Mafia 1 - The CROWN - GAME OVER!

[EscapedConvict]

yeah, elaborate @Clemens

[phox]

I would like to hear @Gridfon 's opinion most regarding blissie. What about the opinion of our lovely "4 guests"?

[Gridfon]

Did we lynch a townie or a baddie?

Certainly not mafia, since it is not "Infected". May be a baddie.

The hammer's death clues imply maintenance, though.

Perhaps both the hammer's death and the mandatory cleaning ability both belong to the same player? These could be one-off abilities.

The "another martyr" thing might imply that somone's role got now activated ... I could imagine that ...

So you're saying Nanaa has been telling the truth, and perhaps now he can update us on his role?

[Noni]

So to me maintenance=evil (otherwise they would be very irresponsible for not hanging on to their tools and letting other people use them for nefarious things)

That would fit with the Infected Gardner role as well then.
But then do they have two methods of killing?

Makes no sense to me @Clemens , anybody can have tools depending on the domain they work in, Gardeners don't have hammers, do they?

i'm with clemens on this one. maintenance must be bad based on the hammer kill and infected gardner

[Clemens]

Makes no sense to me @Clemens , anybody can have tools depending on the domain they work in, Gardeners don't have hammers, do they?

No, but they have other tools - garden maintenance tools, for example.

[valli]

So to me maintenance=evil (otherwise they would be very irresponsible for not hanging on to their tools and letting other people use them for nefarious things)

That would fit with the Infected Gardner role as well then.
But then do they have two methods of killing?

Makes no sense to me @Clemens , anybody can have tools depending on the domain they work in, Gardeners don't have hammers, do they?

I would say it is not the most typical tool a gardener is using and usually the roles are stereotypes and I think the more important part of that role name is the "Infected" ...

[Clemens]

I would say it is not the most typical tool a gardener is using and usually the roles are stereotypes and I think the more important part of that role name is the "Infected" ...

But which Mafia player would admit to having "Infected" in their role name?

[Noni]

That would fit with the Infected Gardner role as well then.
But then do they have two methods of killing?

Makes no sense to me @Clemens , anybody can have tools depending on the domain they work in, Gardeners don't have hammers, do they?

I would say it is not the most typical tool a gardener is using and usually the roles are stereotypes and I think the more important part of that role name is the "Infected" ...

they don't have to be the same person just on the same team

[Gridfon]

i'm with clemens on this one. maintenance must be bad based on the hammer kill and infected gardner

Do you imply that is it the Infected Gardener who insisted on doing the Mandatory Maintenance in Joesatri's room? That just does not match.

[phox]

Makes no sense to me @Clemens , anybody can have tools depending on the domain they work in, Gardeners don't have hammers, do they?

I would say it is not the most typical tool a gardener is using and usually the roles are stereotypes and I think the more important part of that role name is the "Infected" ...

they don't have to be the same person just on the same team

yep , I could see a Gardner being part of the maintenance, why not, he could help maintaining the props or the greenhouses they have around there with his tools

[behemoth]

@behemoth please humor us and offer your take on @blissie and his role

I don't like the fact that you're avoiding that subject

Not avoiding it, it's just that I don't have much of a take. I can't read Daemon's mind, not yet, and I have no theories on how the flat earther/conspiracy theorist may be a good/evil fit within the universe of the game (though I do think the terrorist proposition is interesting).

But I stand by my vote and the fact that he acted very suspiciously. Both Blissie and Nanaa were on the radwulf bandwagon, Blissie casting one of the early votes and Nanaa being one of the last three. Regardless of their role title, they both played suspiciously and have voting patterns indicative of anti-town behavior. So right now even if their role were to be called "blue lagoon" or "distinguished researcher/professor emeritus", they would have my suspicions all the same based on their actions not being pro-town. Now, the fact that there is an actual correlation between their roles serves to strengthen my conviction that both of them are no bueno.

[Noni]

i'm with clemens on this one. maintenance must be bad based on the hammer kill and infected gardner

Do you imply that is it the Infected Gardener who insisted on doing the Mandatory Maintenance in Joesatri's room? That just does not match.

no i didn't imply that. i agreed that the maintenance roles are bad based on 1. the gardner being infected, 2. the hammer kill and daemons story about it

[Emilly]

@behemoth please humor us and offer your take on @blissie and his role

I don't like the fact that you're avoiding that subject

Not avoiding it, it's just that I don't have much of a take. I can't read Daemon's mind, not yet, and I have no theories on how the flat earther/conspiracy theorist may be a good/evil fit within the universe of the game (though I do think the terrorist proposition is interesting).

But I stand by my vote and the fact that he acted very suspiciously. Both Blissie and Nanaa were on the radwulf bandwagon, Blissie casting one of the early votes and Nanaa being one of the last three. Regardless of their role title, they both played suspiciously and have voting patterns indicative of anti-town behavior. So right now even if their role were to be called "blue lagoon" or "distinguished researcher/professor emeritus", they would have my suspicions all the same based on their actions not being pro-town. Now, the fact that there is an actual correlation between their roles serves to strengthen my conviction that both of them are no bueno.

I agree with @behemoth

[EscapedConvict]

To me the people that are not talking about @blissie 's role right look very suspect (i.e @behemoth and @Heffie , especiqlly since both live on the north American continent so they have no "i' was sleeping" excuse right now)

[EscapedConvict]

@behemoth , just saw your post (I still don't like the fact that you needed to be pushed to talk about it)
You're usually more constructive then that.

[valli]

So you're saying Nanaa has been telling the truth, and perhaps now he can update us on his role?

Might be possible, the text heavily suggest another martyr ... I remember that we had in previous games roles, which were supposed of getting activated once certain conditions arised. I could imagine our mod of putting such mechanisms in again.

However whether it is Nanaa or someone else is at the moment impossible to say. If Nanaa's role name is correct and he is a theorist then I would imagine that he has some problems doing practical things, i.e. getting after town ...

@Gridfon The martyr thing ... doesn't that imply that the person must be killed or suffer greatly. So wouldn't that mean that something will happen once we vote that person of / or the person is killed?

[behemoth]

@behemoth , just saw your post (I still don't like the fact that tou needed to be pushed to talk about it)
You're usually more constructive then that.

If I wouldn't be in the middle of my work day right now maybe I'd have the time to be even more constructive. But, from a practical standpoint, I still don't think it impacts our proposed course of action - i.e., kill Siderite before we come back to you and Mary, because 1) he is not contributing anything useful to the game even if he stays alive until the very last day and 2) if we instant lynch him now we can at least gain some objective insight into his role, which may possibly fill in some of the missing pieces about Blissie and Nanaa's role.

But the bottom line that I would like to call out again is that all 3 of these individuals have not acted pro-town, and we gain more insight by lynching Siderite than keeping him alive.

[Emilly]

My opinion is that there are 3 different groups:
1. the mafia, those who are infected (Silvextru)
2. psycho with hammer
3. conspiracy theorists who do not kill at night but voting. They will probably win if they stay alive. I think that @blissie and @Nanaa are part of this group.

[Skuggi]

Gah, I'm away for a few hours and there are already several pages to read through and we've lynched @blissie. And several people went right on to vote for the next person without even considering what was just done.

Blissie's role definitely looks suspect, and doesn't really fit in with the scientists. He seems likely to be 3rd faction (or psycho) and fits well with Nanaa's claimed role of Conspiracy Theorist, which suddenly looks a lot more plausible. Judging from the conversation in Daemon's post, they could be intending sabotage or something like that. Regardless, 3rd factions generally count as townies when it comes down to the numbers, right?

[Siderite]

Guys, this is getting us nowhere. My role is not something that I can prove, but it would become pointless if divulged. My NTA is passive, as well. Either lynch me or don't lynch me, kill me or don't kill me. But consider this: we lost what, four five townies already? And now there are third groups and fourth groups? Doesn't that mean that the Mafia, working together, is getting more and more powerful? The behavior is obvious: mob of people lynching everybody else. I have nothing more to say. Also, this game is using a lot of time I don't really have. Life had just begun, but now I've gone and thrown it all away.

unvote Siderite
vote Noni

[EscapedConvict]

And posaibly @Siderite with all his gibberish. Would fit

[EscapedConvict]

. Regardless, 3rd factions generally count as townies when it comes down to the numbers, right?

Not necessarily if the 3 factions are balanced.
Whichever faction wins, they win the game. So they would not be townies.

[EscapedConvict]

Guys, this is getting us nowhere. My role is not something that I can prove, but it would become pointless if divulged. My NTA is passive, as well. Either lynch me or don't lynch me, kill me or don't kill me. But consider this: we lost what, four five townies already? And now there are third groups and fourth groups? Doesn't that mean that the Mafia, working together, is getting more and more powerful? The behavior is obvious: mob of people lynching everybody else. I have nothing more to say. Also, this game is using a lot of time I don't really have. Life had just begun, but now I've gone and thrown it all away.

unvote Siderite
vote Noni

Alright I'm done. This seals it for me.
Thanks for helping me make up my mind.

Vote siderite

[phox]

@Siderite has become coherent again. Give me one good reason, and I will withdraw my vote, seriously, just one little thing that might help.

[Clemens]

Regardless, 3rd factions generally count as townies when it comes down to the numbers, right?

Sort of, that's my concern and why figuring this out is important.
(The exact count and balance is only known by the mod.)
Lynching all the conspirators would then be counter-productive while Mafia are still plentiful in number.

[phox]

Regardless, 3rd factions generally count as townies when it comes down to the numbers, right?

Sort of, that's my concern and why figuring this out is important.
(The exact count and balance is only known by the mod.)
Lynching all the conspirators would then be counter-productive while Mafia are still plentiful in number.

I agree, Sander and Nanna are not such a high priority in this case.

[EscapedConvict]

Regardless, 3rd factions generally count as townies when it comes down to the numbers, right?

Sort of, that's my concern and why figuring this out is important.
(The exact count and balance is only known by the mod.)
Lynching all the conspirators would then be counter-productive while Mafia are still plentiful in number.

Definitely not counter productive if the conspirators are their own faction that also want to win the game by getting rid of both the townies and the mafia.

[Clemens]

The one time he starts making some sense,

Doesn't that mean that the Mafia, working together, is getting more and more powerful? The behavior is obvious: mob of people lynching everybody else. I have nothing more to say.

and it's a suicide-esque post.

Also, this game is using a lot of time I don't really have. Life had just begun, but now I've gone and thrown it all away.

unvote Siderite
vote Noni

[Clemens]

Definitely not counter productive if the conspirators are their own faction that also want to win the game by getting rid of both the townies and the mafia.

Only if the numbers are balanced accordingly, e.g. less Mafia and therefore an equally small conspirator faction.
With neither side being counted towards townies for end-of-day victory conditions.

[EscapedConvict]

Definitely not counter productive if the conspirators are their own faction that also want to win the game by getting rid of both the townies and the mafia.

Only if the numbers are balanced accordingly, e.g. less Mafia and therefore an equally small conspirator faction.
With neither side being counted towards townies for end-of-day victory conditions.

Exactly, see my post #1622

[Clemens]

Alright, let's try this a slightly different way.
People that voted for blissie:
Noni, EC, Mary, ruxi, phox, Clemens, Rene, behemoth, Emilly, zero, valli

Let's see what each individual thinks about blissie's role and death clues.
Because it's largely the same people that instantly jumped onto Siderite bandwagon without much care about the actual result of lynching blissie.
Siderite: 6 ruxi, valli, behemoth, Emilly, phox, Noni (EC unvoted again)

[phox]

Alright, let's try this a slightly different way.
People that voted for blissie:
Noni, EC, Mary, ruxi, phox, Clemens, Rene, behemoth, Emilly, zero, valli

Let's see what each individual thinks about blissie's role and death clues.
Because it's largely the same people that instantly jumped onto Siderite bandwagon without much care about the actual result of lynching blissie.
Siderite: 6 ruxi, valli, behemoth, Emilly, phox, Noni (EC unvoted again)

and then he revoted again so I believe siderite has 7 now.

[Clemens]

and then he revoted again so I believe siderite has 7 now.

You're right, I missed that.

[phox]

To be honest I am more interested in Telvek than in siderite. Siderite is the king of jibberish but at least he is consistent, Telvek was making no sense today , see @valli's posts from earlier with his summary

[EscapedConvict]

@Telvek is a good candidate also, I agree

If you get enough votes I might join

[Noni]

i think siderite has 8. am i wrong?
Valli, Noni, EscapedConvict, Heffie, Phox, Princess.ruxi, Behemoth, Emilly

[Noni]

Alright, let's try this a slightly different way.
People that voted for blissie:
Noni, EC, Mary, ruxi, phox, Clemens, Rene, behemoth, Emilly, zero, valli

Let's see what each individual thinks about blissie's role and death clues.
Because it's largely the same people that instantly jumped onto Siderite bandwagon without much care about the actual result of lynching blissie.
Siderite: 6 ruxi, valli, behemoth, Emilly, phox, Noni (EC unvoted again)

clemens i already said what i think about blissie's role. i also said i am happy to unvote if that's the best course of action for the town. i think most of us were going along with the plan we all made previously. i genuinely don't think the flat earthers are pro town.

[Clemens]

People that voted for blissie:
Noni, EC, Mary, ruxi, phox, Clemens, Rene, behemoth, Emilly, zero, valli

With what limited information we have, my ongoing theory would be:

• Maintenance is Mafia, they kill by infecting (1-day delayed death theory) and with tools (depending on which of them does it, a different role-specific tool is probably used)

• Conspirators are a third faction, and I wish to believe they are not pro-town. But I cannot in clear conscience vote them off over Mafia, in case that harms our "-vs Mafia" numbers more.

• I am unsure if psycho exists, but there would be no need for one if conspirators fill that kind of role already.

• I don't think a vigilante is responsible for the hammer kill.

[Noni]

i think siderite has 8. am i wrong?
Valli, Noni, EscapedConvict, Heffie, Phox, Princess.ruxi, Behemoth, Emilly

@phox can you double check pls?

[Clemens]

i think siderite has 8. am i wrong?
Valli, Noni, EscapedConvict, Heffie, Phox, Princess.ruxi, Behemoth, Emilly

vote:siderite

You're right. Someone else do the counting.
Too focused on theories to watch for votes.

[Emilly]

My opinion is that there are 3 different groups:
1. the mafia, those who are infected (Silvextru)
2. psycho with hammer
3. conspiracy theorists who do not kill at night but voting. They will probably win if they stay alive. I think that @blissie and @Nanaa are part of this group.

[Heffie]

same goes for @Heffie

See my earlier post #1583 I was the first one to suggest the trio of crazies which everyone pretty much repeated afterwards more or less. What did you want me to add?

[Clemens]

3. conspiracy theorists who do not kill at night but voting. They will probably win if they stay alive. I think that @blissie and @Nanaa are part of this group.

But do you think they count as townies for Mafia's victory condition?
Mafia win if Mafia > Townies + Conspirators?

[phox]

i think siderite has 8. am i wrong?
Valli, Noni, EscapedConvict, Heffie, Phox, Princess.ruxi, Behemoth, Emilly

@phox can you double check pls?

great, now I have become the vote counting slave #yayMe
Ruxi, Valli, Behemoth, Emily, Phox, Noni, Heffie, EC voted for Siderite meaning 8 votes
I am most likely going for telvek so you won't see my vote there probably, haven't decided yet

[Noni]

3. conspiracy theorists who do not kill at night but voting. They will probably win if they stay alive. I think that @blissie and @Nanaa are part of this group.

But do you think they count as townies for Mafia's victory condition?
Mafia win if Mafia > Townies + Conspirators?

i think that may be the case but you have to think about whether they will create more confusion in the town making it harder to find out who the mafia is. playing in an erratic suspicious way and having nta's that disrupt the game or hinder the town will only benefit mafia in the end in my opinion

[Noni]

i think siderite has 8. am i wrong?
Valli, Noni, EscapedConvict, Heffie, Phox, Princess.ruxi, Behemoth, Emilly

@phox can you double check pls?

great, now I have become the vote counting slave #yayMe
Ruxi, Valli, Behemoth, Emily, Phox, Noni, Heffie, EC voted for Siderite meaning 8 votes
I am most likely going for telvek so you won't see my vote there probably, haven't decided yet

let's discuss before changing votes. there isn't the danger of instant lynch right now and it will just make it easier to keep track of the votes rather than going back and forth

[phox]

3. conspiracy theorists who do not kill at night but voting. They will probably win if they stay alive. I think that @blissie and @Nanaa are part of this group.

But do you think they count as townies for Mafia's victory condition?
Mafia win if Mafia > Townies + Conspirators?

I say we shouldn't risk finding out today. we already lynched a conpiracy loco dude , let's go for mafia now, one down from each faction.
@Siderite's type does not seem to represent a character of the mafia type, more likely the crazy type. unvote Siderite
And let's see about Telvek. vote Telvek
@EscapedConvict or anyone else do you agree with this idea?

Now @Siderite has 7 votes @Noni

[Emilly]

I think that only one group can win. Conspiracy theorists are probably the ones who convince us who to vote for, because that's the only way they can win. They do not vote for each other but vote for anyone else. And I don't think there are more than 2 or 3 in the game.

[Heffie]

I'm a bit confused, what would we be achieving at this point by switching all our votes from siderite to telvek? Both are randomly voting people and not wanting to use logic or reasoning to help the town.

[Noni]

I think that only one group can win. Conspiracy theorists are probably the ones who convince us who to vote for, because that's the only way they can win. They do not vote for each other but vote for anyone else. And I don't think there are more than 2 or 3 in the game.

yes but do they count as townies? it would be incredibly hard for a group of 2 or 3 to win on their own against townie and mafia