a lynch. We're talking about a block target. Stop derailing it.
Last edited by Rene on Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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valli
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#415

Post by valli »

Gosh, I misread that. -.-

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Noni
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#416

Post by Noni »

behemoth wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:02 pm
Noni wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:47 am
I'm not one to write long posts, so to make a long story short, here are my conclusions of day 1:
- radwulf and ec probably both townies and at each other for all the wrong reasons (unless radwulf has actual information that we don't and this is why he is so aggressive. I'd say the chances of that are slim to none)
Also, why would the chances of him having actual information be slim to none? He has as much of a chance for having actual info as any of us, and this being a Daemon game, there is definitely that chance.

Anyway, your drawing of conclusions and yet no vote by what will very soon be the end of day 1 is intriguing to me if not suspicious.
@behemoth:
Let me begin by saying I understand your confusion and I think both points you have raised are valid. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can at this moment in time :
1. my vote has been on zero since the start of the day.
2. I'm giving my conclusions based on what has happened so far in the game. It's the best way I can contribute to the game at the moment.
Everyone sees things differently based on what they know and how they experienced the game so far.
3.everything will be made more clear in due course :)

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phox
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#417

Post by phox »

Moxy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:42 pm
Oh yes I’m happy to block or send a message to whoever the townies agree too.
In this case if the town has complete control over the abilities, I think it would be a shame not to take advantage of them for at least one night, to see where it brings us

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Moxy
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#418

Post by Moxy »

valli wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:43 pm
Moxy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:40 pm

Moxy, Daemon's text mentions an Aurora Borealis blocking communication, 2nd post mentions scientists rushing to the comm room. So apparently there they had some clue that the Aurora Borealis was already over. So there can be a timeframe between Aurora Borealis ending and someone communicating and killing the comm technician. So your statement is not valid. There could've been an order getting inside and maybe the technician caught the person receiving the message and he got killed for that.
Welcome another mafia helping out his fellow mafia to kill a townie, and once again they are creating story’s and trying to convince people to lynch of stories rather than facts.
So your speculation is fine about the communication is fine, but if I bring up other possibilites you call me out for being mafia. Come on Moxy that's ridicolous.
I’m not lynching an innocent using made up stories

I’m making suggestions on why maybe skuggi couldn’t reply. That’s two very different things and two very seriously range of spectrum

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#419

Post by radwulf »

Rene, the mafia most likely can choose which one of them performs the kill. So blocking Trigardon doesn't necessarily block their kill.

EC, we don't need pacts with the devil, thanks. What we need is clarity for the town's Night 2 and Day 2's discussions, especially in this game where we may be facing a very unconventional threat.

You two's not so subtle last-ditch efforts to keep the Godfather alive are noted though.

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#420

Post by Gridfon »

EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:36 pm
EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:15 pm
One fact remains: Moxy can block NTAs (until proven otherwise)

Wouldn't it be wise to keep him around and we the town chose who to block every night?

The town would have that weapon. Even if Moxy is a psycho/traitor.
We use him to our benefit.

I will not vote Moxy and I strongly suggest people reconsider.
Again, keep in mind we have multiple lynch available to us.
Gridfon?
[Why] Are you trying to prematurely take the heat off Moxy?
Are you aware that my current vote is not even pointing at Moxy?

Also, what is your master strategy to get around this?
Gridfon wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:18 pm
To clarify about Moxy, I'm not sure he has a way to prove his innocence by using his NTA. Whatever he claims about his next night's action, it will very unlikely to be conclusive. Because it would require a confirmation from another person who is trusted by everyone here, and it would also require that no one interfered with Moxy's actions.
To me, you seem to suggest wasting a substantial part of the next 2-3 days focusing on Moxy in the face or arbitrary excuses of why he did not target someone you trusted, or why someone else [presumably] interfered and prevented Moxy from proving his NTA abilities.

I have not yet decided whether my final vote will go against Moxy. That in part depends on how he answers my questions.

@Moxy:
Was there any reasoning behind sending that exact message to Skuggi? I know you explained that revealing the existence of a "Security Team" to a random player would be bad, but there are many ways to be subtle and reveal little, yet maintain a chance to reap some benefits from your first night's NTA. What did you hope would happen in response to that message you sent to Skuggi?

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#421

Post by valli »

Moxy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:48 pm
valli wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:43 pm
Moxy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:40 pm


Welcome another mafia helping out his fellow mafia to kill a townie, and once again they are creating story’s and trying to convince people to lynch of stories rather than facts.
So your speculation is fine about the communication is fine, but if I bring up other possibilites you call me out for being mafia. Come on Moxy that's ridicolous.
I’m not lynching an innocent using made up stories

I’m making suggestions on why maybe skuggi couldn’t reply. That’s two very different things and two very seriously range of spectrum
And I am not voting for you based on made up stories. Read it up again, you accussed radulf of his first mistake concerning the communication story, I countered that by bringing up my alternative narrative which could work out. I never said that this is the absolute truth, it is a possibility, that's all.

I am voting on you based on the things which are not fitting together, that are facts which everyone can read up. Not something I made up.

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EscapedConvict
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#422

Post by EscapedConvict »

radwulf wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:48 pm

EC, we don't need pacts with the devil, thanks. What we need is clarity for the town's Night 2 and Day 2's discussions, especially in this game where we may be facing a very unconventional threat.

You two's not so subtle last-ditch efforts to keep the Godfather alive are noted though.
See even the fact that you're absolutely dismissing that Moxy *could* have a townie role gives you away.
You're basing you're arguments on a shaky premise.

Please answer this: what do we have to lose if we use Moxy's ability for the town's sake for a few nights?
Because we could have a lot to win.

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#423

Post by Gridfon »

Moxy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:42 pm
Oh yes I’m happy to block or send a message to whoever the townies agree too.
What happens if that townie dies to mafia this night and can not confirm you targeted them?
What happens if that happens two nights in a row?

Judging by Daemon's previous games, every single townie has an ability. Why would an actual townie want to get their (useful) ability get blocked by Moxy, AND at the same time become a prime target to a mafia kill (in case Moxy is actually innocent, as that would be an easy way to get him lynched afterwards).

@EscapedConvict: the same questions go to you.

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Moxy
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#424

Post by Moxy »

Accept I’m not the godfather. When it’s revealed I’m telling the truth youR absolute obsession with lynching me Is revealed what are you going to say then?

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#425

Post by EscapedConvict »

Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:49 pm
EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:36 pm
EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:15 pm
One fact remains: Moxy can block NTAs (until proven otherwise)

Wouldn't it be wise to keep him around and we the town chose who to block every night?

The town would have that weapon. Even if Moxy is a psycho/traitor.
We use him to our benefit.

I will not vote Moxy and I strongly suggest people reconsider.
Again, keep in mind we have multiple lynch available to us.
Gridfon?


[Why] Are you trying to prematurely take the heat off Moxy?
Are you aware that my current vote is not even pointing at Moxy?

Also, what is your master strategy to get around this?
It's not premature. We only have 6 hours left in the day.

And, yes, I am, I'm just trying to get your take on the matter.

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#426

Post by Moxy »

Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:54 pm
Moxy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:42 pm
Oh yes I’m happy to block or send a message to whoever the townies agree too.
What happens if that townie dies to mafia this night and can not confirm you targeted them?
What happens if that happens two nights in a row?

Judging by Daemon's previous games, every single townie has an ability. Why would an actual townie want to get their (useful) ability get blocked by Moxy, AND at the same time become a prime target to a mafia kill (in case Moxy is actually innocent, as that would be an easy way to get him lynched afterwards).

@EscapedConvict: the same questions go to you.
Well I would expect the healer to help me out. But you have a good point. To be honest I’m getting to the point of accepting that I’m going to get lynched today and I know that’s because of my bad play.

All I ask is you take a serious look at rad and the other voters who voted me off when it’s revealed I’m telling the truth.

Griff actually makes a fairly good point and I wouldn’t want to do anything that could risk the townie healer or another important townie come under fire by the mafia.

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#427

Post by Rene »

valli wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:45 pm
Gosh, I misread that. -.-
That's fine it happens, thought you were derailing on purpose, sorry for that.
radwulf wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:48 pm
Rene, the mafia most likely can choose which one of them performs the kill. So blocking Trigardon doesn't necessarily block their kill.

You two's not so subtle last-ditch efforts to keep the Godfather alive are noted though.
Mafia or the baddies or whoever it's might or might not be able choose who performs the kill. We can't know, until we learn more about their techniques.

But I find what's really funny, you know, when someone who's been pushing for Moxy for lying in their message, which is ridiculous, from the very early hours of the day. Then shows up and says that the other person who actually points out the most striking contradiction of Moxy's actions, which is the purpose of their role and the content of the message as an accomplice. Which even you Radwulf, also asked Moxy about, AFTER I brought it up.

I'm defending Moxy at this point and definitely not so subtly, because I believe they are cooperative, honest and useful for the town. Unlike yourself, barring a few good ideas you came up with so far. Not going to lie about the vote condition call. That might only be that you want to start fighting against the third party as a rotten one as well.

But still sir, you are not only being shady with the aggressive remarks but also passing on the chance to use a blocker as a town. Now where would that put you?

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#428

Post by Gridfon »

EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:56 pm
And, yes, I am, I'm just trying to get your take on the matter.
I disregarded your suggestion (until you pointed to me) because I see no substance to it, and I see no way to fix it. The latter means I also think that trying to work out a successful "keep Moxy around so he can prove his NTA" strategy is a waste of time.

But you go out of your way to push people into your [again, bad] strategy. So now I have to point out how bad it is...

Just to be clear, keeping Moxy alive for a day or two longer is a reasonable suggestion worth considering. There are cons and pros to that decision (and likewise to a decision to lynch him). In contrast, claiming that Moxy can somehow "prove" his NTA to everyone publicly is the part of your suggestion that is non-sense, and requires to be called out as such.

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#429

Post by Noni »

Just want to make two remarks :

@EC I don't think the instant lynch thing can work out. The are only a handful of people who are very active, some post from time to time and some have not contributed at all. The very active ones who could make an instant lynch happen are not all in agreement and I can't see the benefit of not using to opportunity we have today falling back on the multiple lynch option.


Regarding moxy's messaging ability :
There is one thing that doesn't add up. He claims ppl Can reply to his messages but then says he things skuggi may not have replied cause the message wasn't signed.
- what is the point of signing the message, if there was a reply it would go through the mod, you would not need tu specify who you are answering to
- skuggi claimed he received the message in the morning, so set the start of day one. How would a reply even be possible at this point?! Unless the messages are passed through the night back and forth, a reply cannot exist in the same night.
So why does someone who isn't mafia have the ability to have a dialogue during the night?! (note the difference between having a dialogue and just sending out a message)

Hope I've made this clear on paper as it is on my head :)

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#430

Post by EscapedConvict »

Rene wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:45 pm
Yeah, I don't really trust radwulf either. And blocking him could be good. But I find It better to block Trigardon to put a softlock on the ongoing events. We, as the town are, already thinking no deaths happened because Trigardon was blocked as a possibility. So what does that mean? It means 1.) Trigardon indeed is a mafioso equivalent that brutally kills at night, with the knife and stuff. But because we block him, nobody dies.

2.)Trigardon is innocent, and there's a murderer at loose because we blocked Trigardon, be it radwulf or whoever really, but sincewe're blocking Trigardon, they wouldn't want to attack. Because if they attack, Trigardon would have his innocence proved, at least to some degree. So that means one more person will survive tonight. No?

I just think it's the best possible option for us. But do tell, what else we can do with that block.
Good point but we also have to consider Tridardon is a townie and has a useful townie NTA. Blocking him would be to the town's detriment.

Maybe lynching Trigardon is inevitable today. And maybe that's a good thing. And it freezes up the possibility to block someone else. So we should have a back-up person to block if Trigardon is lynched.

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#431

Post by EscapedConvict »

Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:03 pm
EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:56 pm
And, yes, I am, I'm just trying to get your take on the matter.
I disregarded your suggestion (until you pointed to me) because I see no substance to it, and I see no way to fix it. The latter means I also think that trying to work out a successful "keep Moxy around so he can prove his NTA" strategy is a waste of time.

But you go out of your way to push people into your [again, bad] strategy. So now I have to point out how bad it is...

Just to be clear, keeping Moxy alive for a day or two longer is a reasonable suggestion worth considering. There are cons and pros to that decision (and likewise to a decision to lynch him). In contrast, claiming that Moxy can somehow "prove" his NTA to everyone publicly is the part of your suggestion that is non-sense, and requires to be called out as such.
Never said, Moxy can "prove" anything. Not sure where you got that from. Go back and re-read my post/posts.
I just said the town can benefit from his ability.
Last edited by EscapedConvict on Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#432

Post by Moxy »

That don’t make sense I’m in pole position to be lynched not Trig

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#433

Post by EscapedConvict »

Moxy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:10 pm
That don’t make sense I’m in pole position to be lynched not Trig
It's why I'm pushing to have people pitch in to the idea to keep you alive and use your ability.
We only have 6 hours left of Day 1.

Everyone that voted for Moxy: can we have you take please? and fast.

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#434

Post by Stringer »

Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:03 pm
Just to be clear, keeping Moxy alive for a day or two longer is a reasonable suggestion worth considering. There are cons and pros to that decision (and likewise to a decision to lynch him).
I would agree with this, I don't want to fall under influence of radwulfs blame-throwing and arguments along the lines of "omg lets lynch someone already" and "he has high votes already, why not finish him".
That's pushing for lynch, not for information. I don't trust intentions behind such a push.
Towny should push for information, to make informed decision, not push for a blind lynch.
Mafia would push to kill an innocent person at any excuse, however small.

Story wise, guard (or guards) should not be bad guys, as they are officially assigned personnel on a multi-national research station.
They should not just drop everything and obey order from China now, should they? We're talking single-state conspiracy here, not world-shadow-government conspiracy.

If there is indeed a 3rd faction, then, story wise, it too should be a covert one, not multinational people with publicly appointed enforcement roles. And "Security Chief" sounds pretty officially public to me.

If anything, I'd say we're gonna need muscles at some point, so we should not be in hurry to waste a resource that might yet become useful.
Last edited by Stringer on Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#435

Post by Moxy »

Noni wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:05 pm
Regarding moxy's messaging ability :
There is one thing that doesn't add up. He claims ppl Can reply to his messages but then says he things skuggi may not have replied cause the message wasn't signed.
- what is the point of signing the message, if there was a reply it would go through the mod, you would not need tu specify who you are answering to
That depends, in real world were this is just a game in a forum you would be right. But this is set in a fantasy world with real world mechanics, which is meant to be in the real world. So in the real world you send a message to someone without signing it or a return address how is the person meant to reply? That all I can guess at.

- skuggi claimed he received the message in the morning, so set the start of day one. How would a reply even be possible at this point?! Unless the messages are passed through the night back and forth, a reply cannot exist in the same night.
So why does someone who isn't mafia have the ability to have a dialogue during the night?! (note the difference between having a dialogue and just sending out a message)

Hope I've made this clear on paper as it is on my head :)
Maybe daemon sent it in the morning cause he knew skuggi couldn’t reply because I didn’t sign it. Like I said I don’t have these answers

But as far as I knew the reply could be same night.

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#436

Post by Rene »

I definitely do not believe Moxy can prove innocence by using their night time abilities. Especially the message one is definitely done for and its usefulness is buried underground at this point. Unless Moxy somehow miraculously manages to survive longer than a few days. But we can use the block. We can always use the block, we just need to decide on if we want to keep Moxy alive to be our blocker, and decide on how to use those blocks.
EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:07 pm
Rene wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:45 pm
Yeah, I don't really trust radwulf either. And blocking him could be good. But I find It better to block Trigardon to put a softlock on the ongoing events. We, as the town are, already thinking no deaths happened because Trigardon was blocked as a possibility. So what does that mean? It means 1.) Trigardon indeed is a mafioso equivalent that brutally kills at night, with the knife and stuff. But because we block him, nobody dies.

2.)Trigardon is innocent, and there's a murderer at loose because we blocked Trigardon, be it radwulf or whoever really, but sincewe're blocking Trigardon, they wouldn't want to attack. Because if they attack, Trigardon would have his innocence proved, at least to some degree. So that means one more person will survive tonight. No?

I just think it's the best possible option for us. But do tell, what else we can do with that block.
Good point but we also have to consider Tridardon is a townie and has a useful townie NTA. Blocking him would be to the town's detriment.

Maybe lynching Trigardon is inevitable today. And maybe that's a good thing. And it freezes up the possibility to block someone else. So we should have a back-up person to block if Trigardon is lynched.
I think even if Trigardon is innocent, blocking him and then seeing a kill would clear up his name (at least makes him less suspicious). If they pass on the chance to blame Trigardon, that means one more person lives. Which is why I think he's the best option, I don't think he'll get lynched either. But sure if you want radwulf to be the backup plan to block, I'd join you on that.
Noni wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:05 pm

Regarding moxy's messaging ability :
There is one thing that doesn't add up. He claims ppl Can reply to his messages but then says he things skuggi may not have replied cause the message wasn't signed.
- what is the point of signing the message, if there was a reply it would go through the mod, you would not need tu specify who you are answering to
- skuggi claimed he received the message in the morning, so set the start of day one. How would a reply even be possible at this point?! Unless the messages are passed through the night back and forth, a reply cannot exist in the same night.
So why does someone who isn't mafia have the ability to have a dialogue during the night?! (note the difference between having a dialogue and just sending out a message)
Actually the signing bit confused me as well, but I never realized Skuggi said they got the message in the morning. I think night dialogue can be an option with rules like jailors and mediums, so don't count it off but if Skuggi got the message at the morning, that makes either Moxy a sad liar... Or Skuggi a liar? Or finally Daemon a terrible terrible game mod! Please, show me where he said he got the message in the morning though. That's a game changer if it's true, and that'd be a really good find Noni. But do share it, because I couldn't find it on my own.

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#437

Post by Gridfon »

EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:10 pm
Never said, Moxy can "prove" anything. Not sure where you got that from. Go back and re-read my post/posts.
I just said the town can benefit from his ability.
I might be guilty of collating your sentiment with the more explicit suggestions of "proving" things as voiced by other people. But the general sentiment you express is still indefensible. You are saying the following:
EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:15 pm
Wouldn't it be wise to keep him around and we the town chose who to block every night?

The town would have that weapon. Even if Moxy is a psycho/traitor.
We use him to our benefit.
Doing this requires to develop a public trust in Moxy. That is impossible goal. You inevitably (even though implicitly) lead less experienced players into requesting that Moxy somehow "proves" his innocence.

And even if by some miracle we could get convinced that Moxy is a townie, mafia still have a lot more information than we do, and will be likely able to mess us our experiments (by interfering during night) so that Moxy's NTAs merely put suspicion on innocent people.

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#438

Post by EscapedConvict »

Rene wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:22 pm
I think even if Trigardon is innocent, blocking him and then seeing a kill would clear up his name (at least makes him less suspicious). If they pass on the chance to blame Trigardon, that means one more person lives. Which is why I think he's the best option, I don't think he'll get lynched either. But sure if you want radwulf to be the backup plan to block, I'd join you on that.
Very true. Might even be more valuable then any info Trigardon can gather by using his NTA (because there is a chance he could completely miss)

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#439

Post by valli »

Rene wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:22 pm
Actually the signing bit confused me as well, but I never realized Skuggi said they got the message in the morning. I think night dialogue can be an option with rules like jailors and mediums, so don't count it off but if Skuggi got the message at the morning, that makes either Moxy a sad liar... Or Skuggi a liar? Or finally Daemon a terrible terrible game mod! Please, show me where he said he got the message in the morning though. That's a game changer if it's true, and that'd be a really good find Noni. But do share it, because I couldn't find it on my own.
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#440

Post by Moxy »

I haven’t found it but I’m sure skuggi said he got it in the morning Rene. Like i said I don’t know why daemon sent it IN The morning. But like I said previous post maybe daemon sent it in the morning because skuggi couldn’t reply cause I didn’t sign it?

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#441

Post by valli »

Skuggi wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:30 pm
phox wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:05 pm
Also doesn't anyone find it odd that @Skuggi not only did not know he could answer back but also that he missed the very obvious clue @Moxy left in the end of one of his message? Maybe it's just a coincidence, but still.... "the clue" was really obvious and moxy claims that people can either choose to answer to his messages or not so then why would Trigardon say he didn't know, maybe he is hiding the fact that he didn't want to answer to the message? maybe it's just a wild thought
Since this has come up several times, I'll clarify. I received the message 'We're all in this together' in the (in-game) morning. You know, the one Daemon always tells us to check. The message was anonymous and there was no indication of a reply possibility - it was just a message.

As for the rest of Moxy's role I cannot say, although I did find it curious to have two active NTAs.
Here the text from Skuggi.

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#442

Post by EscapedConvict »

Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:25 pm
EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:10 pm
Never said, Moxy can "prove" anything. Not sure where you got that from. Go back and re-read my post/posts.
I just said the town can benefit from his ability.
I might be guilty of collating your sentiment with the more explicit suggestions of "proving" things as voiced by other people. But the general sentiment you express is still indefensible. You are saying the following:
EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:15 pm
Wouldn't it be wise to keep him around and we the town chose who to block every night?

The town would have that weapon. Even if Moxy is a psycho/traitor.
We use him to our benefit.
Doing this requires to develop a public trust in Moxy. That is impossible goal. You inevitably (even though implicitly) lead less experienced players into requesting that Moxy somehow "proves" his innocence.

And even if by some miracle we could get convinced that Moxy is a townie, mafia still have a lot more information than we do, and will be likely able to mess us our experiments (by interfering during night) so that Moxy's NTAs merely put suspicion on innocent people.
You're overthinking and overcomplicating what I said or what the action of using Moxy's ability implies.

It does not require trust in Moxy, because we as a town chose the target, not him.

We use Moxy to try to block the mafia from killing. Sure we could miss but at least we try by targeting a person that we collectively choose.

Then at any point in the game whenever we see fit, we can lynch Moxy and get rid of him.

As I asked radwulf (didn't get a response yet): As a town, what do we have to lose by doing so? Because we could have a lot to win.

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#443

Post by Moxy »

At what time was it sent skuggi? Did you receive it I. The morning or just check the emails in the morning ? I know I’m a dead man walking and this is my last few hours but I would like to know that info for personally sake...

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#444

Post by valli »

Moxy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:34 pm
At what time was it sent skuggi? Did you receive it I. The morning or just check the emails in the morning ? I know I’m a dead man walking and this is my last few hours but I would like to know that info for personally sake...
Read the message quoted above: (in-game) morning

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#445

Post by Gridfon »

Moxy, I asked you the same question in two different ways and you ignored both this far (all while answering easier but different questions by others). Care to respond?
Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:19 pm
The game obviously nudges you towards finding your security guards and figuring out why identifying them would benefit your faction (townies, traitors, or mafia - does not matter). In the perfect world, what could Skuggi respond to your message in order for you to be able to identify him as a security guard?

It just seems to me you could have build in subtle hints into your message that would help identifying the security guards, and it seems like you did a poor job at that.
Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:49 pm
@Moxy:
Was there any reasoning behind sending that exact message to Skuggi? I know you explained that revealing the existence of a "Security Team" to a random player would be bad, but there are many ways to be subtle and reveal little, yet maintain a chance to reap some benefits from your first night's NTA. What did you hope would happen in response to that message you sent to Skuggi?

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#446

Post by Moxy »

EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:32 pm
Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:25 pm
EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:10 pm
Never said, Moxy can "prove" anything. Not sure where you got that from. Go back and re-read my post/posts.
I just said the town can benefit from his ability.
I might be guilty of collating your sentiment with the more explicit suggestions of "proving" things as voiced by other people. But the general sentiment you express is still indefensible. You are saying the following:
EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:15 pm
Wouldn't it be wise to keep him around and we the town chose who to block every night?

The town would have that weapon. Even if Moxy is a psycho/traitor.
We use him to our benefit.
Doing this requires to develop a public trust in Moxy. That is impossible goal. You inevitably (even though implicitly) lead less experienced players into requesting that Moxy somehow "proves" his innocence.

And even if by some miracle we could get convinced that Moxy is a townie, mafia still have a lot more information than we do, and will be likely able to mess us our experiments (by interfering during night) so that Moxy's NTAs merely put suspicion on innocent people.
You're overthinking and overcomplicating what I said or what the action of using Moxy's ability implies.

It does not require trust in Moxy, because we as a town chose the target, not him.

We use Moxy to try to block the mafia from killing. Sure we could miss but at least we try by targeting a person that we collectively choose.

Then at any point in the game whenever we see fit, we can lynch Moxy and get rid of him.

As I asked radwulf (didn't get a response yet): As a town, what do we have to lose by doing so? Because we could have a lot to win.
You could but as a townie who isn’t I. My shoes I wouldn’t agree to that if I was in their shoes. So I don’t expect them too, I’m a dead man waking but when it’s revealed that I am townie please do t let radwulf and others go unanswered.

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#447

Post by radwulf »

Moxy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:00 pm
Well I would expect the healer to help me out.
...
Griff actually makes a fairly good point and I wouldn’t want to do anything that could risk the townie healer or another important townie come under fire by the mafia.
...in the same post.

This is why he shouldn't be allowed to live anymore. To eliminate the potential of misdirected townie night activities. If he is indeed evil as I'm certain, his death today will have the effect of much more efficient night targeting by the town.

Conversely, leaving him alive will make townie night targeting much more inefficient and uncertain.

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#448

Post by Moxy »

Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:35 pm
Moxy, I asked you the same question in two different ways and you ignored both this far (all while answering easier but different questions by others). Care to respond?
Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:19 pm
The game obviously nudges you towards finding your security guards and figuring out why identifying them would benefit your faction (townies, traitors, or mafia - does not matter). In the perfect world, what could Skuggi respond to your message in order for you to be able to identify him as a security guard?

It just seems to me you could have build in subtle hints into your message that would help identifying the security guards, and it seems like you did a poor job at that.
This was my idea yes. But like I said I didn’t want to reveal to much to skuggi on the first nights since I had no evidence or backing from day play to decide if the person I was messaging was trustworthy. Like I said to radwulf I would of been stuff like that after day one or two when I had a better idea of who’s who’s due to day time conversation. Plus I would of signed it also when I had more trust to the person I was sending the message too. So what you suggest is what I would of done tonight and next night.
Gridfon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:49 pm
@Moxy:
Was there any reasoning behind sending that exact message to Skuggi? I know you explained that revealing the existence of a "Security Team" to a random player would be bad, but there are many ways to be subtle and reveal little, yet maintain a chance to reap some benefits from your first night's NTA. What did you hope would happen in response to that message you sent to Skuggi?
Basically I decided that I would send a coded message and I could reveal if I got I trouble to let the people I had sent the messages too that I was the ones sending the message without mafia catching on. That was my thinking behind it anyway.

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#449

Post by Moxy »

radwulf wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:40 pm
Moxy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:00 pm
Well I would expect the healer to help me out.
...
Griff actually makes a fairly good point and I wouldn’t want to do anything that could risk the townie healer or another important townie come under fire by the mafia.
...in the same post.

This is why he shouldn't be allowed to live anymore. To eliminate the potential of misdirected townie night activities. If he is indeed evil as I'm certain, his death today will have the effect of much more efficient night targeting by the town.

Conversely, leaving him alive will make townie night targeting much more inefficient and uncertain.
That should of been I would have by bad

But your attacking me for saying The healer shouldn’t risk it... now that’s taking the bus quit mate well done

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#450

Post by Gridfon »

EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:32 pm
It does not require trust in Moxy, because we as a town chose the target, not him.
There are a lot degrees of freedom here. We don't know whether Moxy will actually follow our orders. Even if he does, any non-townie faction will interfere with Moxy's NTA as soon as it becomes beneficial to them.
EscapedConvict wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:32 pm
We use Moxy to try to block the mafia from killing. Sure we could miss but at least we try by targeting a person that we collectively choose.
How can Moxy block the mafia killing?
1. Mafia players usually designate the one to carry out the kill, and they can choose a mafia member who is not blocked.
2. According to Moxy's description of his role, it seems he blocks only the outgoing NTAs of his target, but he does not block other people from choosing the same target for their NTAs. At least that is my take on it; I voiced it and no one disagreed with me on that. Do you disagree with me on that?
3. Even if Moxy could block all incoming and outgoing NTAs, you told that we as townies choose the target, so obviously mafia are aware of it and will simply not target the same person for a kill.

Again, I'm not saying that we should lynch Moxy today. But I see no merit to your exact justification of why Moxy is beneficial.

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