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radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 778
(9/10/02 10:32:11 am)
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MAFIA 10
Rules:
- Don't discuss the game outside the message board! (Certain roles are exempt from this, but they are only allowed to talk at night.)
- You are not allowed to show anyone an email from me or another player!
- Participate! If you are absent (without announcing it in advance) for a game "day" or more, I will try to find a replacement for you; if after two game "days" I can't find a replacement, your role will be terminated.
- In the subject field of your message, please write the correct post number--edit it if you made a mistake. This will greatly help the quoting.
- Editing of posts is allowed on an honor system: only edit for spelling errors & post number.
- Use of bold is mandatory (and restricted) to voting/unvoting--brunchmafia style. Use underlining or CAPS for emphasis, fingers of suspicions, screaming etc.
- Ask! If you're not sure about some rule, email me first before acting.

________________________________________________________________________________
The Living (2) :

JEEP (godfather)
WONKO THE SANE (townie with bullet-proof vest)
________________________________________________________________________________
The Dead (14) :

DORLUN (townie) - shot by the Mafia; night 2
STARMANDELUXEEB (mafia) - drowned in sink by the psychopath; night 2
NEO (med student) - lynched by townies; day 2
AHRI (mayor) - shot by the Mafia; night 3
007 (doctor) - strangulated by the psychopath, shot by vigilante; night 3
BEONEKNIGHT (gunshop owner) - shot by the Mafia; night 4
NEEDFORSPEED (townie) - drowned in bathtub by the psychopath; night 4
BLUEEYES (mafia) - drowned by the townies; day 4
JOESATRI (psychopath & mafia instigator) - shot by the Mafia; night 5
AXETIL (private investigator) - shot by vigilante; night 5
DIPLOMAT (cop) - lynched by townies; day 5
CAPTAIN BLICERO (vigilante) - shot by Mafia; night 6
ORNAMENTAL CABBAGE (cop) - lynched by townies; day 6
ANDREEAHEF (gunshop helper) - shot by Mafia; night 7
________________________________________________________________________________

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at.

Edited by: radwulf at: 11/4/02 11:56:49 am
radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 782
(9/12/02 7:00:06 am)
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1
It turns out this town may be more peaceful than expected; all its residents wake up alive and well. However, there are some that believe something must be done about the rumors of evil activity in the town, before something unpleasant actually happens.

Nobody has been killed, it is now day! 9 votes are required for lynching, or plurality at the deadline (provided the leading candidate has more than 1/3 of the votes).

NEEDFORSPEED is replacing ADY!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/12/02 10:09:05 am
jeep
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 38
(9/12/02 7:57:06 am)
208.151.245.167
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2
vote: CAPTAIN BLICERO because discer picked 7.

-JEEP

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 442
(9/12/02 9:35:33 am)
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#3
not ur dice again , jeep :)

nice played last night, doc(s)!

in this case if we only knew there was just one doc , that one doc would have a confirmed innocent man since somebody was saved last night...but most likely we have more docs...witch is not a bad thing...we just ain't got to many clues after last night...

these are my little toughts for now...

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: 007 at: 9/12/02 9:36:38 am
needforspeed
unregistered user
(9/12/02 9:55:41 am)
172.150.28.24
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4 - please put message nr in subject
Hi everyone. Mersi radwulf... just hang in there.
CIAO:
LACI
:parete

[ There are players who don't speak Romanian at all! Please make sure you only use English! -- radwulf ]

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/12/02 10:10:54 am
jeep
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 39
(9/12/02 10:13:27 am)
208.151.245.167
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5
Have I used dice before? And this wasn't dice, it was asking someone for a number...

Besides, what else does someone with no investigative powers have to go on day 1, post 1?

-JEEP

Needforspeed
unregistered user
(9/12/02 10:38:00 am)
172.150.28.24
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6
Hi Jeep. Listen if you wrote message No. 5 in anger toward me let me know. what i wrote was not intended to harm anyone, basically i just wanted all to know that i was created w/thin the last 24 hours.
Peace:
NFS
;)

joesatri
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 46
(9/12/02 10:45:28 am)
80.24.10.3
| Del
7
Mornin' folks...
i am actually writing this in the morning..
I think it's great that noone got killed last night.
When i first started playin' mafia, i thought this is one of the most unfair things than can happen' to someone.. to die in the 1st night.. :)
Well.. we're all alive and well.. so let's start diggin' for the scums!


:.:.: [delirious] :.:.: the power always comes from above :.:.:

Neo
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 44
(9/12/02 4:16:53 pm)
206.52.252.49
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8
Eeeny meeny miney moe....

Vote Wonko

Needforspeed001
registered user (0)
Posts: 1
(9/12/02 7:10:30 pm)
168.26.195.111
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9
alright, im in

CIAO: Keep the rubber side down. A.K.A. Speedevil. Be a safe driver!

axetil
unregistered user
(9/12/02 10:07:29 pm)
128.248.172.223
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10 not intended to be a direct response

...then let the voting begin! But in the meantime, please be patient with me - I use plastic logic distorted by a dry sense of humor.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/12/02 11:22:41 pm
Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 27
(9/12/02 11:52:35 pm)
128.6.180.11
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11
Hey everyone. I really have no idea what to do, so I'll just look and listen. And I'll keep in mind that we either have a very lucky doc, multiple docs, or a mafia fam that didn't submit a choice, which I would think is unlikely (but which has probably happened before). I also doubt the existence of a serial killer, unless he has limits on his kills (either numerical limit, or only kill on even days, etc).

So after all that Crap-Logic(tm) we really know nothing.

No voting by me just yet. My finger of suspicion likewise rests unused for a while.

BlueEyes
unregistered user
(9/13/02 12:34:06 am)
64.12.96.135
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12
Good Morning Everybody!
I agree with Wonko the Sane that we have really good docs. I don't have enough clues to point the finger yet, but my gut feeling is that Joesatri is mafia because of his comments. Thats all for now.

-Blue Eyes

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(9/13/02 1:25:28 am)
68.40.40.141
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13 Well, good morning...
Vote: 007. Semi-random.

So, how goes it all? Allow me to introduce myself. I'm a cabbage...who...is...ornamental. Yeah. Anyway.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/13/02 3:01:47 am
StarmanDeluxeEB
centura alba (1)
Posts: 2
(9/13/02 1:31:12 am)
66.75.3.96
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14
Well, we either have good doctors or a lazy mafia family ;)

I'm gonna hold off on my vote. Need to... Watch you all some more :D

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/13/02 3:02:28 am
Needforspeed001
centura alba (1)
Posts: 2
(9/13/02 2:49:25 am)
168.26.195.43
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15
Good evening all. i must say i have mixed fealings about who's who as of yet, but i must say that i am leaning towards Jeep, being one of the bad guys. I might be completely wrong but then again, if you read his messages it definately sounds bad.
'nough said:

VOTE JEEP
:albpengr

CIAO: Keep the rubber side down. A.K.A. Speedevil. Be a safe driver!

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/13/02 3:02:38 am
radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 787
(9/13/02 3:06:41 am)
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16
In order to put your vote in bold, use the following syntax:
[b]vote: scum[/b]

You can quote using:
[quote]stuff someone said[/quote]

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at.

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 28
(9/13/02 3:49:14 am)
12.251.237.8
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17
I don't think that the doc actually saving anyone on the first night is probable. I'm leaning toward that the mafia either chose not to kill anyone or forgot to send in a choice, probably the former.
FOS: 007
FOS: BlueEyes

...for claiming that we have good docs.

StarmanDeluxeEB
centura alba (1)
Posts: 3
(9/13/02 4:50:32 am)
66.75.3.96
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18
I don't see anything wrong with clamiming we have good doctors... I wouldn't get suspicious of someone simply for saying that.

Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
Posts: 2
(9/13/02 5:14:37 am)
129.94.198.238
| Del
Re: 19
OMGUS jeep

FOS: Diplomat for being suspicious of people who claim that we have good docs.

StarmanDeluxeEB
centura alba (1)
Posts: 4
(9/13/02 5:25:31 am)
66.75.3.96
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20
I'm suspicious of Diplomat at this point.

Vote: Diplomat A

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/13/02 5:52:46 am
007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 443
(9/13/02 6:42:42 am)
12.249.83.11
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21
Quote:
vote :007 semi-random
...OC

oh well, my friend u gonna have to explain this now! semi-random?? are u claiming an investigative role?...or u're just a poor scum who's got nothing else to do but trying to lynch as many innocent peolple as he can? :hmm


Quote:
I don't think that the doc actually saving anyone on the first night is probable. I'm leaning toward that the mafia either chose not to kill anyone or forgot to send in a choice, probably the former.
FOS: 007
FOS: BlueEyes
...for claiming that we have good docs.
...diplomat

wow...interesting point of wiew , diplomat to bad it stinks like mafia!..what do u mean first of all that its improbable that the docs would save the first night...w00t? u crazy or something?? how in the world would think something like that??...and belive me the first night no mafia family 'in the world"(meaning on the mafia boards :) ) would miss the kill! think a little bit...oh well maybe u don't have to, too much...maybe u're just trying hard to find people to pick on...and hopefully lucky enough to lynch someone innocent!
and second of all. me and BLUEYES weren't the only ones saying that thing about the docs( witch by the way is the most probable thing that happened last night...from townies point of wiew ofcourse...the "scums" have other interests)...there was WONKO and STARMANDELUXE also...so judging by ur thinking they sould have gotten an fos too! hmm...interesting to KEEP THIIS IN MIND, too!

so ,for now i'll work on these two "projects" (didn't mean to be disrespectfull)

fos: ornamentalcabagge & diplomat

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: 007 at: 9/13/02 6:48:06 am
Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 29
(9/13/02 7:34:07 am)
12.251.237.8
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22
All I'm saying is that it's much more likely that the mafia didn't kill last night than the doc picking the same person as the mafia. It happens often in radwulf's games for some reason. The mafia could just say that to mislead the town. The reason I didn't FOS the other two people is that they mentioned both possibilities for no kill last night.

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 30
(9/13/02 7:37:57 am)
12.251.237.8
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23
Oh yeah, of course I'm looking for people to pick on. That's how you cause the mafia to make mistakes and get caught.

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 445
(9/13/02 7:45:42 am)
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24
oh yeah , diplomat...all u got to do is use real logic not CRAP LOGIC....when u use the second one so early in the game and so decisive its more likely u are not a good guy!

superficiality and ambiguity equals mafia scum...or a less experienced newbie!
since u're not the a less experienced newbie, as i know u...what's left?

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: 007 at: 9/13/02 7:52:15 am
andreeahef
centura alba (1)
Posts: 3
(9/13/02 8:41:17 am)
24.69.255.204
| Del
25 - please put message number in subject
HEY Y'all,
It's about time I got inot this game,eh?
WEll,this is my first time so please excuse me if I happen to say something totally stupid or out of the ordinary,I don't know why I'm saying that anyway cause I'm probably being suspicious by it,hehehhehe JK.So I'm going to hang back for awhile and see how this thing works and who says what now!

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/13/02 8:42:24 am
jeep
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 40
(9/13/02 9:06:36 am)
208.151.245.167
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26
Needforspeed: I wasn't replying to your message, I was replying to the message above yours where someone made a comment about me using dice.

However, I've changed my mind.
unvote: CAPTAIN BLICERO
vote: Wonko


I want Wonko lynched because he proclaimed that he was using Crap Logic. Either he doesn't understand the term or he is claiming to be mafia. I know he's played in other mafia games, so I suspect it's the latter. Maybe he is a traitor or some other mafia that is seperate from his family and was trying to drop a hint to his family...

For everyone else, Crap Logic is logic that sounds appealing, but is false. It's very different than bad logic.

-JEEP

BlueEyes
unregistered user
(9/13/02 3:04:41 pm)
152.163.189.232
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27
Vote: Diplomat

Fos- Baggering people on speculating the events of the previous night. :akm

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 28
(9/13/02 10:01:51 pm)
128.6.180.11
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28
Well Jeep, in my defense I must say that I thought Crap Logic was just what it sounds like....bad logic. And I was merely making the point that this early on in the game there are so many unknowns that any logic one uses to make an "educated" guess is obviously bad (ie. crappy) logic because there is no logic system in the world that can lead to a good educated guess with as little information as we have....or at least as I had when I made the statement (my statement was made before a substantial amount discussion from which some inferences can perhaps be made). I've only played in one other mafia game, and the mafia definition of Crap Logic was not made clear.
Furthermore, if I really knew that, as jeep says, Crap Logic was a tool used strictly by evil characters, would I just come out like that and proclaim my evilness?
My pinkies of suspicion point to Captain Blicero and Starman Deluxe. Diplomat's contention that it's silly to be saying we have good doc(s) [which is absolutely correct, because if anything the docs are lucky, not "good"] brought an immediate FOS and vote by Captain and Starman. Now boys I understand that bongo lines are fun, but only in tropical bars where drinks and chicas are aplenty.
Finally, I plan to play this game in a more laid back way than my other game. More observation and thinking before acting. I tried the anal-retentive approach, and found that it can lead to mistakes. And what I've seen so far in this town is a lot of anal retention for this early on in the game. But that's just me.

axetil
unregistered user
(9/13/02 10:27:19 pm)
128.248.170.148
| Del
29
In response to 12 by BLUEEYES: WONKO never said
Quote:
"we have really good docs"
, and what about what JOESATRI said made you suspect him? You seem to be coming to quick conclusions about people without reading what they've written too carefully. Are you trying to expediate the voting process?

To Jeep in his no. 26: What about WANKO 'proclaiming' to use Crap-Logic(tm) makes you assume that he's either mafia, or that he doesn't know what it means? Personally, I took it as a joke, and it seems kind of odd to me that you'd use this as evidence...

To me, the strangest thing that I've noticed so far is that RADWULF was editing postings between 3:00 and 6:00am... (see no.'s 13, 14, 15, and 20) :)

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/13/02 11:13:55 pm
axetil
unregistered user
(9/13/02 10:28:58 pm)
128.248.170.148
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30
looks like WONKO and I were posting at the same time... my last posting can be 28.5

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/13/02 11:14:18 pm
radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 790
(9/13/02 11:21:33 pm)
12.248.23.34
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31
Quote:
To me, the strangest thing that I've noticed so far is that RADWULF was editing postings between 3:00 and 6:00am... (see no.'s 13, 14, 15, and 20)


...out of nowhere, lightning strikes Axetil dead... just kidding :) That's Romanian time, Carl (GMT +3).


Vote Count! please report any errors
wonko 2 - neo, jeep
diplomat 2 - starmandeluxeeb, blueeyes
007 1 - ornamental cabbage
jeep 1 - needforspeed

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at.

StarmanDeluxeEB
centura alba (1)
Posts: 5
(9/13/02 11:30:31 pm)
209.66.192.96
| Del
32
Wonko, if you think to much you'll never get anywhere ;)

---------------------------------------

Teshara
Mon Calamari Diplomat/Ambassador
Dark City Office
Pax Imperius


At your service!

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/14/02 2:10:44 am
Dorlun
registered user (0)
Posts: 1
(9/14/02 12:56:39 am)
68.22.198.113
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33
As I usually do, I'll be abstaining from vote in the first day...and can someone tell me what fos stands for? (I'm completely new to forum based mafia btw).

W.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/14/02 2:10:54 am
Ahri
unregistered user
(9/14/02 1:01:27 am)
172.131.117.42
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34
wow, well, I'm here and I'm a newbie so I'm just going to hang back and watch for a bit.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/14/02 2:11:12 am
StarmanDeluxeEB
centura alba (1)
Posts: 6
(9/14/02 3:54:48 am)
66.75.3.96
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35
FOS Stands for Finger of Suspicion. Essentially, someone is suspicious of someone, but not enough so to vote for them.

andreeahef
centura alba (1)
Posts: 5
(9/14/02 5:08:59 am)
24.69.255.204
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36 Mornin' everyone!!!
I dont' really know what to say yet,confusion has found its place permanently for me,but I'll still sit back and watch attentively...
Thanks for the FOS definition by the way!
There are a few people that are acting suspicious,but I'm not going to name any names yet, as they might have simply not been careful enough with what they've said, so keep taht in mind as well.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/14/02 9:54:01 am
StarmanDeluxeEB
centura alba (1)
Posts: 7
(9/14/02 6:05:12 am)
66.75.3.96
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37
Eh, OK. My suspicions have subsided.

Unvote: Diplomat A

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(9/14/02 7:08:50 am)
68.40.40.141
| Del
38 lalala
Not sure what I think yet. More later.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/14/02 9:54:14 am
beoneknight
centura alba (1)
Posts: 10
(9/14/02 7:45:38 am)
172.150.31.86
| Del
39
Hey, just checking in, i'm getting my permanent internet connection on the 19th, so till then i'm not gonna be a very frequent poster. Not to change the subject or anything, but is there a story line to this game? Anyways, does anyone think that we might have 2 mafia families with them having an immunity against a night kill by the other family or something like that?, or is it just too much speculation on my part?
I really want to give someone an FOS or to vote for someone but its a bit early, and i'm not at all good at random guessing in the early rounds.

Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
Posts: 3
(9/14/02 8:04:17 am)
129.94.19.100
| Del
40
I'm going to Vote:Wonko, not because of his misuse of the term Crap Logic, but of his continuing use of Bad Logic.
Quote:
Furthermore, if I really knew that, as jeep says, Crap Logic was a tool used strictly by evil characters, would I just come out like that and proclaim my evilness?


This and the rest of his post (28 ) reads like a textbook case of "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
First day votes depend not on data, since we have none, but rather on impressions, and Wonko is definitely giving off the "guilty" vibe.

[ fixed 28 ]

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/14/02 9:53:37 am
Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
Posts: 4
(9/14/02 8:06:13 am)
129.94.19.100
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41
Sorry... that last thing is supposed to refer to post "28", not post "2-smiley-face-with-sunglasses". Damn emoticons.

Wonko the Sane
unregistered user
(9/14/02 10:23:24 am)
68.44.83.228
| Del
42
Well thanks to axetil for recognizing that I was only half serious (at most) on my first post. I didn't really want to say anything because I figured that everyone is being business business and that joking is seen as a detriment to the game. And if you dare read something into this last paragraph, you deserve to be killed instantly by mod-thunder for being an anal-retentive .....well I won't say it because I think swearing is not looked upon positively in this forum.

However I think that with this post the fun and freedom of a beginning mafia game sorta ends for me. This game went quickly from 'we don't know what's going on so let's talk' to 'let's point our fingers at as many people as we can to try and trap one of them.' I can't say that's a bad strategy, as it's only my second game.

As to thinking to much, Starman, that's what they [the law school] are trying to teach me to do. I am resisting, but there's only so much you can do... :derutat

Well, Blicero, speaking of impressions. I've already stated that you give me a negative impression. Since, as you so correctly point out, it is so early in the game, you only got my pinky of suspicion (that was also a quasi-joke) and not the whole arm.....but you seemed a bit suspicious to me for your reaction to Diplomat's innocent post. And me using bad logic?? I have not pretended to use logic yet. Using logic when you have nearly zero data is about as useless as using a surgical scalpel when you're six years old because "you want to be a doctor." I'm sorry, I couldn't think of a good and funny analogy on the spot. The most any of us are doing is guessing at this stage. Which can be helpful. But please don't come up with seemingly-thought-out analyses of how one player is definitely mafia so early on in the game. I don't know if you're new to this -- I am -- but read my little note on anal retentiveness. I like to learn from mistakes, and one I made in my first game is that of being anal. To the point that it affected my judgement and almost lost the game for the town.

Anyway, I am one wordy moth*****ker. Sorry for that.

jeep
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 41
(9/14/02 11:41:46 am)
208.151.245.167
| Del
43
OK, I will be away for the next 7 days. I might be able to check in a couple times, but I won't count on it.

Since I won't be able to react to new information, I'll unvote: Wonko, but if I was going to be around, I would not be doing so at this time.

-JEEP

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/14/02 5:51:45 pm
jeep
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 42
(9/14/02 11:43:41 am)
208.151.245.167
| Del
44
Holy missing two posts batman! :)

I'm sure Radwulf will fix the numbering, but I'm posting this one with the right number.

-JEEP

Neo
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 45
(9/14/02 10:09:07 pm)
24.225.4.75
| Del
45
Knowing the person that coined the term "Crap Logic (TM)" as some of the players here do, I think I can accurately inform you as to it's definition.

Too many people think that Crap Logic (TM) aka Fuzzy Logic (R) are exclusively tools of evil, but they're not. More often then not, it's just the best their is. Exclusive evil-ness lies in the use of Bad-Logic (TM) and No-Logic (R).

And in case you don't know, the great Antrax said something very similar once.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/14/02 10:10:22 pm
Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
Posts: 5
(9/15/02 5:58:03 am)
129.94.19.83
| Del
46
Alright, I'm going to unvote: Wonko, and save my vote for the next person that tries to definitively explain exactly what Crap Logic or Good Logic or Smurf Logic is. Seriously guys, give it a rest.

StarmanDeluxeEB
centura alba (1)
Posts: 8
(9/15/02 5:59:50 pm)
204.210.61.6
| Del
47
I wanna see things get moving :O

---------------------------------------

Teshara
Mon Calamari Diplomat/Ambassador
Dark City Office
Pax Imperius


At your service!

Needforspeed001
centura alba (1)
Posts: 4
(9/17/02 5:48:21 am)
168.26.195.43
| Del
Re:48
Good day, fellow citizens. As many of you may know by now, i am also new to this game but i have had some warm-up experiences at #mafiagames. it is true if one might say, that there is not too much speculation at this time which, is to expected. No one has crossed over to the outer limits, which makes me happy as well as concerned. Either way, i will :UNVOTE JEEP, since i can not say for sure that indeed he is of the dark force. till next time, keep in touch, keep your eyes open, and cross your fingers that none of us will perish during the night.

:trascuoq
Unvote: JEEP

CIAO: Keep the rubber side down. A.K.A. Speedevil. Be a safe driver!

Edited by: Needforspeed001 at: 9/18/02 8:01:21 am
radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 797
(9/17/02 9:22:54 am)
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Vote Count! please report any errors
wonko the sane 1 - neo
diplomat 1 - blueeyes
007 1 - ornamental cabbage

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at.

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 31
(9/17/02 5:53:17 pm)
131.193.13.104
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Well, this game sure slowed down. All those people who said that they will hang back and watch the game, please don't hesitate to share your ideas.

Beoneknight, I don't think there are 2 mafia families here just because of the number of players. Maybe a serial killer.

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 448
(9/17/02 11:28:49 pm)
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#51
its very lesslikely that there are two mafia families...in that case 2 persons would die per night...and nobody died last night ...don't u think its to much of a coincidence that two people would be saved by the docs in the first night?

hey, OC u stiil have that vote on me? k...i've waited enough! explain your vote, dude...till then u have mine... vote: OC

...what are u trying to do? still waiting for a bandvagon , ha..scum?...don't paly stupid! think, reason and then vote!!

i'm waiting ,very curious ,for ur explanation!

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Ahri
unregistered user
(9/18/02 2:35:12 am)
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neway, these are my thoughts.

Wonko:
I don't believe Wonko is suspicious because I interpreted his words to be a joke as well. Secondly, if he is mafia, I don't think that he would be stupid enough to say something like that as an outwright confession since it is his second game.

Diplomat:
I also don't believe that he has said anything suspicious and the only reason why he has a vote is out of vindictive retrobution.

007:
I'm mildly if at all suspicious of you because you were a promoter of the we have good docs idea, in which case makes me think, "How would you know unless you selected a target." However, believing that we have good docs is the instinctual reaction we the mod announces that no one has died, since the majority of the time mafia choses to kill.

Blue eyes:
For the same reasons I'm mildly suspicious of 007, is because you were so supportive to the we have good docs without thinking of the no kill choice. However, most newbies chose to hang back and stay silent while you took a more active role in the game. That could just be your gaming persona or it could mean that you know something that I don't. In either case, it's not suspicious enough for me to give you my vote.

Joe:
I am mildly suspicious of you because of your whole you think it's unfair for someone to die speech making you seem like "the nice guy", which would go along with the mafia chose not to kill theory and you are a newbie so you couldn't be sure whether or not your speech would raise anyone's suspicions. In addition, you made no reply when someone said they were suspicious of you, which could mean that you are an infrequent checker of the msg board or that you realized that opening your mouth got you in trouble as mafia, and saying more might further incriminate yourself. So instead you might have chosen to hang back and stay silent in hopes that everyone would forget about any suspicions of you. However, you did say that you were going to hang back anyway, so I'll wait for your reply before giving you my vote.

everyone else hasn't really said enough to raise or ease my suspicions yet. As for what I think happened last night, I am more inclined to believe that the mafia chose not to kill or that we have multiple doctors, than the we are extremely lucky. However I have been in games where on the first night we actually were very lucky, but I have the feeling that these msg board mafia games have more nuances and subtleties than the games I'm used to. Sorry for the msg being so long.

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(9/18/02 3:15:39 am)
68.40.40.141
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53 La la la...DIE
Fine, then.

I am a Cop. I investigated 007 first night (hey, he was first alphabetically, not that I plan to stick to that) and was told he is guilty. Naturally, coming out with this information on the first day is a stupid idea, since I could be any sort of Cop, Normal, Insane, Paranoid, etc. Hence I wanted to see how he'd respond to a vote with a slight nudge. Mafia, being scared of Cops, will take any hint as an accusation. I leave it up to the Town to decide what to do about this information; personally, I'd like to rely on the protection of Docs while I find out exactly what type of Cop I am.

For the meantime, let's see how you respond, 007. You can start by taking that vote off me.

-Officer Cabbage

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/18/02 3:38:47 am
007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 451
(9/18/02 4:14:53 am)
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oh well...this is getting interesting...

the vote will not go anywhere for now, oc!

reason: i'm not gonna unvote a very suspicious dude, claiming a cop role, who sais that he investigated me and found me GUILTY when i konw that i'm not!

it is either one or the other: u're a INSANE COP or A MAFIA SCUM and u found the perfect aliby: when i'm gonna be dead, people would see that i wasn't mafia at all and u would be the INSANE COP when u , easly , might be a very sly SCUM!...well this is just a scenario...one of the many...

ofcourse, i'm aware of the fact that my responding to oc's post was expected..BUT, what else i could do?

this is the truth: i'm not mafia and oc is either insane cop or mafia scum!

one more thing:

if u guys think that one of us sould die now, i strongly recomend that oc would be the one!! and i'll explain why.

let's say u lynch me.u find that i am innocent.
what do u find? A BIG NOTHIN'
the dilema would not disapear! the question will remain: what is oc? mafia or insane cop!
what did u accomplish? again: A BIG NOTHIN'

so, lynching me at this point i don't think it would be a great ideea!

u think what would happen if we lynch OC !


oc, might indeed be a cop..insane ofcourse...and that meens that we townies fight aginst each other when the mafias are cool..well, i'm open for discusion and i surely hope we'll do the right thing...

...anyways oc...u acted wery "not smart"...if u are indeed a cop u souldn't have done this, anyways not at all at this very moment in the game: reveal ur role...are u playin mafia for the fisrt time? if "yes" than i could say i understand...if "not" then ..what can i say: the only ones that would do what u did are either a mafia scum or an irresponsable townie!

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: 007 at: 9/18/02 4:27:34 am
StarmanDeluxeEB
centura alba (1)
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All I have to say is that it is VERY unwise to reveal a cop role so early.

Dorlun
centura alba (1)
Posts: 2
(9/18/02 5:28:33 am)
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oc/007
What exactly is the difference between a normal cop and an insane cop? (is this used within the context of this game or is 007 merely calling oc insane?)

007
Perhaps the definition of an insane cop clarifies this, but I don't see why oc couldn't be a regular cop and reveal his role to prove u guilty...on the other hand i don't see why he couldn't simply claim to be a cop to try to direct the vote(s) against someone...so i guess still not enough info for me to vote...

oc
how long have u been playing this game? (forum and or real life)

Neo
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 46
(9/18/02 6:36:37 am)
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Normal Cop (Sane) - gets the correct results everytime

Paranoid Cop - gets a guilty response everytime

Naive Cop - Gets an innocent response everytime

Insane Cop - Gets the opposite result everytime (innocent = guilty and vice versa)

Lazy Cop (Has other names as well) - gets a random result each night.

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 29
(9/18/02 7:22:26 am)
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Wow, what a plethora of useless cops are actually out there. Never had any idea. In short, this sucks. Even an insane cop is useless unless one can be absolutely sure that he is insane....and that certainty can't really occur unless one or more innocents die in the process of proving the insanity...

So if this game does in fact have an insane cop, a lazy cop, a retarded cop, or a cop that likes to wear ladies' underwear underneath his cop uniform then we can never rely on any cop's suggestions, suspicions, or anything really -- simply because there are too many permutations [or combinations...I don't remember my algebra too well]. So we can either (a)choose to ignore cops or (b)assume all cops are normal cops. [there is a (c) of course...given a cop, try to figure out his type, but like I said -- too many combinations].

Until proven wrong, I am going to assume (b). All cops are normal cops in this game. Then the only remaining question when a cop comes out and reveals himself is whether he is telling the truth or whether he is lying. If lying, he is obviously mafia (I guess he could just be messing with us). So....

In the present situation, we can (a)check the veracity of oc's statement by lynching 007, (b)lynch oc to see if he's cop after all, or (c)ignore the whole mess for now. If we do (a) and 007 turns out innocent, we know OC is mafia. If 007 turns out mafia -- great. If we do (b) and OC is innocent, we don't know anything (because 007 was just reacting...he did nothing suspicious). If OC is mafia -- great. If we do (c) we learn nothing for now.

If a townie sacrifice results in a mafia death, then the sacrifice was worth it. This is an obvious numerical truth in situations where there are significantly more townies than mafia -- at the beginning of the game we can only assume there are MUCH more townies than mafia.

This would seem to support version (a) above -- lynching 007. If he's innocent, it's too bad for 007 but we most likely have a confirmed mafia afterwards in OC. If 007 mafia, the benefits of lynching him are obvious. The third option -- which I believe is very unlikely -- is that they're both innocent and OC is some kind of demented cop with a personality disorder.

I am willing to take the chance that the third option is not true. If I am mistaken, my mistake will be a costly one.

I vote 007.

P.S. I guess this could be a clever and ballsy ploy by two mafia members (oc and 007) -- they know that once we kill whichever one of them and see he's mafia, we will not suspect the other for a long time...

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 30
(9/18/02 7:24:16 am)
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And of course a probationary FOS on Ornamental Cabbage. His probation lasts until this mess gets cleared up.

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 454
(9/18/02 7:30:49 am)
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Quote:
If a townie sacrifice results in a mafia death, then the sacrifice was worth it. This is an obvious numerical truth in situations where there are significantly more townies than mafia -- at the beginning of the game we can only assume there are MUCH more townies than mafia.

This would seem to support version (a) above -- lynching 007. If he's innocent, it's too bad for 007 but we most likely have a confirmed mafia afterwards in OC. If 007 mafia, the benefits of lynching him are obvious


w00t? u are so wrong!
didn't u read my post? u find a BIG WHOLE NOTING if u lynch me! u don't change anything!! can't see that! its so clear:
this moment: what do u know about oc? he's either mafia or am "not smart" cop (insane )
after u lynch me: what do u know? same as above

what is my sacrifice for? for nothing? no thanks , i'll pass that!

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/18/02 7:41:04 am
007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 455
(9/18/02 7:36:53 am)
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wonko, if u wish the best for the town then unvote me till u can...i'm sure sooner or later the scums are gonna jump voting for me...
wonko, u're thinking is too complicated sometimes, to crowded and u miss the essence!

its a big mistake to vote me right now and in fact i think killin' OC wouldn't help either....i know radwulf, he doesn't give detalies about someones role after he's dead...so he's probably gonna tell us somthing like: oc, cop, was lynched(even if he was an insane cop)...or OC , bandit, was lynched...

but my vote is gonna stay cause i stiil think he's more likely to be mafia...i don't think this is his first game...

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: 007 at: 9/18/02 8:02:35 am
Needforspeed001
centura alba (1)
Posts: 5
(9/18/02 8:17:32 am)
172.146.119.89
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Good day fellow living ones. It is so nice to see that there is a little action building up, even dough it only involves oc & 007. I must say things can not be clear just now. It is mucho early to be able to vote, but of course i would do the same if i had a secure and credible source. So, for all you fellow reader citizens, who like to sit back and relax on your nice computadora chair, please get back to us and give some imput if you may, just to see what you think. Even if it is not much, but a little is better than nothing. So far, there are not many folks involved in the daily discussion , and at this speed we might as well buy a TRABANT, and put it in neutral, hopefully were heading for a downhill, so it can pick up some speed. Ok,, related to the game just send a line or two even if you only suspect something, it may help a bit. As for me, form what i gathered about oc&007 it is just too early to put a vote on for either one. I do not want to loose a fellow citizen, even if it would be a mad-cop or normal cop. Cops are Cops and they are needed either way. I do not believe in lynching someone just so the maffia can laugh at our mistakes,making them laugh as we make things easier for them. remember that is the maffias job. to confuse and to infuse information 'bout folks.
with this il live you in peace, and remember:

CIAO: Keep the rubber side down. A.K.A. Speedevil. Be a safe driver!

joesatri
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 47
(9/18/02 2:37:48 pm)
80.24.10.3
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Ahri...
Quote:

Joe:
I am mildly suspicious of you because of your whole you think it's unfair for someone to die speech making you seem like "the nice guy", which would go along with the mafia chose not to kill theory and you are a newbie so you couldn't be sure whether or not your speech would raise anyone's suspicions. In addition, you made no reply when someone said they were suspicious of you, which could mean that you are an infrequent checker of the msg board or that you realized that opening your mouth got you in trouble as mafia, and saying more might further incriminate yourself. So instead you might have chosen to hang back and stay silent in hopes that everyone would forget about any suspicions of you. However, you did say that you were going to hang back anyway, so I'll wait for your reply before giving you my vote.



First of all.. i am a newbie.. this is like.. my 4th game on a board.
i don't think mafia would not send a target the 1st night. Nobody has no idea who the mafia is the 1st night, so this is an easy kill (imho). so.. i do think mafia sent a target and the doc saved the person....

Regarding BlueEyes's accusation.. i didn't take that as an accusation..
BlueEyes said.. his feeling is i'm mafia because of my comments..
That's NOT an accusation..
What comments? i just said that i didn't find the killing in the 1st night fair.
For the mafia, this game is anything BUT being fair.. so. .this does not apply for 'em..

And.. i do check the board.. like.. 2.. 3 times a day (@ work)
but.. in the evenings... i usually don't check it.
I'm married... heh.. :) )





:.:.: [delirious] :.:.: the power always comes from above :.:.:

axetil
unregistered user
(9/18/02 11:38:21 pm)
128.248.170.247
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... This game is taking longer than I thought it would: ) I'm all about killing someone, so I'll

vote: 007

Here's the strategy (assuming that if someone dies we only get to find out if they're mafia or not):
If 007 turns out to be mafia, then we keep Officer Cabbage alive for another day (with the help of a doc)
since he's either a normal, unlikely, but possibly a paranoid cop, a lazy cop, or mafia (or some other unknown character, I haven't played this game online until now) We kill the second person that Cabbage investigates, regardless of innocence to find if Cabbage is normal or just very lucky, since we'd be in a position to sacrafice people (we would have already killed 1 mafia) and a normal cop would be very useful. If he messes up, we kill him or just stop listening to him the 3rd day.
If 007 turns out to be a civilian, we keep cabbage alive for 1 more day to see what his 'investigation' comes up with - he could still be useful as an insane cop. I think that after the second day, we will have enough information to make a pretty good guess about what Cabbage is. Of course, if they're working together as mafia, killing 007 is the correct first step. The remaining townsfolk should be able to find out what Cabbage is up to before it's too late.

Of course, if we get full information about the characters that get lynched, killing Cabbage would (almost - there is always the 'lazy cop', and Cabbage could be mafia) tell us if 007 is mafia or not, but this at the price of a cop.

In defense of my thought that Cabbage is telling the truth - in his very first message he fingered 007.

PS wonko - please don't spell out things that you consider to be "obvious numerical truths", I don't see the point of spending the time typing the whole paragraph that starts with "If a townie sacrafice..." Also, I think that 'possibilities' is more appropriate than either 'permutations' or 'combinations' :) No hard feelings



Dorlun
centura alba (1)
Posts: 3
(9/19/02 12:15:16 am)
68.22.198.173
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One more question...does the cop know what type of cop he is?

Ahri
unregistered user
(9/19/02 1:08:16 am)
172.169.144.65
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First off, radwuf (sorry if I mispelled ur name) rarely gives the details of one's role other than the type of role. So for example the insane doctors won't know their insane until they kill their patients. In that sense I'm going to assume that Cabbage, if he really is the cop has no idea if he's sane or not.

007 vs. Cabbage
Since we have no more suspicious suspects. I say lynch 007. This way we will know if OC is sane, or he is insane/lying. I doubt he would lie about being a cop on the first day when no one was killed since if we discover 007 to be innocent, then he would be the next to die since he himself admitted to not knowing anything about useless cops. Either way, if 007 is innocent, then we know Cabbage is lying or unreliable in any event, and then we can concentrate on finding the other mafia, before we lynch him.

There's my two cents.

vote: 007

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 456
(9/19/02 1:36:06 am)
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k, this is gettin way to far! i've nothing else to do but reveal my role before u guys do anything stupid!

and this happened because of OC's stupidity(sory it sounds harsh but its the truth) revealing his role so early!...this is gettin close to a disaster and it looks like u people don't listen to what i have to say...well maybe i'm just talking to mafias ...don't know...anyways it seems that u don't think at all!!

AHRI, can't u understant that u are not gonna find anything lynching me??? isit to difficult for ur brains to get that???????? ha?...and not just u..all the guys that voted me..

anyways...i'm not gonna try anymore to save the situation for the town cause it seems u don't care...

i am the : DOCTOR! i saved NEO last night!

the situation now its really mest up .."thanks" to our "bright" OC!

i recomend that the other doctor would save me when the night will come and so i will be able to save someone else...whoever we decide!

..man i can't belive this is happening...so, freakin, early in the game...

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: 007 at: 9/19/02 2:05:45 am
StarmanDeluxeEB
centura alba (1)
Posts: 10
(9/19/02 2:02:53 am)
66.75.3.96
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"Welcome to 'Completely-Screwed-Up-Mafia-Game-Land,' may I take your order?"

Neo
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 47
(9/19/02 4:46:43 am)
24.225.21.29
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I'm tired, in too much pain and have far too much work to do to do a full analyzation for you all (it'll come later) just wanted to check in.

Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
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(9/19/02 5:08:03 am)
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Yeah, we could royally screw this game up if we kill a cop or a doc on the first day. Although it goes against everything I stand for, I suggest a no-lynch.

OC - I strongly suggest you investigate Neo tonight. That way, we can find out what type of cop you are, and whether or not 007 is telling the truth about his doc role.

BTW, if a no-lynch is against the rules, or goes against your personal moral code, let's please turn the bandwagon to someone other than OC or 007... those two are our best sources of information right now.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/19/02 5:23:05 am
007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 457
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there's just one thing captain blicero:
see, i saved neo last night but ithat doesn't necceserly mean he is innocent!..i strongly thing there are more doctors in this game....un get it?..understant what i'm saying...? so..

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: 007 at: 9/19/02 7:38:50 am
Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
Posts: 8
(9/19/02 8:08:17 am)
129.94.6.28
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007, did you *save* Neo last night, or were you just protecting him, and he happened to survive? Do you know for a fact that he was targeted?

When you say that you *saved* him, I assume that you got some message from radwulf saying that there was an attempt on Neo's life... in that case, Neo must be innocent (unless you protected him from a serial killer and some other doc protected the mafia target, which I find very unlikely).

Please clarify what you mean.

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 31
(9/19/02 8:37:05 am)
68.44.83.228
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What a mess I helped to create. As far as allegations that I do not use my brain are concerned, 007, you may have missed that my premise was that there are no abnormal cops in this game. If that premise is true, then what I said later follows logically.

On the other hand, everyone seems to think that we have some f***ed up cops in the game. If this is the case, then I will not argue my previous point because if a premise of an argument is proven false, the argument becomes void. However, I am still willing to assume that there are no abnormal cops in our game.

This is indeed a tough one. OC claimed cop role -- a cop role can arguably be proven by demonstration. 007, to escape death, claimed a doc role -- a role that can't be voluntarily proven (eg. a mafia claiming doc role would try to demonstrate by picking a person to save, and then just not kill anyone). Now I am not saying that he has to be lying -- but what would a mafia in his position do as an effort to save self?

I have not been able to ascertain when the deadline is. I would like to know because I want to assure that 007's lynching, if it occurs, is decided by more than just a 1/3 plurality....don't take this as an attempt to throw off responsibility in case I'm wrong -- I admit to my mistakes. I just think that a decision of this importance should be reached with more than the bare minimum vote.....if for no other reason, then because we might have 4 mafia running around -- add 2 to that and you've got a lynching.

[edited post number....someone was a faster poster than I]
[lengthened the size of the beep so the word can be read as "fouled" :) -- radwulf ]

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/19/02 8:41:17 am
radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 815
(9/19/02 8:50:12 am)
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Vote Count! please report any errors

007 4 - (ornamental cabbage, wonko the sane, axetil, ahri)
wonko the sane 1 - (neo)
diplomat 1 - (blueeyes)
ornamental cabbage - (007)

Night will fall on: Saturday 11:59pm GMT + 6 (US Central)
9 votes are required for lynching, 6 if no one has majority at the deadline!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/19/02 8:51:17 am
007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 458
(9/19/02 8:51:28 am)
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captain blicero:
i PROTECTED neo...i'm not sure if i saved him or not!

wonko:
an yes wonko, i'm trying to escape the lynch...it would be a disaster for the town! i am the doc ..i'm not claiming a role...i'm revealing mine!

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:11:32 am
Needforspeed001
centura alba (1)
Posts: 6
(9/19/02 6:27:52 pm)
168.26.195.105
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Another day, anothers tressed out experience for poor 007.
Looks like so far you have gotten 4 folks against you. If my memory does not go against me it looks like you always fall in the first day or so, and usually in other games you werent the bad guy either. so for 007's and out fellow citizen's sake (which includes me as well) i suggest that that who ever has the power to check things out on 007 it might be woth a try. See if he really is good or bad (just for the sake of saving a good life source if that be the case) cause if is trully is clean that his death would just lessen our combined powers against the dark forces, thus they would have the advantage rather than us. I say go for a NOLYNCH at least for the next 12 hours, if anyone can find something out till then. If not, then just use your sense of judgment (but let that be a clear judgement).
till next time, peace:

CIAO: Keep the rubber side down. A.K.A. Speedevil. Be a safe driver!

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:11:48 am
007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 459
(9/19/02 11:37:14 pm)
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even though i hate what OC did and i would kill this guy myself if i could( mafia or insane cop,,whoever he is) i really think a nolynch day would be the perfect choice right now...so unvote: oc
and vote: NOLYNCH ...BTW that's how its done(the nolynch vote) and it's perfectly "legal"!

u gotta put the vote on BOLD so the mod would count it!

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:12:05 am
Ahri
unregistered user
(9/20/02 3:59:51 am)
128.248.172.224
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heh, I leave for a day or so and look what happens. NEWAY I must say that I do not fully trust 007 yet. Especially since the moment he claimed to be a doctor he admitted to there being other doctors and left out the possibility that he could be the ONLY doctor. With that said I think he must know that someone else also has the role of doctor. However I am myself slightly inclined to believe we have more than one doctor, I want to know why u omitted that possibility. Until u convince me of that my vote stays.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:12:36 am
007
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centura maro (5)

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Quote:
heh, I leave for a day or so and look what happens. NEWAY I must say that I do not fully trust 007 yet. Especially since the moment he claimed to be a doctor he admitted to there being other doctors and left out the possibility that he could be the ONLY doctor. With that said I think he must know that someone else also has the role of doctor. However I am myself slightly inclined to believe we have more than one doctor, I want to know why u omitted that possibility. Until u convince me of that my vote stays.
..ahri

oook, now if this post is not TOTALY confusing then i'm a bit slow... :derutat

soo, AHRI, what are trying to say, again? and what is ur question?

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:12:48 am
StarmanDeluxeEB
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Well, at least we'll know whether we have an insane cop on our hands or not if 007 dies.

Vote: 007

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:13:13 am
Ahri
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My question is how did you know there was another doctor. By your automatic assumption that there is another doctor you are making it seem like you are lying and covering ur *ss so that the other doctor wouldn't be suspicious of you.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:13:30 am
007
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centura maro (5)

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there we go....mafias jumping on the bandvagon!

STARMANDELUXE: %99 mafiascum! u ignored all that was said and u refuse to use ur brains and reason and then take a smart decision!
and ur vote explanation is CRAP, PURE CRAP!

u scum: vote :starmandeluxe

i explained not once that by LYNCHING ME u are not gonna find any piece of information! NOTHING! do u understant what i'm saying ? ha?

please, TOWNIES, at least don't let these scums lynch me! unvote...u are close to doing somthing really wrong!

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:13:49 am
007
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centura maro (5)

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AHRI, this game consists of 16 players! it's more then normal to have (to asume that we have) more then one doc!

99.999% that i am not the only doc in this game!

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: 007 at: 9/20/02 5:10:58 am
ornamental cabbage
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First, to answer your questions. I don't believe it matters how long I have played Mafia or how many games I have under my belt, but if you really want to know the number, I'll tell you.

1. Why did I come out on the first day?

There's a high probability of there being a Doctor in the game, because there was no Mafia kill. If I am a useful Cop (sane or insane) that Doctor can protect me. If I am not a useful Cop I might as well be lynched or killed, as I cause more harm than good. Given this, the fact that my first investigation turned up "guilty" I saw no reason not to come forward. I admit I wouldn't have if 007 hadn't responded to my initial vote the way he did. Townies are usually just confused, while his response seemed rather angry to me: most people do not get angry and/or defensive after one vote, unless they are evil, and of course Mafia always want to know who the Cop/s is/are.

2. What do I think about 007 claiming Doc?

Well, I don't want to lynch a Doc, certainly. On the other hand, it strikes me as an extremely convienent claim, for two reasons:
A. Nobody wants to lynch a Doc.
B. In a previous game, 007 as a Doc was incredibly successful at blocking Neo's Mafia kills. If 007 is Mafia, and knows Neo is innocent, he will greatly be able to influence Neo, a fairly strong player when a Townie, by claiming Doc, as Neo thinks of him as a very powerful Doc.

3. What exactly do I want to do about all this?

I want to figure out my sanity. I'm happy voting 'no lynch.' The Doctor or Doctors can protect me tonight, and I'll investigate someone (possibly Neo, possibly myself, possibly someone I will not name.) It will give me a greater chance to figure out my sanity, and if I think I am Paranoid the Docs can stop protecting me. Although I do believe 007 is quite guilty, regardless of my sanity, just because of the way he acts.

Secondly. I'm not altogether certain as to why a Cop coming out first day is to all of you the worst thing ever. It's quite common on the Labyrinth I come from, for example.

As I said earlier, I'd like to see some good debate on what the Town thinks should be done. I will also say one thing in my own defense, as 007 is questioning it with the worst logic I have ever seen from him (another Mafia trait, although I've only seen him in three games.)

If I were Mafia, there would only be one reason to come out as a Cop Day 1: if I were trying to gain your trust by sacrificing a fellow Mafioso. There would be no reason for me to sacrifice myself to take out a random Townie. Now, since I am a "newbie," do you think 007 would let me sacrifice him if we were Mafia together? I think not, I don't think he'd appreciate that at all. If such a scenario were to occur, I would probably be the sacrifice. The end result is that if I am Mafia, which I am not, I would be sacrificing one of my own, and 007 would be a good lynch anyway.

But that scenario doesn't matter unless 007 actually gets people to listen to his Crap Logic, as I am just a Cop, trying to determine my sanity and actually bring some order to Day 1 for once.

To summarize: I'm all in favor of no lynch; Doctors protect me. But of course the Town can decide to lynch someone, and in my mind 007 would be the best bet. Let's discuss it some more, I'd like to hear from everyone in the game.

OC

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:47:32 am
Ahri
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Still not sure what I think of u yet 007, but I'll leave u with my strong FOS. However, since u are claiming an important role now, I won't lynch u yet. As for starman, his logic is that if we kill u and u're innocent, then we know OC is useless. That's what we'd find out.

unvote

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:47:46 am
Ahri
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damnit, I meant unvote 007

Neway, OC, if u really want to find out ur sanity, u should investigate urself, cause u know ur innocent. However, whatever answer u get there doesn't protect u from the fact that u could be the cop that gets the random answer. However....I personally would not want to waste a cop's turn in investigating himself. Sane or

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:48:04 am
Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
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First of all, I believe that OC is telling the truth that he's some kind of cop. The only role he could be other than cop is mafia. And I really don't think the mafia would risk doing something like that on the first day.

Secondly, it did kind of strike me a little odd that 007 asked the other doc(s) to protect him. I don't see why there couldn't be only one doc. If we assume there is only one mafia group, then one doctor would be plenty. Therefore I'm (still) suspicious of 007, as I was at the beginning of the day. But I almost always favor a no-lynch on the first day because the difference between what is known on the first day and what is known on the second day is typically dramatic.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:48:18 am
Dorlun
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IF oc is a cop as he claims, lynching u actually will give the town some idea as to what type of cop oc is...and if in fact he is an unreliable source of information, he is also suspect of being mafia....personally i don't see why a person would CLAIM to be a cop just to get someone else lynched, then when the town realizes their mistake, they will naturally lynch the person who claimed to be cop in the first place...i don't think the mafia would want to risk something like this esp so early on in the game...

Of course there is the possibilty of u actually being a doctor, and then the town would suffer if we lynch u...and on top of that, if oc is actually an abnormal cop and we lynch him subsequently, then we lose two ppl (one useful and one not so useful) and the mafia is winning...

On a side note, a quick question...what happens if by sat, 11:59 cst there is not enough votes to lynch anyone?

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:48:29 am
Dorlun
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Man did the numbers get out of order...
Anyway is no lynch something we vote for? Cause i'm rather fond of the idea of not lynching anyone until we figure out oc's sanity (:-))

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 5:48:43 am
radwulf
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centura rosie (6)

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You may not vote "no-lynch" (I am rather biased against the "no-lynch" idea since Bladerunner Mafia on GL :) )

If you don't wish anyone to be lynched, simply abstain from voting; if nobody has the required number of votes at the deadline, the day will end without a lynching.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

007
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centura maro (5)

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thinking of it yeah i think a mafiascum wouldn't claim a cop role so early...but still think of the fact that oc questioned( smart move if his mafia) his sanity immediantly after he "reveled" his role...why did he do that? well, that would be the "escape door" for him after u lynch me and find out my innocence...anyways...i'll buy it for now...i belive that OC is a cop! insane cop or some sort of " not-straight" cop role.

so i guess, u guys, want me to protect oc tonight?
in this case a ask for my own protection from the other doc!

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: 007 at: 9/20/02 8:15:08 am
Neo
centura galbena (2)
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Quote:
In a previous game, 007 as a Doc was incredibly successful at blocking Neo's Mafia kills. If 007 is Mafia, and knows Neo is innocent, he will greatly be able to influence Neo, a fairly strong player when a Townie, by claiming Doc, as Neo thinks of him as a very powerful Doc.


One word: No.

I regard that game as 007 being incredibly lucky. (A good player, but seriously, that many blocks was luck :P) and I do not allow myself to be influenced by such a common tactic.

beoneknight
centura alba (1)
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Well, i finally got my internet connection, and as I come back, I have to read over a bunch of info.... I believe that oc is the cop, for mafia would not try to claim a role. Having said that i also believe that he is a paranoid/insane/ whatever you want to call it cop. I strongly believe in the fact that 007 is not mafia. Having said that, i am willing to follow 007s vote for starmandeluxe, however in post 88 dorlun suggests that if we lynch 007 and he is innocent, we will then know something about oc. I believe that such action would only make oc suspicious to us, and hence could get to innocent lynched. Having said that, i will vote darlu

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 7:55:41 am
andreeahef
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94.well,well,well
Well axetil,ahri and all the other people who have jumped at oo7's neck so fiercely I have to ruin your high hopes for whatever reasons they exist, and say that oo7 is not your man...

There are,however, many weird sounding people who maybe need to decide some things,but for now I'm watching OC and waiting for darlu's response from the vote he just got in message nr.93:albpengr
Other than that, I'm waiting for things to clear up so I can get a feel for what's going on here, if not, I don't like the nolynch idea now that I know oo7 is not on that list for me anymore...so....:sherlock

Captain Blicero
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007: Stop trying to get people lynched. Not everyone who votes for you is mafia.

Quote:
explained not once that by LYNCHING ME u are not gonna find any piece of information! NOTHING! do u understant what i'm saying ? ha?


You keep saying this, and it's wrong. If we lynch you we find out two things: 1) Your role (doc or scum) and 2) More info on OC's role. Lynching you will clear up a lot of doubts, one way or another. As I said in post 70, I trust you enough that I think no-lynch is our best option.

However, you are a much better lynch choice than Starman. Urging the docs to protect you could be a mafia gambit to keep the docs busy while you assassinate OC (and if so, it's a good play).
Docs, keep that in mind when you make your choices tonight... Make sure OC is protected.

For the rest of the town, take your votes off 007. No-lynch is our best option. Let's not do the mafia's work for them.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/20/02 9:06:27 am
joesatri
centura galbena (2)
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(9/20/02 11:06:57 am)
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Re: 96
Phew.. this is really messed up...

For those that like math.. what are the odds that 007 is the doc in 2 consecutive games? I know it's possible, and that the votes were random.. but still..
I just thought this would be interesting...

OC, u said... if 007's reaction would have been different, you wouldn't have shown your role..
I have not played too many games with 007, but from my experience with him, and from reading on other games, he comes out pretty strong when somebody votes him... and reacts tough..

007 defended himself very well... my Instinct(pirate version) says he is scum..
i dunno...
i won't vote him though... i too think that .... we need more info....

Let's see how the night goes..


:.:.: [delirious] :.:.: the power always comes from above :.:.:

007
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centura maro (5)

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Quote:
007: Stop trying to get people lynched. Not everyone who votes for you is mafia.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
explained not once that by LYNCHING ME u are not gonna find any piece of information! NOTHING! do u understant what i'm saying ? ha?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You keep saying this, and it's wrong. If we lynch you we find out two things: 1) Your role (doc or scum) and 2) More info on OC's role.
...captain blicero

ok, if u think lynching a doc and finding his role is smart then i'm not gonna say anything !
on the other hand lynching me would still live u in dark, as far as oc's role, and U KILLED A DOC TOO! i would not take the risk!....

k , then nolynch!

THIS IS FOR THE OTHER DOC IN THE GAME:
we gotta decide who to protect so we don't save the same person! i will save OC then (oh man from voting him i got to the point where i protect him...i love this game :) ) and the other DOCTOR save me!

unvote: starmandeluxe...for now

FOS: starmandeluxe , dorlun...both of 'em with considerable chances to get a vote from me next day!

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: 007 at: 9/20/02 3:47:57 pm
Ahri
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Just curious, Can doctors save themselves in this game?

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
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Quote:
For those that like math.. what are the odds that 007 is the doc in 2 consecutive games? I know it's possible, and that the votes were random.. but still..
I just thought this would be interesting...



007's roles in previous games are not at all relevant. Every game is independent. His past roles do not affect his chances of being a doc in this game. For example, the odds that 007 is a doc in two consecutive games are the same as him being a doc in one game and then a cop in another. Or him being a doc in a very old game, and a doc in this game.

Neo
centura galbena (2)
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(9/21/02 12:18:28 am)
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Okay, caught up.

For me it boils down to this: person claims to be cop. Fingers mafia. Whether or not it was stupid to do so or not is not the issue (but yes, it was).

Step 1) vote 007

Step 2) Learn 007's role without a doubt.

Step 3) Decide what to do with that info. If 007 was a doc as he claims to be, I think it's safe to assume the cop(s) will check OC.

Step 4) Daybreaks, what we do depends on the results of today.

ornamental cabbage
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That's odd, Neo. Given that I think he's guilty and that there's a Doc in this game, I'm pretty sure coming out was the right thing to do.

StarmanDeluxeEB
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hey now, 007. In terms of game strategy, voting for you or OC would be the best solution. Frankly, the game will move faster if I vote you. Don't take it personally.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/21/02 6:00:13 am
Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
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For once I do not have much to say. I don't like andreeahef's post:
Quote:
well axetil,ahri and all the other people who have jumped at oo7's neck so fiercely I have to ruin your high hopes for whatever reasons they exist, and say that oo7 is not your man...

How exactly have we determined that 007 is not our man? The fact is we don't know whether he is or he isn't....some people think he is, some people think he isn't. But no one save himself [and other mafia if he's mafia] knows. How do you "know", andreeahef?

It's just a very strange statement to be making....it has the air of being a "pheeeew, now we know the truth" where we actually don't know anything. That's something to keep in mind as the future unfolds. . .

I think 007 has 4 votes at this time (I didn't count just now -- relying on my memory). I have no immediate plans to unvote him -- however I will do so if the deadline nears and it becomes apparent that he will not get a majority. To me it is too risky to allow a plurality lynch at this stage of the game -- only 6 votes are needed and in a game of this size we may have 4 or even 5 mafia scums running around. . . they already get to kill at night, let's not give them free kills during the day.

[edited post number]

Edited by: Wonko the Sane at: 9/21/02 3:19:21 am
Dorlun
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Beoneknight in post 93 you make a reference to my post and then vote for "darlu"? It is my understanding that you are voting for me, Dorlun...correct me if i'm wrong...

Quote:

...however in post 88 dorlun suggests that if we lynch 007 and he is innocent, we will then know something about oc. I believe that such action would only make oc suspicious to us, and hence could get to innocent lynched. Having said that, i will vote darlu



Quoting myself in post 88

Quote:
Of course there is the possibilty of u (referring to 007) actually being a doctor, and then the town would suffer if we lynch u...and on top of that, if oc is actually an abnormal cop and we lynch him subsequently, then we lose two ppl (one useful and one not so useful) and the mafia is winning...


If you notice I point out the possibility of two innocents killed in post 88 already and suggest that while lynching 007 will give us some idea as to oc's credibility, if 007 is not mafia and neither is oc, then the town gets screwed out of 1, perhaps 2 innocents...This is why i'm rather tied up about lynching 007 and have not voted for him yet...

and 007, as far as your fos against me, u didn't really say why...

beoneknight
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Why are people still trying to lynch our doctor????

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/21/02 6:01:03 am
beoneknight
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Well, my last message number was well off, I am going to unvote darlun and give an FOS to all those who have voted for 007 recently

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/21/02 6:01:31 am
Dorlun
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Beoneknight how can u b so sure he is our town doctor?

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/21/02 6:01:49 am
ornamental cabbage
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108
I'm not sure we can take the risk. If there's lynching by plurality, and it looks like the Town doesn't want a lynch, I as well will unvote.

OC

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/21/02 6:02:08 am
Dorlun
centura alba (1)
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Can someone plz explain lynching by plurality?

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/21/02 6:02:18 am
StarmanDeluxeEB
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Lynching by plurality:

If, at the deadline, more than one third of the group votes for a single person, he's lynched even though he doesn't have majority. This occurs only at the deadline.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/21/02 6:02:34 am
StarmanDeluxeEB
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111
... Hmm...

I've thought about it, and it seems that we would, perhaps, be better off if 007 lived. I'll abstain from voting for now.

Unvote: 007

radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

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Vote Count! please report any errors

007 4 - (ornamental cabbage, wonko the sane, axetil, neo)
diplomat 1 - (blueeyes)

Night will fall on: Saturday 11:59pm GMT + 6 (US Central)
9 votes are required for lynching, 6 if no one has majority at the deadline!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

beoneknight
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I dont think that 007 is guilty, but 4 people still think 007 is, so here is my argument for no lynch: it has been stated before so I'll be just repeating it. If we dont lynch, nothing will really change for the night, oc, whom i also believe to be the cop, maybe i'm just that gullable, will be able to investigate someone, if he/she comes up also guilty, then we will know for sure that oc is paranoid... if on the other hand we lynch, we will be loosing one of the most valuable players in our game.

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

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114
starmandeluxe...voting and unvoting and use of nonesens logic...another black point for u....i am more and more convinced i wanna vote for u next day!

so again, I AM GONNA SAVE OC TONIGHT AND THE OTHER DOC SAVE ME ! ...just makin' sure

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

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[off topic]

i'm gonna b gone tomorow(saturday) pretty much the whole day...so i won't be able to post if necesary...i apreciate ur understanding!

[/off topic]

this is all from me for "today": nolynch and i will save OC tonight...see u all "tomorow"

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

andreeahef
centura alba (1)
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(9/21/02 8:59:38 am)
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116.GEEZUMS PEOPLE!
The point is, Wonko, that I happen to hav firsthand info about oo7's innocence, what he's saying so far is very true and in accordance with my personal info.understand?
I'm still waiting for some more plausible evidence on people, so I'm not going to comment any further unless I know what I'm talking about.The one thing right now that I can bring to the table is that 007 is innocent and that we should start looking elsewhere and starting to look at other possibilities.:/

StarmanDeluxeEB
centura alba (1)
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Changing one's mind is bad around here? Considering you've voted and unvoted four or five times, I'd think you'd be the last one to say that.

And maybe my logic isn't nonsense--with four votes still on you, people seem to agree with me. However, I unvoted simply because you may--by some off chance--be telling the truth, and a no-lynch day isn't THAT bad.

ornamental cabbage
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(9/21/02 8:24:49 pm)
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118
Someone just claimed to have firsthand information about 007's innocence. This is enough for me to question my judgment, so I'll just hope I can figure out my sanity tonight.
Unvote: 007

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
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(9/21/02 8:28:18 pm)
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Quote:
The point is, Wonko, that I happen to hav firsthand info about oo7's innocence

That was andreeahef. As far as I know Docs can't be in mason lodges, so this must mean that andreeahef is an investigator of some sort. Somehow I don't think two cops coming out in one day is a good idea unless we have 3+ docs (at this stage, one for OC, one for 007, and now one for andreeahef). Then again maybe andreeahef is 007's mafia buddy...
The statement is somewhat strange -- andreeahef claims some "personal" and secret information which proves 007's innocence......without sharing with us exactly what kind of information it is. Sharing this info would probably be beneficial to the town.....and it would not flag you for the mafia any more than your statements probably already have.

Game Summary:
1) OC claims Cop role, fingers 007 as mafia.
2) 007 claims Doc role. Believes OC is an abnormal cop (or perhaps mafia, but unlikely)
3) andreeahef confirms 007 is Doc by virtue of "firsthand," "personal info[rmation]."

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/22/02 4:24:27 am
beoneknight
centura alba (1)
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(9/21/02 10:43:25 pm)
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Most of this message is going to be pretty repetitive of what has been said before, however so close before the voting deadline i dont have anything new to say... ok... so what do we have.... 2 people who claim to have investigative roles checked out 007 on their first turn and got conflicting results. 007 claims to be the doc, it doesnt make any sense to me why we would try to lynch someone who has a role that is as important as a doc. andreeahef says that 007 is innocent giving that much more weight to 007s argument. I do not believe that both of them are mafia... so for now i'll assume the innocence of 007, oc, and andreeahef, I also am certain of my own innocence. MOD, can we make a vote no lynch an official voting option, or do we need to tieup the votes in order not to lynch anyone?

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
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(9/22/02 2:44:42 am)
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007 has only 4 votes, and the deadline nears. I do not believe that he will get 9 votes before midnight, and because I do not plan to check the board again before that time, I now unvote 007 as I said I would.

However, the situation stinks to me. Firstly, I do not believe 2 individual investigators chose to check out 007 on the same day (especially the first). Either may be lying, or both. Or maybe andreeahef is not an investigator but has discovered information re 007 some other way. There are several possibilities. Partly by analysis and in large part by intuition I tentatively believe that (1)OC is a cop of some sort, (2)007 is scum, and (3)andreeahef is a question mark -- either a mafia scum or a townie very convinced of 007's innocence for some reason.

The paranoid part of me suspects another scenario -- At least 2 of those three are mafia and are playing the sacrifice game. Once we kill one or two of them and see he's/they're mafia, the survivor(s) will gain our confidence. Though this is farfetched, this kind of play (if executed correctly) is extremely successful at removing ALL shadows of doubt from the survivor or survivors. But like I said it's farfetched. It's just something to keep in mind.

So let the night come. And with it events that hopefully shed some light on the subject. Cop(s) and Doctor(s), tread carefully tonight.

Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
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(9/22/02 5:13:49 am)
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The only problem with your paranoid scenario is that the other cops and docs in the game definitely would suspect something with two players claiming cop and one claiming doc.

My paranoid scenario is that 007 is getting docs to protect him so that OC is not protected tonight, and the mafia can get a kill on a Sane Cop. However, it's a suicide play, and I don't think the mafia wants to lose a family member to kill a townie at this stage of the game, especially since OC might be Paranoid and/or Lazy.

Well, we'll find out tonight.

andreeahef
centura alba (1)
Posts: 10
(9/22/02 8:15:16 am)
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123. Whoa there Nelly!!
Listen Wonko, I just didn't think it would be neccessary to spell out my role for you...but the point is that I'm not a cop and I'm not mafia and yes, I do have concrete evidence of 007's innocence.
I don't understand why you'd think that I would try to so openly protect a fellow mafia if I was mafia, in the first place.I mean, the clear way I said it would have been a suicide letter for a mafia person,but I'm not and I was just simply trying to share the shred of evidence I do have on 007 and that's it.
What else can I say?
That's all I know for now, and like I said before,I'm waiting to see something concrete before I make any real assumptions.I'm curious about what's going to happen next,but since nobody's being voted...all there is is a big ? It's back to the drawing board for me anyway..:sherlock

radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 825
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Unable to reach something resembling a consensus regarding whom to lynch, the townies go home to sleep, muttering threats and unpleasant promises to one another. I don't think anyone will be surprised if some of them would actually be carried out.

Nobody has been lynched! It is now night, please send in your choices as soon as possible! Choices not received in 72 hrs, will be picked by me randomly (this rule was and will be used throughout the game--I appologize for not making it clear when the game started).

[ there are about 24 hrs until the deadline for choices ]

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/24/02 8:30:22 am
radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 833
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á á á á - Dorlun, the Mafia boss wishes to make you an offer you can't refuse...
á á á á - Ok, let's hear it, asks Dorlun cautiously.
á á á á - Die! shouts the scum.
á á á á Happy to have successfully completed the godfather's instructions, he returns home... where a killer even more vicious and ruthless than himself makes him an equally unpleasant and unrefusable offer.
á á á á In the morning, the townies find Dorlun, a simple citizen, shot in the head, and the mafioso Starmandeluxeeb drowned in his kitchen sink.


Dorlun (townie) has been killed by the mafia, and Starmandeluxeeb (mafioso) has been killed by the psychopath. It is now DAY! 8 votes are required for lynching, 5 votes if no one has majority at deadline.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/25/02 3:01:36 am
007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 473
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hm...so i guess my vote on starmandeluxe would be nonsens right now...glad the scum died!

i'm also happy we didn't lose an important role as in cop or doc last night!

i don't get it: why did mafia kill dorlun? he had pretty good changes to be lynched or at least i should say he was a little suspicious because the way he plays and because of what he said...i don't know but i think mafia played pretty stupid last night...i have no ideea why they chose dorlun..?..but on the other hand the SK was awsome, killin a scum...THANKS MAN! :jubiland

k, now i'm sure we have more clues...some things happened...

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
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(9/25/02 3:39:12 am)
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Good morning everyone [with a stretch and a yawn].

So, we have a serial killer. There goes my Crap-Logic prediction from my first post. Dorlun's death seems not to mean much, at least from only skimming the thread. Starman's role as mafia does shed some light on the situation, but one must be careful in any analysis...

I pointed out in an early post that Captain Blicero's and Starman's rapid condemnation of Diplomat for a statement he made was like a bongo line, obviously referring to bandwagoning. Blicero FOSed first, then Starman voted. Blicero's FOS was strangely unprovoked (all Diplomat did to deserve it is state that it is suspicious to say we have good docs) but it was only a FOS. It did earn Blicero a pinky of suspicion from me, but it hardly makes him a bad guy on its own...

Starman and 007 seemed to go off on each other a little bit. It seemed pretty legitimate. Starman voted for 007 after seeing 007 had 4 votes, perhaps trying to bandwagon him. Five votes is not that much when 9 are necessary, but I wouldn't vote for a buddy of mine in that situation. All in all I find my suspicion of 007 declining. Of course it could have been well-executed disassociation. But Starman's play did not seem sophisticated enough to warrant such good execution...

I FOS OC because as I said before, he gets a probationary FOS until his situation becomes cleared up. Furthermore I believe more and more he was wrong about 007 - but he could just be a screwed up cop.

[edited post number. people keep squeezing in posts right before me!]

Edited by: Wonko the Sane at: 9/25/02 3:41:08 am
jeep
centura galbena (2)
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(9/25/02 3:58:47 am)
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OK, so I'm back from my vacation, it's day, and I'm confused... why are people not believing that OC is a cop? I believe it's normal to follow the cop's advice and then if it's wrong, you lynch the cop to prevent the "Lepton's Gambit." OC surely knows this (I beleive he told me his alias on mafiascum...) and certainly knows that he would not be immune to it.

OC claims cop and that 007 is guilty. Seems obvious that we lynch 007. If 007 is guilty, we know OC is not insane. If 007 is not guilty, then we lynch OC to stop the Lepton's Gambit.

Why would we not lynch 007?

vote: 007 unless someone gives me a good reason why we wouldn't follow a cops lead. OC did you get any useful information? E.g. if you found an innocent, then we know you are a useful cop (or mafia).

-JEEP

beoneknight
centura alba (1)
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I'll just do this: FOS jeep. I believe 007, his story checked out with mafia bandwagoning him, and there was another investigator/mason/whatever that stated that 007 is innocent.

StarmanDeluxeEB
centura alba (1)
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Hmph :(

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

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didn't see this comin', starman, ha? :)

jeep, i guess u didn't follow to much of what was happening yesterday, didn't u? ...please do so an reconsider ur vote...i'm not gonna acuse u of nothin for now...i guess u are just a little bit confused!

i re-read the posts and i have a
FOS for captain blicero
...he voted and unvoted basicly jumping on every bandvagon posible and also i'm fos-ing him for defending starmandeluxe in #95 after i acused the guy of being mafia!

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: 007 at: 9/25/02 7:40:02 am
ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(9/25/02 5:38:47 am)
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Last night's investigation result: Neo == innocent.

From your standpoint as a Townie, four possibilities:

1. I'm sane, 007 is Mafia, Neo is innocent.
2. I'm insane, 007 is innocent, Neo is Mafia.
3. I'm random, radwulf gets killed first night next game we're in together.
4. I'm lying to you all, and this is some huge bluff, which is really smart because there's one Mafia down already. NOT. Obviously #4 is false but I have to include it.

So, either 007 or Neo, people, from my standpoint. I'm actually going to hold off voting until I see some debate.

jeep, don't tell me you subscribe to Antrax's auto-fire rule. There are cases in which it's good, and cases in which it's not so good. Just like a Cop coming out on the first Day. FOS: jeep. You're too good of a player to make such a silly comment, either you haven't read what's going on or you're just that extra bit more suspicious.

Good job psychopath...although the name 'psychopath' doesn't exactly sound like your goal is to help the Town.

Ahri
unregistered user
(9/25/02 7:31:35 am)
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I'm sorry but right now I believe OC is random. And I'm FOS axetil and Captain Blicero for their eagerness to kill and bandwagoning respectively. I'd write more but I dun feel well. Later.

jeep
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 44
(9/25/02 8:24:15 am)
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unvote: 007

Hmm... I guess I didn't read close enough. That probably comes from me trying to catch up while I'm at work. 007 was backed by another as a mason??

I will need to re-read. I don't believe in auto-fire, but I refuse to allow the 'double Lepton' to become a viable strategy. You always have to evaluate the situation, but it is the responsibility of the cop to have some idea of his/her sanity before explicitly revealing.

I'll try to get this re-read during lunch tomorrow.

-JEEP

Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
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Um.... guys?
While you're re-reading the thread, do a little check and see who first proposed a no-lynch, and stuck to it right to the end. Yeah, it was me. Post 70.

The only person I ever voted for was Wonko (waaay back in post 40). Bandwagon hopping? Which thread are you guys reading?

007 - my bad about Starman... I criticized you for voting him because I wanted a no-lynch, not because I was sure he was innocent.

But remember, you had racked up 4 votes yourself when I called for the no-lynch. If I wanted a bandwagon, I would've voted for you and been vote 5. But I didn't. Calling me a "bandwagon-hopper" is way out of line and completely false. Wonko is still OMGUS'ing me for my early vote, but you've got no excuse. Get off my back.

joesatri
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 49
(9/25/02 10:29:22 am)
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Re: 136
Mornin'..
Glad to see the outcome of the night...
Nice goin' SK... 1 scum down!
I dare say.. a 1:1 in the 2nd night.. aint bad..

Well.. i'm @ work.. so.. i'll be keepin' an eye on this.. but i can't write more now..
just wanted to check in.


:.:.: [delirious] :.:.: the power always comes from above :.:.:

Needforspeed001
centura alba (1)
Posts: 7
(9/25/02 7:13:44 pm)
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Good Morning my fellow citizens. (loong stretch and yahn)
I could not be happier when i read the news this morning and saw that at least a mafia scum has perished. And ot top of all things he drowned in his own kitchen sink? Ha.
Now as for our poor townie all i can say is i request a moment of silence for the dead.
Now back to bussiness. It seems that people are still confused concerning who's who. but who am i to tell you that i know better, cause i dont. all i can say is that i need to observe some more and then after serious debate come to some conclusions. But for now i am one of the believers that says that 007 is clean. Forgive me if you think im wrong.

CIAO: Keep the rubber side down. A.K.A. Speedevil. Be a safe driver!

andreeahef
centura alba (1)
Posts: 12
(9/25/02 7:49:17 pm)
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138.Breakfast is served....
With less mafia at the table,I'm lovin' that!!This is going alright so far, but we don't have an extreme lot to go by right now.I'll just state that my finger points to Ahri and Neo right now, for the way they like to jump to accusations and vote when there isn't really that much evidence to support their decision,I'll just wait and see what happens and then make a more in depth statement,for now I'll watch and wait...:albpengr

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
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(9/25/02 8:04:01 pm)
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Just a quick note....

Blicero, I'm not OMGUSing you based on your early vote for me. Rather, I still think that your FOS on Diplomat was a bit strange and unprovoked. But then it was only a FOS.

I also think that since I have a FOS on OC for the unresolved situation of yesterday, I should have one on 007 as they're both involved. My suspicion of him has declined somewhat, like I said, but some still remains. I also don't like his anti-Blicero post (#131) because as far as I saw from skimming the posts, Blicero hasn't been bandwagoning (the closest he came was to FOS Diplomat before Starman's vote....Starman was the bandwagoner in that one). So I point my other FOS on 007.

We have to find some way to resolve the 007/OC question.

My status: FOS on 007 and OC.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/25/02 9:06:53 pm
andreeahef
centura alba (1)
Posts: 13
(9/26/02 1:43:15 am)
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140.This is a repeat message,I repeat, a repeat message!!!
:microfon I realize I've already gone over this twice,but obviously I need to stress it again,I'm positive that 007 is not mafia,please concentrate your thoughts,efforts,fingers, whatever on someone worthwhile so we don't end up wasting time in the end,let's hunt!!!:ninja
If anybody cares, my opinions,still quite suspicious but no more, are in my last post...Bonne Chance:)

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 475
(9/26/02 1:47:04 am)
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captain blicero

1.so u say u were not trying to bandvagon , captain blicero? how about the time that u voted wonko(40) right after jeep's vote on him(26) based on nothing i'd say...and then u unvoted , again, right after jeep did! ohh, that looks like banvagoning , alright!

2.
Quote:
007 - my bad about Starman... I criticized you for voting him because I wanted a no-lynch, not because I was sure he was innocent
...hm let's see:

Quote:
007: Stop trying to get people lynched. Not everyone who votes for you is mafia.


ha! well from what i can see right here it's very clear that u WERE defending starman(more than u were defending the ideea of nolynch) using crap logic also!
not everyone who votes for me is mafia but in the situation i was, voting for me, ignoring anything that was said( exactly what starman did) was a good step for the scum(s)! my acuzation towards starman had a good logic behind it and u chose to ignore that and defend him trying to say that i had no reason to acuze him! i'm sorry but that was ur mistake or ur premeditated action and be sure that i'm not gonna get of ur back that easy!

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/26/02 2:25:06 am
jeep
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 45
(9/26/02 3:03:54 am)
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Is this about right:
OC- claims cop: 007=guilty and Neo=Not guilty
007- claims doc: protected neo night 1 and probably OC night 2
Andreeahef- first hand knowledge of 007 innocence and not cop

Andreeahef, you are not a cop, yet you know 007 is not mafia? I doubt that 007 and you are masons. I notice you don't say that 007 is not evil. Is it possible that he is psychopath? I think you should reveal how you know this. You know he's not mafia and OC knows he is evil...??

So we can suspect that Neo is less likely to be mafia due to 007's claim of protecting him. Yet if we believe 007 is innocent, then he is more likely to be mafia because OC's investigation.

Andreeahef, I strongly urge you to reveal how you know 007 is innocent if you are not an investigator. The only scenarios I can think of are either unbalanced or involve cheating. I would like to know what the legitimate way you know this is.

So no kills first night and two on the second?? We must have very lucky docs.

-JEEP

StarmanDeluxeEB
centura alba (1)
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(9/26/02 6:36:27 am)
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*haunts the Serial Killer*

My faaaammmmiiiillllyyyyy shaaaalllll avvveeeenggggeee myyyyy deaatttttttthhhhh...

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/26/02 7:04:30 am
Needforspeed001
centura alba (1)
Posts: 8
(9/26/02 7:34:01 am)
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Before i forget:microfon il be out of town till sunday sometime, so forgive me for not writing in the mean time. :ingeras and before i forget STARMANDELUXEEB looks like you have some unfinnished bussiness here. Leave us the living alone. You are dust now. BUSTED:rollin
Ok thats probably enough of that. And in connection to ANDREEAHEF's message: Who are you ? I mean i wrote that so far i believe 007 to be enocent, but you not beeing a cop or investigator, how you know for such sureness that he is innocent? Am i missing some important point here? who are you? Please explain your message from above.

CIAO: Keep the rubber side down. A.K.A. Speedevil. Be a safe driver!

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/26/02 7:47:20 am
beoneknigh
unregistered user
(9/26/02 8:02:04 am)
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I'll join the rest in asking ANDREEAHEF to reveal some details of his role, but for now here are some speculations:

007 claimed to be the doc, and not only that, he also claimed to be a mason with another doctor. I do not believe ANDREEAHEF to be that doc, since he would not have come out. Mafia bandwagonned on 007 so i'm sure he is not mafia, is he a serial killer? that i'm not sure of,but i'm leaning towards a strong no.

Having said that, i'm willing to follow 007s or ANDREEAHEF's vote....

We can find out some info by lynching Neo, but i'd rather not do that right now, the only piece of iinfo which i do not agree with was post # 100, but at the time it sorta made sense.

Waiting for ANDREEAHEF's response.....

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 34
(9/26/02 8:53:07 am)
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The people I believe are innocent (besides myself :) ) are 007, OC, Wonko, and probably Andreeahef.
My reasons are that 007 voted for Starman once, OC wouldn't come out as a cop if he were mafia, and Wonko accused Starman yesterday because of his reaction to my early post.
My instinct tells me andreeahef is probably not mafia. It's possible that he is a cop. In that case, I don't think he should reveal that. When someone says they have evidence of someone else's innocense, I usually don't question their statement immediately.
In addition, my impression of radwulf's games from his chat room is that there is more likely to be an insane cop than a random cop. That's why I'd like to vote: Neo. He hasn't said much in the way of opinion. Most of his posts are neutral, like explaining the various cop roles. If you look back, Starman has written similar posts. And FOS: Captain Blicero for his reaction to my "good doctor" post. It worked for Starman.

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(9/26/02 9:22:02 am)
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Random really isn't used very often.

GL Mafia 42 - vigilante cops had a chance of going insane and getting random results
GL Lord of the Rings - being moderated by Macros, who likes his Random Cops, it probably has some.
Mafiascum.net Mini 3 - (moderator = Neo) had a Random Cop
Mafiascum.net Mini 4 - (moderator = querci) had a Random Cop

That's four games out of maybe 100 on the Internet.

It's possible though. I'm going to be quite unhappy if I'm random.

andreeahef
centura alba (1)
Posts: 14
(9/26/02 9:56:54 am)
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148.Alright alright!!!
MAn oh man,trust is just a memory around here,but then again we are dealing with some secretive and sneaky people here.I'm not one to go for revealing roles but since everyone insists on knowing,as if it'll make much of a difference here goes,I work in a gun shop...and I get to know who has weapons or not.This is the reason I declared oo7 an innocent man.I don't know if a mafia dude can actually kill someone without a weapon, which is why I didn't right away say that he's not evil to those wondering,but thinking about it...I don't see how he'd be able to kill people without something to kill them with...hence his innocence.Still waiting to hear from the suspicious people I mentioned before,added to the list are Neo and Captain Blicero,waiting for responses from them patiently.Let's hunt....

joesatri
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 50
(9/26/02 10:55:56 am)
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This is gettin' kinda ugly..

Andreeahef claims to work in a gun store....
What kinda gun do u think the psychopath bought when he killed Starman?
Drowned in the sink.. did he come and buy water from you? :)

So.. andreeahef, you're not makin' a lot of sense here..
Especially after Starman was killed, and you KNOW how he died...
Don't know what to think of this..

007 did seem clean to me.. but after u came and claimed your role..
so.. another possibility comes up...

OC = normal cop, 007 = psycopath (guilty), NEO = innocent...
the problem with this is that.. Neo doesn't *seem* innocent..

so.. this is weird..

i'm just gonna ***FOS ANDREEAHEF 007 and NEO ***


:.:.: [delirious] :.:.: the power always comes from above :.:.:

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/26/02 10:57:21 am
Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
Posts: 12
(9/26/02 1:20:48 pm)
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I think our highest priority should be resolving the OC situation. So, I'll pick OC's option #2 (Neo=mafia, 007=innocent), because I definitely don't want to lynch 007 today. Either he's a doc, and we don't EVER want to lynch him, or he's the SK, and we don't want to kill him the day after he got rid of a mobster (that would be some serious bad karma :admones )

vote: Neo

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 477
(9/26/02 3:39:34 pm)
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beoneknight
Quote:
007 claimed to be the doc, and not only that, he also claimed to be a mason with another doctor.


w00t? yeah i am a doc but i NEVER said i am a mason! where did get that from? :derutat

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

jeep
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 46
(9/26/02 8:21:29 pm)
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007- thanks for clearing up that you never claimed mason, because I never saw it and I was sure I had read the whole thread.

ANDREEAHEF- Thank you for clarifying your role. You should indeed know if he is mafia or not. You probably won't find the serial killer, though. :( And certainly, no one is going to trust you (or anyone, I hope) blindly. I mistook your statement that you were not a cop and thought you meant you were not an investigator.

NEO- claim a role, looks like your the most logical choice for the lynch. I'll wait for you to respond, but I plan on voting you. *** FOS: NEO ***

Diplomat A- just because someone voted or FOS'd a mafia doesn't mean they're innocent. It's a common tactic to vote for your family or FOS them in order to disassociate yourself with them.

-JEEP

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 37
(9/26/02 9:36:35 pm)
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I have a couple of cents to add...

First of all, assuming the truth of andreeahef's role claim, the question comes to mind whether he would know about the godfather's possession of a gun. Cops can't "see" godfathers -- it would seem logical that such a game limitation would extend to all "investigative" roles. I am using the word "investigative" very broadly -- basically anyone with inside info on others in the game. This limitation could be explained narratively by a mafia member buying a gun for the godfather. Anyway, the reason I bring this up is that the following scenario is vaguely plausible (keep in mind I'm assuming andreeahef is honest about his role):

1)OC is insane cop (negative answers)
2)Thus he got a "guilty" on 007, who may be the godfather, therefore "innocent" if a normal cop investigates. As godfather, he doesn't own a gun (or at least didn't purchase one).
3)He got an "innocent" on Neo, who is mafia. This is corroborated by andreeahef's claim that he owns a gun.

Now I am not saying that I am convinced or even believe that the above is true. It's just another scenario that fits the fact pattern.

I believe andreeahef's role claim on a probationary basis. Meaning let's assume it's true and test it. It should be easy to test -- if we lynch a person andreeahef said owns a gun, his death-revealed role should justify owning a gun. Thus I unFOS OC and 007. Their situation can be more easily cleared once we have confirmed andreeahef's role.

I FOS Neo and Captain Blicero. A vote will be coming shortly. Right now I lean towards Neo because that will help clear up 007/OC as well. But first I would like andreeahef to list ALL the people that he knows to have guns. This is both to confirm his role and to use as reference in case he doesn't wake up one morning. Actually, it might prevent the not waking up from happening if we know what he knows because then he becomes just another townie -- unless people can still buy guns, in which case he would still be a useful asset (i.e. a good target for mafia. docs take notice).

beoneknight
centura alba (1)
Posts: 17
(9/27/02 12:24:31 am)
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Guess i was wrong about the mason thingy.... i got that from a couple of posts: here are the ones i got that from: post 71 and 83

quotes from 007:

see, i saved neo last night but ithat doesn't necceserly mean he is innocent!..i strongly thing there are more doctors in this game....un get it?..understant what i'm saying...? so..



from # 83
99.999% that i am not the only doc in this game!


Now for the more conrete portion of my post: Wonko, i do not believe that posting the ownership of guns in this game would lead to very productive results: i believe that not only mafia own them i.e.: cops, vigelantees, etc etc have them too. Making such a list would create very ez targets for mafia. So this should be done with great care.

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 38
(9/27/02 12:54:21 am)
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Hmm, I thought that andreeahef has already told us who has the guns (i.e. added Neo and Blicero to the list he previously gave us):
Quote:
Still waiting to hear from the suspicious people I mentioned before,added to the list are Neo and Captain Blicero,waiting for responses from them patiently.Let's hunt....

I asked for the list again just to have it all in one place and to separate confirmed gunowners from mere suspicious people. But assuming andreeahef hasn't told us all the people who bought guns at his shop, you could be right about the danger to vigilantes. As far as cops are concerned, I thought about it, and I don't think they would be on andreeahef's list. Two reasons: 1)they have no gun powers in this game, so they shouldn't have guns, and 2)cops don't usually buy guns in gunshops. Finally, since I was acting on the assumption he's told us the gunowners already (in his two posts where he lists ppl he suspects) and he hadn't mentioned OC, I figured cops don't have guns.

So, andreeahef, make the call whether to give us the list or not. If you think it lists cops, I would say don't give it to us. If you already told us everyone on your list, then it's too late and you might as well relist it in one place for convenience like I asked. If you know it doesn't list cops, though, and you haven't told us everyone on it, then I think publishing it will ensure your safety or at least ensure the information doesn't die with you in case you go...

Finally, if you do choose to withhold names because you think there is a danger to potential cops, you should ask for doc protection. This is because if you're wrong about the ones you're withholding and they're mafia, they'll probably want to silence you before you tell us who they are...

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

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...k, people stop callin' adreeahef a "he" :)

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/27/02 2:47:49 am
007
Admin
centura maro (5)

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i hope everyone who voted for neo( or is planning to) knows that lynching him would not give us certain and 100% corect info!..as it was or it wasn't exactly said oc could be any kind of cop...i would tell u to read the list with possible roles(mafia discussion) but its in romanian...sigh...

anyways, what i'm worried about is finding out neo is innocent and then u guys thinking that i might be the mafia...its totaly wrong....oc could be random cop(random results), beginner cop (somethimes the results are wrong) and so on and so forward...(if u know radwulf u sould know that he likes to make his games as twisted as they can be...hard to play but extremely interesting and fun)..

i'm not saying that we souldn't do something about this but as far as i'm cocerned i would give it a rest for now...
i'm not that convinced i wanna lynch neo...he's a valuable player i don't really have anything to acuze him of(its true that i don't like the fact that he didn't really help by now...just few words now and then), just the fact that he is probably the best choice for lynching to "resolv" the 007/oc situation....that, ASSUMING that , our mod, radwulf didn't give oc one of the "cop roles" i mentioned above!

well...i guess i'm kind of waiting on CAPTAIN BLICERO'S feedback regarding my acusations!

my FOS remanins on CAPTAIN BLICERO..getting ready to change maybe in a vote...

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/27/02 2:48:25 am
jeep
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 47
(9/27/02 3:04:20 am)
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Quote:
if we lynch a person andreeahef said owns a gun


This assumes that Andreaahef had investigated a person who bought a gun, which seems unlikely. You ask Andreeahef to reveal "the list" but it should only contain two names now... Also, we have to take care, because cops are bound to own guns, as will a vigilante, etc.

In previous games, the gun owner has been able to see that the godfather owns a gun. One of the best games I've read had a gun owner role (was it Mafia 24 on GL?). That's the way it worked there.

-JEEP

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 39
(9/27/02 3:29:16 am)
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Wait, so the owner has to actually investigate a person to find out if they have a gun or not? In that case two different investigators checked out 007 on the first night. I don't know how the gunshop owner role works, maybe andrea could address that -- do you investigate each night or do you know from the beginning who has the guns? (btw I wasn't sure if it was andrea or andre something...:derutat )

And, jeep, you didn't address my comments about cops having guns. On the one hand, it would be unreasonable for them to show up as having guns because an investigator should only see things related to the game -- cops in this game do not get to use guns. On the other, they are cops, and cops have guns in most countries. On the third hand (?), a cop doesn't get a gun from a gun shop. So........would cops show up as having guns to the gun shop owner?

And finally, I am now completely lost as to who was found to own guns....I had thought that 007 was a negative and that Neo and Blicero were positives.....that's what I got out of andrea's post. I see now that I probably misinterpreted it. In that case, who is the second person that was investigated (if that is in fact how this gun thing works...)?

jeep
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 48
(9/27/02 3:55:23 am)
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Well, this is from mafiascum:
Quote:

Gunsmith
The Gunsmith can check one customer each night, and finds out whether that player has a gun (Mafia, Cops, Detective, Vigilante, Army Veteran).



But every mod might make adjustments. I suspect that cops will show up as having a gun.

-JEEP

Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
Posts: 13
(9/27/02 4:03:36 am)
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007... do you even read what I write?

Yes, I "defended" Starman because I thought a no-lynch was our best option. I also defended you, again, because I wanted no lynch. As it turns out, Starman was scum. You were right, I was wrong, but at the time, I didn't think the evidence was sufficient against Starman.

as for your "bandwagoning" charge:
Quote:
u voted wonko(40) right after jeep's vote on him(26) based on nothing i'd say...and then u unvoted , again, right after jeep did! ohh, that looks like banvagoning , alright!

... yeah, well that's because I'm jeep's gay lover[/end sarcasm]. Either that, or I voted Wonko, then thought he adequately defended himself, so unvoted him. Pick whichever scenario you like, but remember that you're accusing me on the basis of one first day vote.

And a quick question for you, 007 -- Why not vote for Neo and prove your innocence to everyone? This is a great chance to clear your name.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/27/02 4:30:00 am
007
Admin
centura maro (5)

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captain blicero
answer: #157

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Neo
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 50
(9/27/02 5:05:10 am)
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I have reason to believe that if a doctor is lynched or killed, that it is not a role completely lost.

vote 007 because voting for a person found guilty by cops is the most logical. Mafia usually always claim doc.

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 481
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...yeah...very convincing and deep neo!
at least claim a role dude! u can't even do that? what u are doing its kind of patetic...buuutt, i guess u know what u are doing, riiiight?
..well i guess u don't leave me much to say but: vote: neo
...hoping radwulf doesn't have a "cop surprise" for us

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: 007 at: 9/27/02 7:16:19 am
007
Admin
centura maro (5)

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Quote:
I have reason to believe that if a doctor is lynched or killed, that it is not a role completely lost.
...neo



....no comments...

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 843
(9/27/02 7:09:07 pm)
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Vote count! (please report errors)
8 to lynch, 5 at deadline

neo: 2 (captain blicero, 007)
007: 1 (neo)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/27/02 7:39:40 pm
andreeahef
centura alba (1)
Posts: 15
(9/27/02 7:20:21 pm)
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167 Whoa again!!!
First of all joesatri, you weren't making much sense with that comment of yours about me whatever it is you think I'm trying to pull cause I'm not,I don't know a lot about hte role but I'm going to tell you what I do know.It just really weirds me out as to why you would FOS me,I don't get what would support that decision anyways..but yeah here goes:
For all of you worried about revealing the list...there are only two people I have info on since there have been 2 noghts right?RIGHT!!The 2 people are both gunless,as in they do not have a gun,still with me?The 2 people were oo7 and Wonko.
As for Neo and all my other people on the "suspicious of" list, they are my own personal suspicions, as in people I wanted to hear from:Neo,Captain Blicero etc..although there have been some weird comments so far,NEO?What are you doin'?
As was mentioned in one of the earlier posts,this gunshop role guy thing apparently can find out if anyone has guns,which makes a lot of sense to me b/c there wouldn't be any point in making up a role that can just find out who bought weapons from a gunstore b/c that would almost rule all the important people out...so...I figure that this was the best and clearest name to describe a townie who can simply figure out whether a person has a weapon,aka guilty, or not=not guilty.I didn't think this would become such an issue, but clearly its gotten everybody thinking and asking a lot about it.
I don't think I need doctor protection b/c I don't see this as the most crucial role in the town right now and I would figure that if this mafia had some knowledge of what they are doing,they wouldn't find a plusible reason in killing me,if they did,whatever then,their waste of time.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/27/02 7:26:31 pm
andreeahef
centura alba (1)
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(9/27/02 7:31:16 pm)
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168.Alright let's review for certainty's sake...
So I hope we all understand this roel right now...
I haven't yet found a person WITH a gun only two people without them, and due to the wide ranges of this role, I'm going to assume that they are both innocent as jeep's extract explained and as common sense of the purpose of creating such a role would suggest...guilty/not is what I think!
I don't know why I'm being FOSed,but clearly it's for the wrong reasons or just simple misunderstanding of facts...anyways
Neo,like I said,what are you doing?
Why?
Man oh man,what next?FOS:Neo,captain blicero cause I don't know what you guys are standing on and how you see things from there...:albpengr
P.S....:aplauze thanks for the clear-up oo7,that was hilarious,I was actually getting used to the "him" thing,cracks me up though!!:asama

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/27/02 7:40:57 pm
Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
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(9/27/02 8:38:47 pm)
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I can see clearly now, the rain is gone....

I'm taking off for the weekend and I probably won't be able to post until either Sunday night or Monday morning. We weren't given a deadline (again), so I feel that I should put in a vote in case that deadline expires before I return.

The way I see it, the 007/OC/Neo dilemma is the only solid thing we have to go on. We do have some less solid leads as well: Blicero's alleged behavior, etc. I think it is extremely important to try to resolve OC's role -- and while lynching Neo may not provide a definitive answer, it will at the very least give us some idea as to what's going on. Thus I vote Neo.

Perhaps an alternative to lynching Neo would be for andrea to investigate him tonight?

Andrea, as jeep pointed out (from experience in mafia games), cops most likely DO show up as owning guns. So your guilty/not guilty analysis may be off by a bit.

Have a great weekend, fellow town-dwellers. I will check back in a couple of days.

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(9/27/02 10:33:37 pm)
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Neo's "hey, I might be a Doc too" defense seems a bit more calculated (he never explicitly says he's a Doc, so he can claim a different role later if he needs to, but he hints at it just the same. Then he says Mafia always claim Doc, which can be reverse pyschology...obviously if he were Mafia he'd never try something like that.)

Of course, this is assuming Neo is Mafia. Which he may be. And I hope I'm not Insane. Vote: Neo

Oh, and if anyone wants to translate role ideas in Mafia Discussion into English? Pretty please... :)

jeep
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 49
(9/28/02 12:17:20 am)
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It's generally good to follow a cop with information.

vote: Neo Umm... you found Neo guilty and you vote for him saying you hope you're NOT insane... don't you mean that you hope you are insane?

-JEEP

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

Posts: 483
(9/28/02 1:31:17 am)
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adreeahef

for the future please don't give out names when u find someone innocent , in a two mafia parties game,UNLESS is very necesary, crucial!...u just did a favor to the bad guys revealing the second name ..:(

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Edited by: 007 at: 9/28/02 1:59:39 am
axetil
unregistered user
(9/28/02 2:19:48 am)
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I haven't written for a while, but I've skimmed the arguements, and decided to do a little bandwagoning - vote: Neo

for the following reasons:

1. to resolve as quickly as possible the neo/007/oc thing, so that carefully reading the past posts having to do with it becomes unnecessary

2. to do something a little suspicious to keep me out of the mafia's headlights:)

007: if your the (a) doc, please try to save me tonight - I might be able to return the favor:)

andreeahef
centura alba (1)
Posts: 17
(9/28/02 2:28:41 am)
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173.aha...:(
I see what you're saying there oo7,however,I don't see it as a huge problem as there are many of us known to be innocent at this poitn kinda making the chances of getting killed pretty even for any of us, and all the same...
I was going to check on oc last night,but if he claims to be a cop and he is he would have a weapon,same with if he was mafia,soo,that won't get us very far...
Something else is pretty clear right now and so I want to vote:NEO
you messed up buddy and I already told you..

beoneknight
centura alba (1)
Posts: 18
(9/28/02 2:43:42 am)
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just following blindly those i believe to be innoscent: vote NE

beoneknight
centura alba (1)
Posts: 19
(9/28/02 3:27:01 am)
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just a suggestion, should we put off the whole neo/oo7/oc thing till tomorrow because ANDREEAHEF can investigate neo tonight and we will have more info to go on tomorrow? in the mean time we can lynch the next person in line....

andreeahef
centura alba (1)
Posts: 18
(9/28/02 5:05:47 am)
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177.ummmm...
Beoneknight, I would normally totally agree with your suggestion,but seeing as I have a feeling he is mafia,enogh to vote for him obviously,I don't think I would make it till tomorow...
If he is mafia he'll have me killed before I can tell people the results or some other mafia person might kill me meanwhile too,so, I think we should go for it,but hey,whatever the majority agrees on is fine with me.We have to use the resources that the town has been blessed woth,to the best of our abilities right?
Well,it's the town's decision then!:rollin

007
Admin
centura maro (5)

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hmm...thinking about it beoneknight....naaahhh, i like this better: confirm vote :neo...basicly , i'm really pissed cause of his vague way of playin...hope this is gonna give us very useful info!

________________________________________________________________________________
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. / Douglas Adams --Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 844
(9/28/02 8:25:48 am)
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Final Vote count! (please report errors)
8 to lynch, 5 at deadline

neo: 8 (diplomat, captain blicero, 007, wonko the sane, ornamental cabbage, jeep, axetil, beoneknight)
007: 1 (neo)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/28/02 9:04:58 am
ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(9/28/02 9:03:08 am)
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Regarding my last post, it should say "I hope I'm not Random." Don't know what I was thinking.

OC

radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 845
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The townies decide Neo has displayed a somewhat indiferent and anti-social behavior towards them; and the rumors about the mysterious books he's studying at home all night, do nothing to help his case. The enraged crowd quickly makes up its collective mind to lynch him, and tears him to pieces before he has a chance to say much in his defense.

At his house, they find a human skeleton, dissected animals, and anatomy books.


Congratulations townies, in the great tradition of the Ro Mafia Club, your first lynch is a follower of Hippocrates. Neo was studying medicine, hoping to become a doctor some day.

Neo (student of medicine) has been lynched! It is now NIGHT, send choices within 72 hours (choices not sent will be decided randomly by me).

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/28/02 10:17:41 am
radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 855
(9/30/02 6:42:49 am)
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Ahri, wakes up in the middle of the night with an uninvited guest in her room.
- Your ability to pardon people constitutes an unacceptable interference with the mob justice. I beg your pardon mayor, you must die!

A lone gunman finds 007 unconscious in his bathroom. Not trusting someone else's killing expertise, the gunman empties the contents of an entire AK-47 magazine in 007's body.

In the morning, 007 is found riddled with bullets, and with a piano string tied up around his neck. His clenched hand is still holding the scalpel that he tried to defend himself with, but the poor doc never stood a chance, really; too many people were out to get him.


Ahri (mayor) has been killed by the mafia, and 007 (doctor) has been killed by the psycopath and a vigilante! It is now day, 6 votes are required for lynching, 4 if no one has majority at deadline. The day will last approximatively a week.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/1/02 9:26:19 am
ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(9/30/02 7:32:48 am)
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Wonderful. Just plain wonderful. (That's sarcasm, by the way.)

It looks like I'm Random. If you want to lynch me, go ahead, although it's not the best idea in my opinion (sure, I'm useless as a Cop, but I am on the Town's side and I certainly have gotten people to talk.)

I believe we currently have these claims:

andrea - Gunsmith
OC - Cop (looks like Random)
Wonko - gunless by andrea

I'm not going to cast any vote yet. I'll let the Town decide what to do with me first. But I am on the Town's side.

beoneknight
centura alba (1)
Posts: 20
(9/30/02 7:38:42 am)
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Agreed with ornamental cabbage....
i'm going to treat all of these three claims as true. I believe oc to be the cop, andrea the gunsmith and wonko to be gunless. I'll try to go from here.

andreeahef
centura alba (1)
Posts: 20
(9/30/02 8:12:37 am)
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185.G'Day
vote:Captain Blicero
:akm Explain yourself out of this one CAP'!!

Edited by: radwulf at: 9/30/02 8:14:21 am
jeep
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 50
(9/30/02 9:42:46 am)
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OK, Captain Blicero, you have been accused by an investigator... claim your role.

vote: Captain Blicero

A note to everyone else, let's make sure CB has a chance to speak before getting lynched.

-JEEP

joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 51
(9/30/02 10:25:30 am)
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Re: 187
This is SO bad..
This couldn't be worse...

I think OC has been messin' with us all along..
Check this out:

OC is mafia
He knows 007 and NEO are not mafia.. so..
He claims a cop role, accusing one and sayin' the other one is innocent.
This way.. we would think.. he's on the town's side, being a cop, and he *proves* that he is random.
Being random, he can say whatever he likes, without having any kind of responsability.

So.. i think this was just a very clever way of killin' two ppl, and make him seem a nice guy, on the town's side.
And.. unfortunately, both of them were docs... (well.. Neo was not a doc yet...)

so, i say vote OC


:.:.: [delirious] :.:.: the power always comes from above :.:.:

Edited by: joesatri at: 9/30/02 10:31:02 am
Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 41
(9/30/02 5:13:38 pm)
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I think we should get rid of Blicero first -- he's seemed suspicious all along -- but listening to his possible defense is important.

As far as OC goes, I've said from the beginning that it's a possibility either he or 007 or both are mafia. It would have been a gutsy move on OC's part, but anything is possible. I would suggest that perhaps he is a good next target for investigation... For now I FOS OC. Somehow, though, it doesn't seem like a gambit the mafia would use.....at best it would get 2 townies killed for 1 mafia (they couldn't have known 2 docs would die!)....because we would obviously be under suspicion if he proved to be wrong, despite his Random claim. But then again, 2 townies by day and two nights is 4 townies max for one mafia -- not a horrible trade I guess.

I vote Captain Blicero.

Needforspeed001
centura alba (1)
Posts: 10
(9/30/02 6:54:49 pm)
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what a mess! How in the world we are killin' off each other. I just got back in town and saw this big mess. I will try to make some sense by tonight and perhaps even come up with a vote. Mafia's got to go :vigilante

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 42
(10/1/02 5:08:52 am)
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I was reading some information on mafiascum.net regarding various roles, and I think I may know what a Student of Medicine is. Unless the student role is explained differently on the Ro Mafia website somewhere [in Romanian], I believe that the student of medicine is akin to the retired Cop role -- the retired Cop is inactive until the death of the actual Cop, when it becomes an active Cop. I think Neo tried to tell us that his role was to replace a killed Doc in post #163:
Quote:
I have reason to believe that if a doctor is lynched or killed, that it is not a role completely lost.

vote 007 because voting for a person found guilty by cops is the most logical. Mafia usually always claim doc.
This looks like his justification for voting for a suspected Doc. So, just a thought. How lucky we are to have lost both in one night.

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 35
(10/1/02 5:22:21 am)
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I wish Neo would have said something. He was very obscure in his defense. But we can't show the mafia and other evil guys that we won't lynch them if they don't defend themselves.

Also, why would the lone gunman carry with him a loud assault rifle? Kind of an amusing detail. Wouldn't it be more convenient to carry a suppressed pistol?

Anyway, whoever killed 007 wasn't very smart in doing so. If he was alive, the town would have thought that OC is a normal cop, and lynched 007. Now we know he's either a random cop or mafia/serial kiler. For now, I'm going to assume he's not mafia. In addition, I think we may have 2 other killers in addition to the mafia.

Edited by: Diplomat A at: 10/1/02 5:24:01 am
andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 23
(10/1/02 7:41:23 am)
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192.Whoa there now!!!
Let's take this one step at a time, Captain Blicero goes first!Haven't even heard him complain about it yet...so I'm asuming he knows it's over for him.OO7 can't be mafia cause he doesn't have a weapon or a random cop,I thought we cleared that up...but yeah moving on..

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 43
(10/1/02 7:54:20 am)
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193 Whoa your Whoa
I think you confused 007 with OC. 007, the doc, is dead. And you haven't investigated OC, as far as I am aware. Diplomat A was talking about OC...

Also, let me just make sure I understand your previous post: Captain Blicero has a gun, correct? I think we all assumed this [I did], so let me just be absolutely sure of it before we condemn him...

And I do think we should give him some time to make a defense. I think he would have responded if he had seen the thread. There is no rush, we can wait a day or so before hanging somebody. . .

Needforspeed001
centura alba (1)
Posts: 12
(10/1/02 7:57:55 pm)
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194 Suspicios guns
Well, well, what a day. I must say, captain Blicero you are on my black list. Since we have killed our good players like Neo ans OO7 (who seems to be killed always within the first 3 days) might as well try some new ones, and CB fits that profile. so
:coasa VOTE CAPTAIN BLICERO

CIAO: Keep the rubber side down. A.K.A. Speedevil. Be a safe driver!

Edited by: Needforspeed001  at: 10/1/02 9:03:24 pm
beoneknight
centura galbena (2)
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(10/1/02 9:00:01 pm)
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Can we find out whom oc investigated 2day?

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
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It doesn't matter whom OC investigated because if he's a cop, he gets random results.

andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
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197.Replying the Whoa's
:cascat Beg your pardon,I was quite tired and out of it,and I'm still there,but anyways....what's the point of me investigating oc since he'd have a weapon either way?
Yes,captain blicero does have a weapon...this straight talkin's just gonna get me killed one of these nights,but we've gathered a lot of evidence here already!!!GET HIM!!!!-what can he say??I'm waiting for it though,let's see it :pistoale Cap'

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/2/02 3:53:39 am)
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198
He might be a Cop, and if he's a Cop he's probably useful. There's not likely to be two random Cops, although I suppose I wouldn't put something like 1 Sane, 1 Paranoid, 1 Random past radwulf.

Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
Posts: 14
(10/2/02 1:48:59 pm)
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Re: 199
sorry guys.... limited internet access for me for the next day or so. I am the vigilante. I tried to kill 007 after Neo turned up innocent. Whoops. Sorry 007.... i'm an idiot.

Anyway, seeing as how my role is useless now, feel free to lynch me, but I would advise trying to actually kill some mafia. FOS: OC.... i would vote, but no other cops have come forward yet.

joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 52
(10/2/02 2:50:46 pm)
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200
So.. Captain Blicero.. you are the cop?
Would a cop have a AK-47 ? I truly doubt that...
So..

unvote OC
VOTE Captain Blicero

beoneknight
centura galbena (2)
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Man, this isnt cool..... Was hoping captain would claim cop or something... then i wouldn't have a problem voting for him... he has a really good allibi.....

I still want to hear from oc to find out whom he investigated....

Joesatri: he claimed vigillanti, not cop, and thats the fifth vote against him....

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
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(10/4/02 6:44:04 am)
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I wouldn't vote for CB right now. One more vote and he gets lynched. I have a feeling we're wrong on this one as well. If he's evil, he won't survive the game because we already suspect him, and he'll be watched closely.

Anyway, I'm pretty confident that adreeahef can find both mafia and cops. It wouldn't make sense that she would only be able to find the mafia. Then her role would be cop, not gun shop owner.

Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
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(10/4/02 7:46:53 am)
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Joe - When did I ever claim cop? You're damn right I have an AK-47, I'm the friggin' Vigilante.

I can't believe that the only cop in this game is a Random. That leads me to believe that OC is scum, and we have a real cop who is too scared of the mafia to come forward.

vote: OC

Also, if I wind up getting lynched today, nail the scum who casts the deciding vote.

radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 870
(10/4/02 8:00:52 am)
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Vote Count! 6 required for lynching, 4 at deadline
captain blicero: 5 - andreeahef, jeep, wonko the sane, needforspeed, joesatri
ornamental cabbage: 1 - captain blicero

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
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(10/4/02 8:38:17 am)
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205
Unvote Captain Blicero.

I can identify with him, I was a vigilante in the last game and I wasted my kill as well. And he seems honest. Maybe I'm being naive, but he seems it. I would expect a mafia scum to make a more aggressive defense. So for now, I believe he is the vigilante -- but we should keep a close eye on him just to be safe.

Well Blicero, don't feel bad -- although you wasted your one kill, 007 was toast anyway on account of the psychopath. And if you had been revealed as the vigilante before making your one kill, the mafia would have killed you the following night as a precaution [on the off chance that you may keep your kill till later in the game]. So we would have lost another townie. As it is you are safe -- at least as safe as any of us.

Off to bed I must go. I just had a crazy idea though. I don't know if such a move would be allowed in Mafia, but I get the feeling radwulf likes to play with his scenarios -- what if the insane cop was sooooo insane as to be our psychopath as well? That would give him two roles, which is probably not allowed. . . it would be an interesting twist, however.

andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 25
(10/4/02 8:42:53 am)
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206.Yo Townsfolk!
I just want to once again state that my weapons check covers cops,repeat covers cops and mafia.If some dude has a gun he could be both.The question we have to ask ourselves right now would be:is Captain Blicero really a vigilante or is he mafia, oc could be some messed up cop, nice stories sure, for now, but who are the pure mafia here?
That is the question...:\

joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 53
(10/4/02 1:18:23 pm)
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hmm.. ok

We really don't have any proof agains Captain B...
we only know he has a weapon.

He claims the vigilante.. let's stick with that for now..
so.. i go back to my idea..

unvote Captain Blicero
vote OC *

* see post 187

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/4/02 9:26:29 pm)
68.40.40.141
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208
For what it's worth, who says I'm the *only* Cop in the game, Captain Blicero? All I know is I'm a Cop, and it certainly appears I'm Random. If you think lynching me will get you the most information, go for it. If you're just lynching me because you don't like Random Cops, it's a stupid idea. If you believe I'm a Cop, then I'm on the Town's side, useful or not.

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 45
(10/4/02 9:54:33 pm)
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I, too, fail to see the logic behind Blicero's statement regarding OC. He says he cannot believe that there is only a Random cop in the game, therefore OC is mafia and a real cop is hiding. Hmmm...wrong.

How about this: we have at least 2 cops(I HIGHLY doubt a mod would create a 16-player game with only a random cop in it...unless he considered the gunsmith to balance the situation. I doubt it). One of them is random. The other(s) is/are not -- if we only have 2 cops in the game, the other is probably a normal cop. So, some of you ask, why doesn't the normal cop come out? Apparently you haven't noticed that we seem to have a little shortage of doctors in our little town. If a cop came out he would be comitting suicide. Which is another reason why our situation isn't looking so hot. As far as I see it we only have one thing going for us...

Anyways, I have found information that incriminates someone very gravely of being mafia scum. I won't say anything yet -- I believe tonight's events in addition to what I'll say in the morning will make everything very clear.

In addition to all our other problems, we still the question of the psychopath. I am drawing a blank on this one. . . anyone with ideas?

jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 51
(10/5/02 2:05:20 am)
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Wow, CB got really close to getting lynched. I didn't expect there to be THAT much pressure on him.

unvote: CB

So right now I believe ANDREEAHEF, CAPTAIN BLICERO, and ORNAMENTAL CABBAGE. I need to reread the thread to figure out who is most suspicious...

-JEEP

andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 26
(10/5/02 3:49:21 am)
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211.LOL
I don't see how I fit into your equation there Jeep,but whatever logic you're using it's pretty weird...anyways
I don't see why OC would be more suspicious to some of you than CB b/c right now we know pretty much the same facts about each so...wonko, do us the favour of telling us what's on your mind or else this is going to be a no-lyncher and I myself would prefer not to have one of them as we need to get rid of the mafia in the town a.s.a.p.

beoneknight
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 23
(10/5/02 7:47:49 am)
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Here is my case for the lynch today:

I say we go with JOESATRI.

Premise #1: Ahri, a known innocent (dead) foses Joesatri in post # 52. Whatever the reasons were, an innoscent suspected him/her.

#2: post #149 : possibility of 007 being mafia is never mentioned: the two versions were that 007 was a doctor or a psychopath. Joesatri seems sure that 007 is not mafia, the only person who can know for sure who is mafia and who is not isonly mafia. I happened to agree on 007 not being guilty, but you have never explicitly stated the reasoning behind it.

#3: post # 200: that was the fifth vote vs captain blicero after the role that is very very very believeble was claimed.

#4: There has been way too much flip-flopping/ lurking....


vote Joe Satri

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
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(10/5/02 10:21:07 am)
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I'm almost certain there is more than one cop in this game. Whenever there's a crazy cop, there has to be a normal one too.

Yeah, looking back at Joesatri's posts, I don't see very good logic behind them. He's going after people who I believe are innocent and those who turned out to be innocent when they died. He insisted that OC is mafia.
So I will Vote: Joesatri
at least until he claims a plausible role.

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 39
(10/5/02 10:24:34 am)
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214 OT
This is off-topic...

007, I sent you an e-mail to your hotmail account, but it bounced for some reason. Do you have another e-mail address?

[007] try again , alex! i've had some adressees blocked! [/007]

Edited by: 007 at: 10/5/02 3:30:53 pm
BlueEyes
unregistered user
(10/5/02 6:05:15 pm)
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Well good morning ya'll.
Just watching what is going on in here. I think that based on everybody's arguments for now I
FOS: Joesatri

joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 54
(10/5/02 11:23:09 pm)
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Re: 216
Ok.. here's we go beoneknight and company (diplomatA and BlueEyes)

beoneknight:
Quote:

Premise #1: Ahri, a known innocent (dead) foses Joesatri in post # 52. Whatever the reasons were, an innoscent suspected him/her.


What do u mean "whatever the reasons were" ???
That was a 1st day post. First day suspicion, he based his suspicion on BlueEyes's 'feeling'..
And i still think that for the guy that dies the 1st night, it's not fair.. (he signs up for the game.. waits for the role.. and.. he finds out he's dead in

the morning)
On the other hand, i doubt anybody would NOT send a target the 1st night because of that.
Ahri, in his post #52 said:
Quote:

I am mildly suspicious of you because of your whole you think it's unfair for someone to die speech making you seem like "the nice guy", which would go along

with the mafia chose not to kill theory and you are a newbie so you couldn't be sure whether or not your speech would raise anyone's suspicions. In addition,

you made no reply when someone said they were suspicious of you, which could mean that you are an infrequent checker of the msg board or that you realized

that opening your mouth got you in trouble as mafia, and saying more might further incriminate yourself. So instead you might have chosen to hang back and

stay silent in hopes that everyone would forget about any suspicions of you. However, you did say that you were going to hang back anyway, so I'll wait for

your reply before giving you my vote.


I did reply to that, in post #63, and Ahri was satisfied with my reply, he didn't come up with the subject again.
He posted #66, voting for 007, he didn't even mention me.
This was your premise #1.


beoneknight, premise #2:
Quote:

#2: post #149 : possibility of 007 being mafia is never mentioned: the two versions were that 007 was a doctor or a psychopath. Joesatri seems sure that 007

is not mafia, the only person who can know for sure who is mafia and who is not isonly mafia. I happened to agree on 007 not being guilty, but you have never

explicitly stated the reasoning behind it.



if you would read the post i replyed to, (andreeahef's post #148) , you will see that she checked 007, and he does NOT have a weapon.
Therefore, he can't be mafia.
He CAN be the psycho, 'cause the psycho didn't kill with a weapon.
So, i did NOT explicitly state that 007 is NOT guilty, i came up with the 2 possibilities i found.
Psyco or not guilty.
There goes your premise #2..

beoneknight, premise #3:
Quote:

#3: post # 200: that was the fifth vote vs captain blicero after the role that is very very very believeble was claimed.



I re-read the post #182.
For some reason in my mind i have the idea that a vigilante is very similar to a cop, so.. i didn't imagine a vigilante with an AK47.
Re-reading the post, i realized that i missunderstood it.. my bad.
Somehow, after reading it, in my head the only thing about 007's death was killed by the psycho and after that, somebody with an ak47.
i accused CB, with the thought that a cop would not have an AK47. (remember, i had the idea that a cop is very similar to a vigilante)
Quote:

So.. Captain Blicero.. you are the cop?
Would a cop have a AK-47 ? I truly doubt that...


Sorry all for my post #200, big mistake on my part.

*** [Note to self] read mod's posts more carefully. [/Note to self]

beoneknight, premise #4:
Quote:

#4: There has been way too much flip-flopping/ lurking....



This means... ??

So...to end this.. i'm still thinkin' that OC has a good chance of being a scum.
Again, check my post #187. That's what makes me think OC might be guilty.
So i'll keep my vote on him for now..
He's got a good back-up, if andreeahef checks him and finds a gun, he claimed he's a cop, a gun is ok..

Ok.. that will be it for now..


:.:.: [delirious] :.:.: the power always comes from above :.:.:

Needforspeed001 
centura alba (1)
Posts: 14
(10/6/02 8:03:22 am)
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My, oh my. Ok since CB seems to convince us (at least most of his voters, i will take off my voting against him for now. But that just lives me without a vote for anyone else. Maybee good, maybee bad, but hey, at least we got one thing straight. CB is ok. Then again, he killed 007 right? What says he wont kill one of us again?
unvote captain blicero
FOS

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/6/02 9:44:21 am
andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 27
(10/7/02 8:07:55 am)
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218.
When did we find out who did or did not kill 007?
Maybe I'm confused,but who says CB is being truthful here,just cause he claims a cop role or...?hmmm either way,I think we should decide on someone today whether CB,OC or somebody else who's being peculiar,either way we can't just simply say that these two people are our cops the normal one and the crazy one and start looking elsewhere,unless there is a greater threat ti the town,but I haven't seen any evidence yet to suggest anything stronger.By all means, if anyone has anything to share,now would be a good time to step up to the plate!!!

radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 887
(10/7/02 8:12:20 am)
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219
Voting deadline in 72 hrs from now, will post the exact time later.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Needforspeed001 
centura alba (1)
Posts: 16
(10/7/02 8:47:06 am)
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Re: 220
After looking at my earlier post i think i should just make things a bit more clear so il go with VOTE CAPTAIN BLICERO

CIAO: Keep the rubber side down. A.K.A. Speeddevil. Be a safe driver!

Edited by: Needforspeed001  at: 10/7/02 8:53:44 am
joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 55
(10/7/02 10:40:46 am)
80.24.10.3
| Del
221
andreeahef, read radwulf's post 182.
007 was killed by the psycho and the vigilante.

Now regarding CB...
It's obvious that a mafia in a situation like this would claim exactly that role.. the vigilante.

There is something that confuses me...
in #205, Wonko unvotes CB, and in #209, he says:
Quote:

Anyways, I have found information that incriminates someone very gravely of being mafia scum. I won't say anything yet -- I believe tonight's events in addition to what I'll say in the morning will make everything very clear.


I really don't know why he would say that..
I mean.. if he has something that incriminates a mafia.. i don't think the mafia will let him live through the night...
So wonko.. please share with us what u know..
All these.. assuming wonko is not guilty..

So wonko.. ?

Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
Posts: 16
(10/7/02 11:48:06 am)
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Look.... if I was lying about being the vigilante, then it would be a very very simple thing for the REAL vigilante to come forward and say: "Yo! The Captain is lying! I'm the one who shot 007 last night."

Now, SOMEONE filled 007 full of an entire clip of an AK-47. I am saying right here that it was ME. The vigilante role is a one-time kill, so the vigilante is now a harmless townie, and has no need to maintain secrecy anymore. Joe, NeedforSpeed, you guys are making absolutely no sense. I can't kill anyone else.... ONE TIME KILL. If I am mafia, then please, will the real vigilante step forward?

unvote: OC... although I would like to know who you investigated last night
vote: joesatri
FOS: NeedforSpeed

andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 28
(10/7/02 5:34:44 pm)
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223.thanks
I had gotten the part about why 007 died thanks very much,I was just simply saying that we have no sure way of knowing who the psycho/vigilante was,but CB seems pretty sure it was him so...I dunno anymore.
Wonko,how would you have evidence about someone,you're not a cop,I'll assume that you've either made a mistake or something or more likely that you've got some strange role to play here.
Joesatri, you should by now have noticed my one post mentioning that Wonko does not have a weapon, that's probably why he didn't get killed,he's just a dude asfar as we know.

joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 56
(10/7/02 5:51:13 pm)
80.24.10.3
| Del
Re: 224
CB, what's that with your vote for me?? my vote is NOT on you.
i voted OC
check the thread again...

andreeahef, i never said Wonko had a weapon.
I only quoted him. He said he has an information that incriminates a scum.
Now the mafia would kill him for that, don't u think?


:.:.: [delirious] :.:.: the power always comes from above :.:.:

beoneknight
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 24
(10/8/02 1:37:03 am)
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225
needforspeed: y did u vote captain blicero? are you claiming to be a vigillante?


the deadline is getting pretty close.... i'm too lazy to count... could someone post a vote count?

radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 889
(10/8/02 2:55:24 am)
12.248.23.34
| Del
226
Voting Deadline: Wednesday, October 9th 11:59pm US Central (GMT -6)

Vote Count - 6 required for lynching, 4 at deadline
joesatri: 3 - beoneknight, diplomat a, captain blicero,
captain blicero: 2 - andreeahef, needforspeed
ornamental cabbage: 1 - joesatri

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/8/02 2:56:26 am
andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 29
(10/8/02 3:35:05 am)
24.69.255.204
| Del
227.DUDES!
Joesatri, Wonko probably didn't get killed for the very reason that I said he doesn't have a weapon,they're not going to give him top priority just cause he has an idea..but anyway, you're acting weird..I don't know about you...

beoneknight
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 25
(10/8/02 5:01:26 am)
64.109.253.150
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228
the vote deadline is tomorrow..... i'd like to see a role claim from joesatri.... if it is a good one we would have to find a new target, and not a lot of time remains.... anyways, whom did oc investigate today?

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/8/02 5:41:52 am)
68.40.40.141
| Del
229
Bah, if I'm Random it doesn't matter.

I got Wonko as innocent. Tonight I investigate myself.

Needforspeed001 
centura alba (1)
Posts: 18
(10/8/02 8:17:48 am)
172.142.225.70
| Del
230.
Ok. Again the hour passes, and confussion rises. What to do, who to vote, the questions are there, but were are the answers? Simlpy put, i was doing some reading onCB's post and i will unvote him. I do have some FOS. Wonco you know what? Do share what you know about some mafia scum cause from what you write you are not clever whether you are innocent or not so, i got to go with voting you unless you clean yourself up. You know, you never said who that scum may be, but you say you know someting. we as the people of the town are curious what you came up with, so dont live me out ok? Here is what i have read from your latest post and if you can explain what you wrote before the deadline i will take you off my black board, till then you can count on my vote. Here are your last two posts:

in 193 you write:
____________________________________________________
Captain Blicero has a gun, correct? I think we all assumed this [I did], so let me just be absolutely sure of it before we condemn him...

And I do think we should give him some time to make a defense. I think he would have responded if he had seen the thread. There is no rush, we can wait a day or so before hanging somebody. . .
____________________________________________________

you are very calm, time is running out and to you is of no importance. Call me crazy but this worries me. Lets say you were luck that CB was a one time killer as we now know. Read on:

in 209 you say:
____________________________________________________
Anyways, I have found information that incriminates someone very gravely of being mafia scum. I won't say anything yet -- I believe tonight's events in addition to what I'll say in the morning will make everything very clear.

In addition to all our other problems, we still the question of the psychopath. I am drawing a blank on this one. . . anyone with ideas?
____________________________________________________
this was posted on 10-04. today in the country that i am in is the 8-th. this would make you last post 4 days old. Now you just mentions that what you will tell us in the morning is going to clear things up. If you mean the morning after the night has come and gone and then morning came in the game, that is of no use . so, you worry me lots, since 4 mornings have past and not a word from you.
UNVOTE CAPTAIN BLICERO
VOTE WONKO THE SANE
FOS: Joe Satri & Ornamental Cabbage
FYI Beoneknight i am not a vigilante. But if you care to find out who i am look at my earlier posts, if you didnt find out from this

[ fixed bold tags ]

CIAO: Keep the rubber side down. A.K.A. Speeddevil. Be a safe driver!

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/8/02 9:01:05 am
jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 52
(10/8/02 10:55:27 am)
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Wonko, hinting at such things is dangerous. You should reveal what you know so that if you die, we don't lose your information. Or are you trying to draw doctor protection so that your kill will work tonight? I think you should reveal what you know. In order to provide a little pressure, I will also vote: Wonko.

-JEEP

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 40
(10/9/02 4:44:52 am)
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Needforspeed, Jeep, stop asking people who may have important information to reveal it. Disclosing such information will get them killed sooner or later. I am sure they have a strategy on when to disclose such things. Also, Needforspeed, when Wonko mentioned "the morning", he was refering to the next day in the game. And I don't see what is so puzzling about Wonko's post 193.

beoneknight
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 26
(10/9/02 5:12:57 am)
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I dont want a no lynch day.... anyone have any ideas/wants to add his/her vote to somebody??? i know that no lynch is better than lynching a townsperson, but at this point a no lynch just sux. The deadline is like 3 hrs away...

Needforspeed001 
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 21
(10/9/02 5:52:49 am)
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----------------------------------------------------------
Needforspeed, Jeep, stop asking people who may have important information to reveal it. Disclosing such information will get them killed sooner or later. I am sure they have a strategy on when to disclose such things. Also, Needforspeed, when Wonko mentioned "the morning", he was refering to the next day in the game. And I don't see what is so puzzling about Wonko's post 193.
-------------------------------------------------------
The answer to your "puzzle" DIPLOMAT A , there is none. If Wonko was to know something,he should say it, otherwise that person should know better, and keept it for him/herself untill the right time comes. that is what i am saying. "It is of no use to anyone to say thay hey have important information but tey cant tell you." Again call me crazy if you will but that is the case in this game. On the other hand if you read what i wrote in my response the message i believe its 193 that you didnt understand, you will see what i ment, i wrote my comment underneath it. No hard feelings .

Edited by: Needforspeed001  at: 10/9/02 5:58:05 am
jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 53
(10/9/02 8:13:36 am)
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Needforspeed, thank you for explaining my point so well. Wonko, reveal your information or keep it to yourself. Hinting is not useful.

-JEEP

joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 57
(10/9/02 10:43:29 am)
80.24.10.3
| Del
Re: 236
I subscribe to that.
So what if wonko does not have a weapon???
I think the mafia will kill him if he knows 1st hand information on one of them.

So... considering the deadline is close.. i'm gonna add a little more pressure..
unvote OC
vote Wonko
(also, with this, wonko and i have the same number of votes..)

Now, beoneknight, diplomat a, and captain blicero, why do still keep your vote on me?

Diplomat A, your vote was just some sort of.. 'go with the flow'..
Captain Blicero.. yours was.. 'i'm gonna vote anybody to distract the attention from me'

beoneknight, u wanted a role claim..
i'm just a townie that wants get rid of the scums..
that's it.. plain and simple..


:.:.: [delirious] :.:.: the power always comes from above :.:.:

axetil
unregistered user
(10/9/02 10:33:15 pm)
128.248.172.242
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237
No explanation, just an accusation...

Vote: Beoneknight

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/10/02 12:38:28 am)
68.40.40.141
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Wonko isn't Mafia (no gun), and I don't like the idea of putting pressure on him this close to a deadline just so he'll talk; I want him to talk but all it takes is one more vote from the Mafia and he dies. Just my thoughts.

OC

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 41
(10/10/02 2:05:15 am)
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Joesatri, my vote wasn't just "go with the flow". I went back reviewed your messages. Then I voted for you because I didn't agree with what you said. Your reasoning was kind of bad. I don't think OC is mafia. Anyway, I will Unvote: Joesatri for now.

Also, Jeep and Needforspeed, if you want information from Wonko, why are you voting for him? It doesn't make sense.

Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
Posts: 17
(10/10/02 2:55:31 am)
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unvote: Joesatri... but I still think you're suspicious
vote: axetil... I was going to vote for you for being so quiet, but right now I'm asking you to explain your beoneknight vote.

Needforspeed001 
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 25
(10/10/02 2:58:17 am)
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I forgot. Thank for bgringing it up Diplomat A. U have saved Wonko from my vote :-)
UNVOTE WONKO THE SANE
P.S. thanks for the editing Radwulf :-)

Edited by: Needforspeed001  at: 10/10/02 8:07:08 am
andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 33
(10/10/02 8:15:09 am)
24.69.255.204
| Del
242.Alright...?
How would Wonko be able to kill people without a weapon?Obviously he is not mafia,whatever role he has obviously was not that important to the mafia cause they didn't kill him,I'm guessing they were focusing on the more important players b/c we don't really know if Wonko actually does have accurate info or just an assumption.I realize you're trying to get people of your back right now Joesatri but don't try to confuse anybody.
Axetil I'm pointing straight in your face cause I don't know whether you're just lost or whether you're trying to create suspects or what.You have absolutely no reason to vote Beoneknight and it upsets me, because he's one of the few players I'm quite sure is not mafia and not suspicious in any way,but whatever his role, I don't understand where you come in just voting someone like that after barely saying anything the whole game.See I'mnot one to start voting people if I'm not sure about it,but you're getting me to that point even though I think Joesatri is really suspicious.Explain yourself for oyur sake and for the rest of the town's sake!

Needforspeed001 
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 27
(10/10/02 8:23:01 am)
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i totally agree with Adreeahef, Axetil, so do us a favor and explain please.

CIAO: Keep the rubber side down. A.K.A. Speeddevil. Be a safe driver!

radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 904
(10/10/02 8:46:25 am)
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Vote Count - 6 required for lynching, 4 at deadline
wonko the sane: 2 - jeep, joesatri
joesatri: 1 - beoneknight
captain blicero: 1 - andreeahef
beoneknight: 1 - axetil
axetil: 1 - captain blicero

[ please report any errors ]

The townies can't make up their minds who most deserves to feel the wrath of townie justice, and at sundown return to their homes, as suspicious of each other as always.

Nobody has been lynched! It is now NIGHT, please send choices as soon as possible, no later than 72 hrs from now--choices not sent will be made randomly by moderator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 927
(10/14/02 10:34:44 am)
12.248.23.34
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A quick head count in the town square reveals two of the townies are missing. Needforspeed has spent the night with his fishes. Literally. In the bathtub. Whoever killed him, found it amusing to empty the contents of his aquariums in the bathtub. Before or after he died? Ah, such questions may forever remain unanswered.

Beoneknight's demise was a little less exciting. Except that after shooting him with their own guns, the mafia tried out every single weapon in his gunshop on him. That'll be a closed-casket funeral, that's for sure.


Needforspeed (townie) has been drowned by the psychopath. Beoneknight (gunshop owner) has been shot by the mafia. It is now DAY. 5 votes are needed to lynch, 4 at deadline.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/15/02 5:36:23 am
joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 63
(10/14/02 11:30:13 am)
80.24.10.3
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Re: 246
this is indeed bad..

unvote WONKO

wonko.. no need for the pressure now...
Tell us what u know!

[edited for post #]


:.:.: [delirious] :.:.: the power always comes from above :.:.:

Edited by: joesatri at: 10/14/02 4:25:57 pm
Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
Posts: 18
(10/14/02 12:48:25 pm)
129.94.6.28
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Damn it, psychopath! Go back to killing mafia!

beoneknight was a gun shop owner? Well, Wonko, this is a perfect example of why it's a good idea to share information immediately.

I'd like to hear OC and andrea's results before stating my own suspicions.... any luck last night you two?

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/14/02 6:23:29 pm
jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 54
(10/14/02 8:32:53 pm)
134.134.136.1
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Hold on a sec... didn't we have someone else claim to be the gun shop owner?

vote: ANDREEAHEF it's not extremely likely that we'd have two gunshop owners in such a small town...

-JEEP

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 42
(10/14/02 11:21:13 pm)
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I too doubt there are multiple gun shop owners. Therefore I will vote: Andreeahef.

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/15/02 1:14:09 am)
68.40.40.141
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Well this looks like an easy day. Maybe he's a Mafia-Cop of some sort, or just decided gunsmith was cool role to claim. Whatever, looks bad. Of course, now we get to decide whether he was double-bluffing with Wonko.

I can't find any other explanation than Randomness for me, and as such MY RESULTS DON'T MATTER, but here you go:

Night 1 - 007 - Mafia (now dead innocent)
Night 2 - Neo - innocent (now dead innocent)
Night 3 - Wonko - innocent (alive)
Night 4 - ornamental cabbage (myself, alive, innocent)

Vote: andrea

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/15/02 1:15:35 am)
68.40.40.141
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Sorry to double post, but Wonko, you said you'd reveal incriminating information today, so let's not lynch before Wonko can talk.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/15/02 1:39:53 am
Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 43
(10/15/02 3:16:38 am)
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I also want to point out that the previous night lasted a long time for some reason. It could have been anything, but perhaps someone who's evil is not following the game closely. The two most inactive people here are Axetil and BlueEyes. So I will give a slight FOS to Axetil and BlueEyes.

Needforspeed001 
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 29
(10/15/02 5:00:46 am)
168.26.195.43
| Del
Im a ghost so it dont matter...
i have some unfinnished business as you can read from where my fish is still alive. Unfortunately my soul was trapped in the fish due to some unfinnished business. Till the pcychopath is not killed my furios soul shall be remaining around:evil . Please find the ruthless killer and bring that animal to justice so that i can finally go to rest:ingeras .
As for my killer , you should be ashamed you damn idiot, wasting your oppurtunity on me. Obsiously you are an idiot cause you killed me, so you are a bad idiot. Your talent was ment to kill the mafia and not one of us. IDIOT :cenzurat
As for you the living ones please find the animal quickly so i can rest assured in peace, till next time we all meet.

Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
Posts: 19
(10/15/02 5:32:56 am)
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Don't lynch andrea before she can speak.... I've been reading through the thread, and I think she's probably legit.

andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 37
(10/15/02 8:25:48 am)
24.69.255.204
| Del
255.Mornin'!
Well, it's interesting to wake up to have all of the town trying to vote you off, probably mafia too, b/c they suppose they've got a valid reason to when in fact they know there are multiple existent explanations that they choose to ignore and not reveal to the rest of the town.Anyways, we'll pretend that it was a mere misunderstanding for now.
First of all, Beoneknight was the gun shop owner, we knew about eachother since the beginning of the game and we discussed our investigative decisions together. I was forced to come out with my role, found suspicious by someone at the beginning...I am the gun shop owners assistant.He chose to stay under, so that in case one of us dies, the other can still live and gather info., plus he knew he was going to die and made the last decision about who to investigate this last night and he chose joesatri who DOES NOT have a weapon.

andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 38
(10/15/02 8:30:21 am)
24.69.255.204
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256.....
Second, I think I should clarify again our results:
007, no weapon
Wonko, no weapon
Captain Blicero, WEAPON
joesatri, no weapon
So, I will be taking over Beoneknight's duties as the gun shop owner, like it or not, believe it or not.

andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 39
(10/15/02 8:51:37 am)
24.69.255.204
| Del
257.Here comes THIRDLY with a vengeance...
...of curiosity and suspicion as to what exactly is going on here, so spill.
Here's what's left of the list I guess:
Is this BLUEEYES person playing?Cause I don't think I have noticed anything yet...
So captain blicero has a weapon, after finding that out he claimed a cop role,whatever, for now.
OC also claimed a cop role, possibly random.
joesatri doesn't have a weapon and neither does Wonko.
Now I need to know about the rest of you!:admones
Axetil,what are you doing?I've tried to ignore your monstruous band-waggoning this game thus far ( and JEEP along your side) but that vote yesterday for beoneknight got me really suspicious and I said that too saying that you have no reason to assume him that much in order to vote for him out of the blue, notice I was protecting him fiercely actually saying that I know he's innocent, only to have you jump on me this morning again with the same impetuosity.
JEEP, you're just as bad as AXETIL, have you guys claimed roles yet?Cause I might have missed it, but you don't seem to have any shame or fear about just jumping on innocent people you know are innocent and it makes me wonder.I'd really like it if you guys would come out and explain yourselves.
Dimplomat, I don't know about your role etiher, and I think you all explain your roles asap so we can clean this mess up once and for all.This wagon has rolled far enough, if nobody steps up and declares anything, I for one am going to start applying heavy presuure to save this town, hopefully the other townies left will agree in the interest of cleaning up.
I'm waiting...:nervos :pistoale

jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 55
(10/15/02 9:41:15 am)
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You are going to have to explain to me what you are referring to...

I voted for Neo, who turned out to be innocent, but I still don't think it was a mistake, given the information we had at the time.

I followed YOUR lead and voted CB in order to get him to claim a role. (You have repeatedly said that CB claimed a cop role, but that is not true. He claimed vigilante, which IS NOT a cop.)

I voted for Wonko for playing poorly. Hinting at some great revelation is not smart play. He could have easily been killed last night.

How do you figure that I EVER jumped on someone I know is innocent? I never have. Did Beoneknight ever indicate that you and he were associated? It just seems extremely "convenient" that you two were a group. Are there more in your group? If so, it might be worthwhile for them to come forward and clear you.

I'll think on this over night, but I'm still not buying it.

Wonko, you hinted and survived, lucky you, now reveal this incriminating evidence.

-JEEP

joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 64
(10/15/02 10:46:19 am)
80.24.10.3
| Del
Re: 259
Ok...

jeep, DiplomatA and OC...
WASSUP with you ppl??

What in the world could make you vote andreeahef?
she claims a role in #148
Quote:

..I work in a gun shop...and I get to know who has weapons or not..



She clearly says she WORKS in a gun shop.
we know for a fact that beoneknight was the gun shop owner, and andreeahef's investigation have turned out to be true.
She claimed that CB has a weapon, and that made him come up and claim a vigilante role! I think that's a pretty good proof he's sayin' the truth.
Also, she said 007 did NOT have a weapon, and indeed, he didn't.
I think it's perfectly normal for the onwer of the gun shop to have somebody to work for him.

So.. FOS jeep , DiplomatA and OC !!!!!

jeep.. she did NOT claim a gunshop owner, even after she made that clear, you post again, but you keep your vote on her.

DiplomatA - u go with the flow again.. just like the last day.. when beoneknight voted me.. you quickly voted for me too..
Same thing happens now with jeep voting for andreeahef, and you voting quickly for her too...
I don't think you read the thread a lot... you just go with what accusation *looks* more convincing.

OC - What's with your vote???
You tell us what your results are, and then, out of the blue, you vote andreeahef...

Here are the living:

ANDREEAHEF - gunshop owner ( now that beoneknight is dead, she is the owner..)
AXETIL - mafia ?
BLUEEYES - mafia ?
CAPTAIN BLICERO - vigilante ?
DIPLOMAT - mafia?
JEEP - mafia ?
JOESATRI - townie
ORNAMENTAL CABBAGE - cop
WONKO THE SANE - townie?

Captain Blicero Confirmed to have a weapon, claims vigilante role.
Wonko and I - confirmed to NOT have a weapon.

We have 7 dead, and only one of them is Mafia.
That means.. .. 16 ppl.. 4 mafia scums? what do you guys say?
in the list above, suspicious are Axetil, Blueeyes, DiplomatA and jeep.
So.. probably one of them is not Mafia.. (starman + 3 of the 4 above ).
Also, we have the psycopath. He could very well be the one remaining.

I say we go with BlueEyes first, he/she was really NOT an active player.. and that goes well with a mafia profile.

so vote BlueEyes



:.:.: [delirious] :.:.: the power always comes from above :.:.:

jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 56
(10/15/02 11:20:50 am)
208.151.245.167
| Del
260
Quote:
jeep.. she did NOT claim a gunshop owner, even after she made that clear, you post again, but you keep your vote on her.


No Aandreehef did not make it clear that the ORIGINAL claim was not of gunshop owner. I looked back and notice that you are correct. (Aandreehef should have pointed that out.)

unvote: Aandreahef, FOS: Aandreahef.

I agree, we should put some pressure on Blueeyes to participate. vote: Blueeyes

Also, having a mason group that can investigate is very powerful, I think that could explain why there is a random cop...

-JEEP

andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 40
(10/15/02 7:03:25 pm)
24.69.255.204
| Del
261.MAn...
It's hard by the last few days to remember what anybody said, so I'll just excuse that JEEP, that whole last bit, but you still haven't claimed a role!!!Do it fast!All you did was switch over to BLUEEYES cause both me and joesatri turned our attention on him...not good!
I assumed CB had a "cop" role, buit I had forgotten he claimed vigilante, whatever, the point is he does have a weapon ok?
unvote:captain blicero for now, cause we have more important prime suspects: I'm showing you the fist of suspicion JEEP clearly for all you've done, BLUEEYES cause I don't remember reading anyhting this person had to say, Diplomat A for the bandwagonning and Axetil strongly too b/c your votes are completely illogical after normaly not saying much, and reasons for it quite scarce, explain yourselves ladies!!!:b :caramizi

andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 41
(10/15/02 7:31:43 pm)
24.69.255.204
| Del
262.MOre info
..for those who still might not have seen it clearly yet:
#213. Diplomat votes joesatri after Beoneknight does it, and by opposing joesatri's accusation of OC being mafia, concludes that OC is NOT mafia;something we do not know for sure.
#231. JEEP votes for Wonko cause that's where attention had shifted meanwhile, why?Just cause...or whatever reason of reading up or something irrelevant.
I found somehting from BLUEEYES the innactive:
#215. FOS joesatri based on other people's arguments, no explanation....
#222. CB votes joesatri,why?b/c everyone else did..again no relevant logic or reason.
#239. & #240. both CB & Diplomat A retract votes off joesatri, why? probably cause he doesn't have a weapon, let's give them that much, but you guys need to get your act together, all of you weird voters out there. You can't just keep voting people off b/c of what others say and only remove your votes cause I say they're innocent.We DO NOT have enough days left that I can investigate enough people so that you all can know who to or not to vote.We have to use our knowledge here and make sure we know what has been said, ok?So, BLUEEYES,JEEP,AXETIL and DIPLOMAT A, we're all waiting onthe edege of our seats with popcorn and toffee,spill!!!:sniper

jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 57
(10/15/02 9:12:55 pm)
134.134.136.2
| Del
263
OK, let's look at my voting history:

2. Captain Blicero- 1st vote, random
26. Wonko- 2nd vote, claimed to use crap logic (Neo was first vote and voted randomly)
43. Unvote - going on vacation and wouldn't be able to respond to new info.
128. 007 - 1st vote, cop investigation (Andreeahef hadn't revealed why he thought 007 was innocent.)
171. Neo - 5th vote, following cop AND I had stated that I planned to vote Neo earlier that day... he was warned
186. Captain Blicero - 2nd vote, following an investigator with information, putting pressure on a person likely to be mafia
210. Unvote
231. Wonko - 2nd vote, Wonko's poor play could have lost valuable information for the town... (Information he STILL hasn't revealed to the town)
248. Andreeahef - 1st vote, claimed a role that a dead person had, or so I thought.
260. Blueeyes - 2nd vote, pressure to participate, is he mafia and not sending in night choices? could explain the seemingly random choices that have been made last couple nights.

None of that is bandwagoning.

It would be bad for the town for me to reveal my role at this time.

Andreeahef, I don't know what you think I've done... I think we're in a similar situation as Wonko and I were in in Mafia 6...

-JEEP

Wonko the Sane
unregistered user
(10/15/02 10:01:45 pm)
165.230.122.131
| Del
264
Hey everyone, sorry for not posting earlier but I've been hellishly busy.

Well, my plan didn't exactly pan out as I'd hoped. I was bluffing when I claimed I had information, hoping that my bluff would cause some mistakes. What I was hoping for didn't happen, although my bluff did bring about some interesting, perhaps suspicious, reactions. I know that my play was a highly unconventional one, but I decided that we were running out of good guys quick and that we needed some information. Perhaps in the future, hindsight will show us all that my play was not entirely misbegotten. But, like I said, it did not yield as much as I'd hoped it would.

So what did it yield? Well, NeedforSpeed and jeep voted for me for being cryptic. I believe those are rational reactions to what I said -- the only issue to consider is that Needforspeed voted first. Jeep may have been being rational or may have been bandwagoning a rational vote. But I am still willing to believe that both acted rationally -- they did not want me to die with my information.

Diplomat A took my side. In a somewhat suspicious manner. He said
Quote:
Needforspeed, Jeep, stop asking people who may have important information to reveal it. Disclosing such information will get them killed sooner or later.
That's a curious thing to say -- it would seem to me that disclosing information is more harmless than withholding it, because once information is made public it can't be erased simply by killing the one who publicized it.

Whereas if a person with information can be made to keep it secret for a while and eliminated before publishing it, the information is never made public. So maybe Diplomat A was trying to silence me until the night, so that he (and his co-scum) could have silenced me permanently.

However, no attempt on my life was made last night. Which was curious in its own regard. Maybe the mafia concluded correctly that I merely bluffed. If they had known about my bluff during the day yesterday, they would have wanted me to disclose my "information" and to make me look suspicious for not doing so.....this would put suspicion, if any, on jeep.

For now I FOS Diplomat A. In the alternative, I am keeping a watchful eye on jeep.

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/16/02 1:21:35 am)
68.40.40.141
| Del
265
Hmmp. Unvote: andrea

Thinking...

andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 42
(10/16/02 4:16:20 am)
24.69.255.204
| Del
266.WEll WELL Well
Glad you're thinking OC...hahaha
Jeep, you're still a suspect no matter how you try to make everything look logical, like Wonko said, you can easily bandwaggon a post, rather an argument that seems logical, and as long as you don't disclose your role you're still on the suspects list, sorry to say that,but it's quite late in the game and I for one don't want to let another day go by wioth a nolynch,I wanna clean up this town, and clean it well.
Diplomat A, you're becoming a suspect in other people's eyes to now, not just my own, say something for the love of the town and BLUEEYES too, especially Axetil who's nr. one on my FOS list and who doesn't seem to care either.:albpengr

Captain Blicero
centura alba (1)
Posts: 20
(10/16/02 6:14:55 am)
129.94.6.28
| Del
267
Possible Mafias:
axetil
Blueeyes
jeep
Diplomat

Possible SKs:
all of the above
Wonko
Joe Satri

Most likely innocent:
andrea
OC
myself (see post 222)

I'm going to vote: Diplomat for now, on the basis of gut feeling.

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 44
(10/16/02 9:25:02 am)
12.251.237.8
| Del
268
Sorry for the delay. This is the first chance I had to reply after my previous post. First of all, unvote: Andreeahef. I voted for her because I remembered that she was referred to as the gun shop owner at one time. Here are some replies:

Joesatri wrote:
Quote:

DiplomatA - u go with the flow again.. just like the last day.. when beoneknight voted me.. you quickly voted for me too..
Same thing happens now with jeep voting for andreeahef, and you voting quickly for her too...
I don't think you read the thread a lot... you just go with what accusation *looks* more convincing.


I wasn't going with the flow, as I said before. There wasn't much flow to go with in the beginning. Voting for andrea came to my mind before I even saw Jeep's post. I didn't have much time then to look back and check her exact role claim.

Wonko, I though I was kind of doing you a favor. I assumed you had some kind of a grand plan with that information of yours. The reason I thought it was dangerous to come out with it was because the mafia may not have noticed when you mentioned you had information. I didn't notice until someone pointed it out. But they would have definitely noticed if you actually said something incriminating. Well, it doesn't matter now. It's all in the open.

I'm not going to reveal my role at this time. But I'm hoping my messages show the fact that I'm not evil. I want to hear what Axetil and BlueEyes have to say first.

joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 66
(10/16/02 10:20:08 am)
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Re: 269
*************************
Unnofficial Vote Count
BlueEyes: 2 - joesatri, jeep
DiplomatA: 1 - Captain Blicero
NON-voters:
ANDREEAHEF, AXETIL, BLUEEYES,
CAPTAIN BLICERO, OC, WONKO
*************************


:.:.: [delirious] :.:.: the power always comes from above :.:.:

BlueEyes
unregistered user
(10/17/02 12:28:15 am)
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The inactive has awakened.
Just so you all know this is the first time I have ever played this game. I am still learning how to play and getting to know the roles, and aparently that makes me suspicious. From reading the thread, I came to the conclusion that Jeep is the most likely suspect for mafia. He is one of the first to make accusations just to take the limelight off of him. The rest of you might want to listen to what i have to say since i am new at this game and by reading the thread my gut feeling is that Jeep is mafia.
Vote: Jeep

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/17/02 1:07:32 am
Wonko the Sane
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I just looked over some post history, and have found the following to be interesting.

joesatri broke down the survivors into two groups: possible mafia and probable innocents. He based this mainly on established role claims and gun ownership. He then said that of the 4 possible mafias, 3 are likely scum and that the SK is very well the "one remaining." However, in his calculation, he neglected to consider that the SK does not kill with a gun. Had he considered that, it would become apparent that both myself and he are also possible SKs, in addition to the 4. An honest mistake? Or an attempt to throw suspicion off himself?

CB's lists are a good summary of who's who in the game -- assuming all role claims were true. I assume the game only had 3 mafia (3 maf + 1 SK = 1/4 of the population), but 4 is a remote possibility. So out of the 4 possible mafs, 2 (or 3) are mafia. And of the 4 plus 2 (me and joesatri), 1 is SK. So of those 6 people, 3 are bad guys....maybe 4.

Now, I believe there is another cop in the game. I think the mafia also believes this. Why? Otherwise they would have killed the only person known to them to be associated with the gun shop -- andrea. They haven't killed her because they have been, and are, hoping that she will point to the cop at some stage. (beoneknight's role is irrelevant because they did not know of it...they only knew of andrea's role)

Because all the above is based on some assumptions, let's evaluate those assumptions:
1)Capt. Blicero is vigilante. Verified when possible "real" vigilante would not claim role when CB asked him to.
2)Andrea is a gun shop person. Verified by finding CB in possession of a gun [and in my own mind, by finding me without a gun].
3)OC is a random cop. Unverified. The only thing speaking for the veracity of his claim is that it would be a ballsy maneouver to claim cop so early as a mafia -- it did run the risk of us lynching him. But then, it was easy to claim randomness.

One more thing: it is late in the game. If there is a cop and if the cop has confirmed a scum, I think he should step forward and declare it. He would most likely be killed by mafia the following night, but we would have lynched a mafia and would still have andrea to investigate someone on our short suspects list to give us some information for the following day.

I will hold my vote pending Blue Eyes' and Axetil's posts. If they don't post, I just might vote them on account of being peed off at them.

[edited post no.]

Edited by: Wonko the Sane at: 10/17/02 12:34:25 am
Wonko the Sane
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Wow, that was long. Just thinking aloud. I just noticed something new: both jeep and Diplomat A hint that they have roles, and that it would not be healthy to reveal those roles yet.

Just how many roles do we have? Of the six people w/out roles and guns: 2 must be mafia, one must be SK, and two claim other roles. I am roleless, so that would add up, but I just don't buy it.

But if both jeep and Diplomat A are telling the truth (that each has a non-SK and non-Mafia role), then Axetil and Blueyes are both mafia, and either joesatri or myself are SK [and I know I'm not, but I can't convince you of that]. So if both are telling the truth, then the game is solved. [well, to be determined is which of joe and I is the SK.] [the above is not true if OC lied].

In this light, I think both jeep and Diplomat should reveal their roles. I don't care if they think it's too early. If they're telling the truth, the game will be solved. If one or both are lying, well it will be up to us to determine that and take appropriate action. The heat is on, boys. Reveal your roles!

FOS jeep and Diplomat A until their roles are revealed.

Wonko the Sane
centura galbena (2)
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(10/17/02 12:57:06 am)
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"OC lied" refers to lying about his role.

jeep
centura verde (3)
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(10/17/02 2:43:31 am)
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unvote: Blueeyes (Uh, your new to the game so we should trust your "gut feeling"? Hmm... terrible logic, and the only reason I'm unvoting you is because I think we have this game virtually solved...)

We may have enough information to assure a victory. Here is my proposal.

Andreeahef, OC, and Captain Blicero (our probable innocent players) should decide who Aandreahef should investigate tonight, either axetil or Blueeyes. If he finds a gun, then we lynch that person tomorrow. If not, then we'll lynch the other... Even with someone lying, I think at least one of them must be mafia.

Today, I think we should try to get the SK so there is only one kill tonight. It would really suck for us to lose two of our probable innocents. I am strongly suspicious that joesatri is the SK. I felt this before, but after Wonko's post, I'm 80+% sure. So today I think we should vote: joesatri but if our probable innocents decide we should lynch Wonko, then I will follow with reservations (it was Wonko's logic that pointed out that he and joesatri are the most likely SKs... pretty ballsy if he's the SK)

If we get the SK today, then I feel confident that we will win this game.

Tomorrow:
[list]
[*]axetil, Blueeyes, Diplomat, and I will reveal our roles tomorrow, in the order specified by the probable innocents.
[*]Then andreeahef will announce results of night investigation.
[*]We lynch axetil or Blueeyes as appropriate (assuming nothing else new comes out)
[/list]

I think after roles are claimed tomorrow, the game will be 100% solved.

Probable Mafia:
axetil
Blueeyes

Possible mafia:
Diplomat
jeep

Possible SKs:
[all of the above]
JoeSatri - probable
Wonko - claims townie

Most likely innocent:
Andreeahef- gunshop WORKER
Captain Blicero- Vigilante
OC- Cop

-JEEP

Captain Blicero
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 21
(10/17/02 3:00:00 am)
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Oh yeah, you guys might want to know something else. When I revealed my role, I said that I had a ONE TIME night kill as the vigilante. I was kind of bending the truth. In reality, my role has TWO one-time night kills. Obviously, I kept this concealed to protect myself.

So, present a different plan:
1)Today, we lynch Diplomat, who I think is most suspicious
2) tonight I load up the AK and kill axetil
3) andrea investigates jeep
4) OC investigates blueyes

OC, i think it's most likely that you're not random, but that you just have a small chance of getting the wrong result. So far you've only been wrong once (assuming Wonko's innocent).

And FOS: joesatri as well.

Diplomat A
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(10/17/02 3:56:27 am)
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This is turning into an exciting game.
Wonko wrote:
Quote:

But if both jeep and Diplomat A are telling the truth (that each has a non-SK and non-Mafia role), then Axetil and Blueyes are both mafia, and either joesatri or myself are SK [and I know I'm not, but I can't convince you of that]. So if both are telling the truth, then the game is solved. [well, to be determined is which of joe and I is the SK.] [the above is not true if OC lied].


You're on the right track, Wonko. Axetil and BlueEyes are exactly who I'm thinking are mafia. However, I strongly believe that joesatri is not evil. So that leaves you as the SK. That does work out.

As jeep stated, it's better to lynch the SK today than one of the mafia. Then there would only be one kill tonight. I'm about to vote for Wonko unless he or someone can show that he's innocent.

Anyway, I don't have much time right now. I will post a little later.

radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 945
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Vote Count 5 to lynch, 4 at deadline
blueeyes 1 - joesatri
diplomat 1 - captain blicero
jeep 1 - blueeyes
joesatri 1 - jeep

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Diplomat A
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(10/17/02 6:05:26 am)
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Captain Blicero, you're not making any sense. Why do you think I'm the most suspicious? What I gather from the town is that even though I look suspicious, I'm not the most suspicious. That plan of yours is just ridiculous. Further, how could OC not be random? What does it mean he has a "small chance of getting the wrong result"? If he gets random results, it doesn't mean they're always wrong. They're random.

On the other hand, I do like Jeep's plan. I'll be happy to reveal my role if everyone else does. We can possibly win this tomorrow.

Wonko the Sane
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(10/17/02 6:46:14 am)
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First, as to CB's two kills: I suspected you had more than one kill. Reason for that is radwulf gave me only one kill when he made me army veteran, so I suspected that something would be different about a true vigilante role -- maybe only odd or even day kills, maybe a set amount, etc. This is why, if you look back to my post #205 it is full of references to "one kill" -- I had wanted to warn you, without tipping off the others, to keep your multikill ability (if any) to yourself at the time. I had also wanted to put mafia at ease about your "harmless" role (harmless after using up your "one" kill). I bring this up only because I'm curious if you picked up on my hints. After the game ends, I'll have to ask the scums if they used my post to assume you only get one kill as well.

As to defending Diplomat A's suspicion, I really have no way of proving that I am not the SK. He says he "strongly believes" in joesatri's innocence. Combined with his hinting at a role, this leads me to believe that perhaps he is a Psychiatrist or something of that sort -- he investigated/tried to "heal" joesatri and found he is innocent. So using my own logic, if my assumptions were correct and if neither jeep nor Diplomat were evil, that would leave me. Because I know of my innocence, that cannot be -- thus: if Diplomat A is innocent and has uncontrovertible proof of joesatri's innocence, then either a)jeep lied about his innocence OR b)OC lied about his role claim. In that case, at least 3 of the following would be evil (SK or maf): Axetil, Blueeyes, Jeep, OC.

Of course I cannot convince anyone but myself of this. However, I recommend Diplomat A and Jeep disclose their roles today, not tomorrow. Even if they are both innocent and very useful, there will be too many targets for the bad guys to take out all our useful people: andrea, both of them, and CB. And the possible information to be gleaned from their claims is very important.

Like I said: if they both speak truth, the game is solved. So if they both speak truth, they should not be afraid of claiming roles, because the town will have won. The only question to be settled (if they're telling the truth, and if OC is a cop) will be whether I or Joesatri are the SK, and to determine that you will be able to lynch one and vigilante-kill the other in case you were wrong the first time.

I abstain from voting for now. I need more information. I will highly consider the recommendations and opinions of our confirmed innocents (CB and andrea) [OC is a probable, but not confirmed], but I will not bind my vote to theirs because ultimately I trust my own judgment over that of anyone else.

[post number edit again. what's new]

Edited by: Wonko the Sane at: 10/17/02 6:47:01 am
Captain Blicero
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I now highly suspect Diplomat and Jeep of being the two remaining mafia.

It is not in the town's best interest to vote for either Wonko or joesatri. Trying to lynch people we KNOW are not mafia is not a good idea.

Look at simple numerical probabilities. Assuming there are two mafia left, each of the four "possible mafias" I listed above has a 67% chance of being a killer (2/4 chance of being mafia + 1/6 chance of being SK). Joe and Wonko have only a 17% chance of being killers (1/6 SK). How is it our best option to vote for them?

Don't say "eliminate the extra night kill" because we can do that anyway if we lynch one scum today and I kill one tonight. If we follow my plan, the chances for that happening are around 44% -- not too good, but a lot better than 17%.

Jeep: I agree that joesatri is suspicious, but at this point, the mafia are more of a concern than the SK.

Diplomat: Yes, you actually are the most suspicious player right now. In post 50 you talk about a serial killer, even though the SK hadn't killed anyone at that point. Also, Starman's early vote/unvote of you looks like a mafia ploy. And now you're trying to lynch a player that has been found both gunless AND innocent.

My vote stays on Diplomat, and I suggest you people follow it. Jeep, reveal your role, or you're going to have a run-in with my AK-47 tonight when Diplomat turns up guilty.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/17/02 8:51:54 am
andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 43
(10/17/02 8:52:46 am)
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281.SETTLE DOWN PEOPLE!!!
I don't wanna come in and point out who's doing what wrong and who's not and whatever else, but a lot of you are making sense in some points while totally screwing up factors in others.
I DO NOT think we should be looking for SK's right now b/c it's risky business and we do not have enough info on any suspects being this right now, but otherwise, good reasons to be suspicious of other's who are disclosing their roles right now!!!I don't agree woth waiting till tomorrow at all Jeep,or whoever said that, why not reveal them now so we can decide more easily to vote for right now.I really didin't care which out of Diplomat A, Jeep, or Axetil to vote for cause they seem equally suspicious to me right now, especially cause they don't wanna talk.Unfortunately for you Jeep, I don't like the way you're acting and this paln of action you have that easily gives you a free kill tonight as mafia and an easy win tomorrow so vote:Jeep so you can see I'm not kidding when I say I want you guys' roles right now and I expect you to cooperate since you don't have any alibi yet. Diplomat A, this goes for you too as well as for Axetil and BLUEEYES who I'm strongly FOSing. After you guys come out it will be easy for us to figure out who to lynch and whom I will investigate as well as any other possible cops whether they be random or not. You were the most agressive Jeep and you keep veering away from telling us your role as well as Diplomat A. I mean not only have you guys been suspicious through out the entire game, but now you come in telling us to vote for possible SK's when you don't even wanna tell us where you stand, I'm sorry but it doesn't work that way, say your role already and leave the deciding tothe townies.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/17/02 8:55:10 am
Captain Blicero
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 23
(10/17/02 9:09:23 am)
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Sorry, stupid math mistake.

Axetil, Jeep, Diplomat, and Blueeyes all have a 58% chance of being killers, not a 67% chance. Let's definitely lynch one of them.

joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 67
(10/17/02 11:30:07 am)
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Re: 283
[off topic]
WoW!
13 posts in 9 hours..
That's pretty good ppl :)
[/off topic]

First of all, wonko, i know of my innocence, and i was somewhat convinced of yours.
That was MY list of suspects, and it remained intact.

Ok..
This is the Vote Count:
blueeyes 1 - joesatri
diplomat 1 - captain blicero
jeep 2 - blueeyes, andreeahef
joesatri 1 - jeep

blueeyes, diplomat and i have 1 vote, and jeep has 2.
This is not too good...
I say we vote for one of the common suspects on our lists.
Who do we lynch today???

Blueeyes's intervention.. did not really help him/her.
Axetil - still unwilling to post..
DiplomaA and jeep - did not claim votes...

this is my list of possible lynching for today.
my vote is on blueeyes.
I'm willing to change it to one of the others on the list, depending on the circumstances.


:.:.: [delirious] :.:.: the power always comes from above :.:.:

jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 59
(10/17/02 9:32:04 pm)
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I recognize the signs, Andreehefwill not get off my case unless I reveal, however, if I reveal, then I die tonight (unless we lynch the SK...)

I am an FBI Agent. It's my job to track down the SK. Here are my investigations, all reveal that they are not the SK:
1) OC
2) Andreehef
3) 007
4) Wonko (hence my thought that he is not the SK :) )

-JEEP

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/18/02 2:45:50 am
axetil
unregistered user
(10/17/02 10:26:44 pm)
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dear townies and mafia,

I appologize to everyone for not keeping up with the postings. I may as well reveal my role, since it hasn't really seemed to come in handy... I'm a PI which means that I can camp out in someone's yard to see if they have any VISITORS (I wouldn't see if they left), so this roll seems to be good only for verifying what other people say... My ideas behind my last posting...

I didn't notice that people were convinced of beoneknight's innocence, and it surprised me that he seemed to go unquestioned - I chalked this up to him acting innocent. (As I skimmed a few hundred of the past thousand words since the start of this day, I noticed people mentioning that he was shown to be the gunshop owner) I decided to vote for beoneknight near the end of the day mainly to attract attention to myself, without giving people enough time to discuss it with each other. I thought that in this way, everyone with an investigative roll would stop by my place that night (and so I camped out in my own yard) and safeguard myself from mafia for another day. I was also interested to see how the town would accuse me (who, based on what, how soon, etc), and not only that, I wasn't completely convinced of beoneknight's innocence (sorry for skimming) and was interested to see how he would react. So my decison to vote who, when, and how I did seemed to be logical to me, I was looking forward to a bunch of new information.

Although I realize that giving away my roll wasn't the best way to avoid the mafia's sting this coming night, it seemed worthwhile to help the town avoid lynching an innocent during the day.

As I mentioned above, I haven't really read the postings of this (game) day, so I won't contribute any opinions/insights on who is most likely to be mafia. Again:)

Sincerely,

axetil

PS Since after reading my posting (I'm assuming that no one else skimms like I do) nobody should falsely claim to have visited me last night, I'll admit that nobody at all stopped by.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/18/02 2:45:14 am
Wonko the Sane
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(10/17/02 11:21:33 pm)
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Well, axetil, I really meant to stop by for a drink or two but I had to stay late at work. Sorry buddy. But while we're on the subject, you said that your role hasn't been useful. Does that mean you haven't got anyone visiting anyone else yet? Why don't you list whom you investigated each night so we can cross-reference that list with the known events in the town, OK?

Jeep surprised me with his role, only because Diplomat seemed to be hinting at a similar one. This is not to say, however, that I do not believe him solely because of that. Let us hear Diplomat's role and then begin our logical hunt!

[edit post number, but this time its not really my fault...it's messed up above]

Edited by: Wonko the Sane at: 10/17/02 11:22:47 pm
andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 45
(10/18/02 3:01:57 am)
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287.Waiting
Still to see what is said before making a final decision, I would prefer to hear everyone first so I don't have to go into this blindly, and don't worry about having a so called "useless" role b/c either wayu it's late in the game, it doesn't matter who dies as long as the townies win the game.Please don't be selfish and just tell us so we can kill the mafia and finish with this already.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/18/02 3:03:25 am
Diplomat A
unregistered user
(10/18/02 4:41:15 am)
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Okay, people, I hope this will clear everything up. I have investigated Jeep, Captain Blicero, and Joesatri. And I have found that they're all innocent. I also tried to investigate Starman the same night he died, but didn't get a result. Now, combined with the existing role claims this is what we have:
Andreeahef - gun shop associate
Axetil - PI
BlueEyes - unknown
Captain Blicero - innocent/vigilante
Diplomat - cop
Jeep - innocent/FBI agent
Joesatri - innocent
OC - random cop
Wonko - unknown

I do notice there are some contradictions here, which makes me think I always get innocent results. The only people that haven't claimed roles before today and who I haven't investigated were Axetil, BlueEyes, and Wonko, which made me think Ax and BE are mafia and Wonko the serial killer. But now that Jeep has shed some light on Wonko, I'm starting to doubt he's the killer. So either jeep or I, or both of us, get wrong results.

Diplomat A
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Actually, I should rewrite the list without unverified roles.

Andreeahef - gun shop associate
Axetil - unknown
BlueEyes - unknown
Captain Blicero - innocent/vigilante
Diplomat - cop
Jeep - innocent/FBI Agent
Joesatri - innocent
OC - unknown
Wonko - unknown

If I do get correct results, I think the game is practically solved.

jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 60
(10/18/02 5:52:33 am)
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Diplomat A, did I miss something? What is your role? Would you be able to find the SK?

-JEEP

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/18/02 5:57:36 am
Wonko the Sane
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Ok, this is where we are as I see it:

1)Assumption: I think it is highly unlikely that in a town with only 2 bona fide Cops, both are faulty.

2)Assumption: If a town has only one Cop, I think it highly unlikely for that Cop to be Random. So if one Cop, the Cop is normal.

3)From my point of view, we cannot have both a normal cop (Diplomat) and a random cop (OC): if Diplomat is normal, then only unknowns are Axetil, Blueeyes, OC, and myself. Since I know my innocence, that leaves Axetil, Blueyes, and OC to share 3 evil roles: 2 maf, one SK. Which would mean OC cannot be a random cop because he is evil.

4)And if Diplomat is lying, that means our town has a random cop but no bona fide normal cop. I said in #2 above that this would be highly unlikely. Alternately (if both Dip and OC are lying) our town has no bona fide cop. This is unlikely (but possible, because we do have other investigative roles).

Thus, I am willing to assume Diplomat is telling the truth and that he is normal. This implies 4 unknowns: Axetil, Blueeyes, OC, and myself. At least 3 of these are bad guys.

Of these, I cannot be mafia and OC cannot be SK (I am assuming jeep's FBI info on OC because Diplomat confirmed jeep's innocence). So, Wonko can be SK, OC can be Mafia, Axetil and Blueeyes can be either. One of the above may be innocent, but doesn't have to be (remember, we may have 3 mafia and one SK left). Although I know my innocence, I cannot readily convince anyone of it.

Now, what to do about it? Well, if my assumptions are correct, then by my own logic, to you, I am one of the suspects. So my recommendation probably means little. But here it is anyway:

If Diplomat speaks truth, then Axetil and Blueeyes and OC are bad guys (in this part I am assuming my innocence).

If he is lying, and is himself mafia (but jeep is still telling truth), then 2 out of OC, Axetil, and BlueEyes are still the bad guys. And if jeep is lying as well, then 1 person out of joesatri, Axetil, BlueEyes, and OC is a bad guy. [the last paragraph assumed my innocence as well].

As you see, Axetil and BlueEyes are the common denominators in all these scenarios. If one of them is innocent, we know Diplomat either lied or is a faulty cop, and that jeep likely lied as well. If one of them is guilty, then either Diplomat told the truth and is normal (implying jeep's innocence) or he lied but Jeep told the truth [but most likely that Diplomat told the truth].

Thus, lynching Axetil or BlueEyes will give us the greatest probability of nailing a bad guy -- and failing that, either's innocence will cast a shadow of suspicion upon Diplomat [of either being evil or a faulty cop -- but as i said above the latter is highly unlikely].

After all this analysis I must reiterate one caveat -- in the last paragraphs I have assumed my innocence.

So I vote BlueEyes.

Keeping Axetil alive tonight may be a good idea if there is even the remotest chance he is what he claims to be -- a PI. He should investigate andrea's house tonight, because andrea is bound to do some crucial investigating herself tonight, and I'm sure mafias and/or SK are just licking their fingers at the thought of killing her. This could buy her safety and/or ensure us information on the morrow.

Diplomat A
centura galbena (2)
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(10/18/02 9:08:21 am)
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Wonko, your logic here is impressive. :) A small remark though: where you said the common denominator is Axetil and BlueEyes, it should also include OC. He's among all of your scenario-suspect lists as well.

One reason I may be getting wrong results is that there are also two investigators who together can find both mafia and SK. Andrea can find the mafia but not the SK, and Jeep can find the SK but not the mafia. If we have in addition to that a normal cop, it would seem too easy. And I know Radwulf like to use a lot of faulty cops.

So, anyway, after jeep's disclosure, BlueEyes is probably the best choice here. So Vote: BlueEyes.

andreeahef
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 47
(10/18/02 9:27:47 am)
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293.OK
I also see Blueeyes as the one to vote right now as he is the common denominator in all of this, and Wonko was not only reffering to his own lists when he made the commnet about BLUEEYES and AXETIL being common denominators, he was also reffering to mine and yours Diplomat A, just thought I'd clear that up. We'll be able to figure a lot out by lynching BLUEEYES as to who's telling the truth and who's not, so let's just pray this will work to our advantage. unvote:JEEP vote:BLUEEYES

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/18/02 10:44:18 am
Captain Blicero
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Very well... I don't believe Diplomat's role claim at all (or axetil's for that matter), but Wonko's logic is good. Just so you investigators don't waste choices, here are my targets for vigilante justice:
1) if blueeyes is guilty, I will kill axetil
2) if blueeyes is innocent, I will kill Diplomat.
Don't waste your investigations on a corpse.

unvote: Diplomat
vote: Blueeyes

radwulf
Admin
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Final Vote Count 5 to lynch, 4 at deadline
blueeyes 5 - joesatri, wonko the sane, diplomat a, andreeahef, captain blicero
jeep 1 - blueeyes
joesatri 1 - jeep

Perhaps trying to make up for yesterday's indecisivness, the townies grab Blueeyes before she has a chance to defend herself, take her to the town's bridge, and tie her legs to a boulder.
- Here scum, this is what you get for drowning harmless citizens.
- I never drowned anyone, the psychopath did! are her last words, but the townies are too busy pushing the boulder over the edge to pay attention. So, another townie gets to sleep with the fishes.

Then they decide to pay her a visit (perhaps something they should have done before executing her, but it's funny how nobody ever thinks of that). At her house they find all the missing guns from Beoneknight's shop (but alas, no ammo), Mayor Ahri's old list of "most likely innocent" and Dorlun's collection of smoking pipes. They've killed a mafioso, after all.


Blueeyes (mafia) has been lynched! It is now NIGHT, choices are due in 72 hrs from this post.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/18/02 10:50:16 am
radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

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- It seems I've been looking for trouble in all the wrong places! exclaims Axetil when, returning home after another fruitless night, he discovers a masked, armed, and most likely dangerous man comfortably installed in his living room.
- Well, it finally caught up with you, scum! declares the trigger-happy gunman, then proceeds to fill up with lead the self-declared, self-made private detective.

Happy to have finished a very clean job, the mafioso examines the victim's desk--the last place where he would expect to find a certain letter...
- Damn it, I shot my instigator!
But that is not all. He finds an unfinished poem titled "the revenge of the fish" and a small note which states "the fish always go in AFTER".
- Damn, I mean damn, I shot the psychopath!
Understandably, the mafioso has very mixed feelings about this latest murder.

In the morning, the townies find Joesatri slumped over his desk, with a single bullet wound in his forehead. The town's most uncompromisingly evil inhabitant is dead. Joesatri wasn't happy enough with his full-time job as a mafia instigator; he took to randomly killing townies and mafia alike at night to satisfy his vicious appetite for murder.


Axetil (private investigator) has been shot dead by a vigilante! Joesatri (mafia instigator and psychopath) has suffered a similar fate at the hands of mafia!

It is now DAY! 4 votes are needed to lynch, 3 at deadline.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/20/02 1:20:07 am
ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/19/02 11:18:07 pm)
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Alive (6)

Role claims:

andrea - claims to work in Gun Shop
CAPTAIN BLICERO - claims Vigilante
DIPLOMAT - claims Cop
JEEP - claims FBI Agent. innocent by Diplomat.
ORNAMENTAL CABBAGE - claims Cop
WONKO THE SANE - innocent by andrea.

Gee, this doesn't look very good for me, does it? All I can say is that it would have been an extremely risky move to try something like I did, and jeep for one can say it's out of character. I'd like to hear the investigations of Diplomat and andrea, and I don't think we can ignore the possibility of a Godfather out there. I may reread the thread and try to figure something out; however, here's who I trust:

myself.
The good Captain Blicero (if he were not vigilante, the real one has had plenty of time to expose him.)

IF andrea is lying and tried another extremely risky move...well, it seems unlikely. What if Wonko were a Cop or the vigilante and had a gun? andrea would have been exposed, plus beoneknight could have exposed her. All reason says andrea is relling the truth (unless andrea is both mafia and gunshop worker.)

I also don't think there are two mafia left. Seems that would be too unfair with a Random Cop. If Diplomat is really a Cop and andrea is really a gunshop worker then either
a) Diplomat is na´ve.
b) there's a Godfather.
c) Diplomat is sane, and there's a Godfather or mafia (Wonko) who doesn't carry a gun.

You know, with all this analysis I just want to vote jeep. But I'm holding off until we hear results.

Not that mine matters, but jeep appears guilty. Just to let you know I'm not getting careless.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/20/02 12:39:52 am
andreeahef
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298.Yeah
I hear what you're saying buddy, unfortunately, I investigated Axetil last night, but he's dead now...sooo...only radwulf could have made such a situation possible, is all I can really say woth 100% assurance.I don't know what to think anymore, I'm wating for Jeep and Diplomat A to come out and give some relevant info, and I'll base my decison from there.Rest assure, somebody's getting lynched today, that's for sure!!!

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/20/02 12:39:34 am
Diplomat A
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Good morning, everyone. First of all, I'm not happy at all the way Captain Blicero has played this. He has killed two townies already, and two useful ones at that. CB, stop being so stubborn and listen to the facts. It would have been more useful for the investigators to check out Axetil instead of you killing him. I would vote for you even if you are confirmed innocent.

Now, as for me, I'm definitely a naive cop. I found that Joesatri is innocent. Last night, I investigated OC, if that matters. Now I'm kind of less sure of who is mafia. We don't have confirmation that Jeep is innocent, but his role sounds plausible because it complements Andrea's role. OC also sounds innocent because it would have been risky to come out as cop, and I think two insane cops are plausible. That leaves Wonko as the least confirmed. He may be a godfather, that's why he wasn't detected by Andrea.

StarmanDeluxe
unregistered user
(10/20/02 1:12:05 am)
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*haunt haunt*

Blargh. The mafia instigator killed me. Blargh blargh.

*haunts Joesatri*

[ *calls ghostbusters on starmandeluxeeb for haunting the post count* -- radwulf ]

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/20/02 1:15:00 am
jeep
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Well, I found the psychopath, but I guess we don't end up lynching him.

JEEP - claims FBI Agent. innocent by Diplomat.
ANDREEAHEF - claims to work in Gun Shop, likely
CAPTAIN BLICERO - claims Vigilante, likely

WONKO THE SANE - (role?) innocent by andrea.
DIPLOMAT - claims Cop (naive?)
ORNAMENTAL CABBAGE - claims Cop (random?)


So Wonko is the only one who hasn't claimed a role. I think it's time we know your role. Would a godfather have bought his gun from the store? I think a gf would still have a gun.

TWO useless cops seems outrageous. I could have bought one useless cop because of the mason group gunshop owners. It would be out of character for OC to have tried that move, but it makes the most sense that he's mafia. IMO, there really is no place for a random cop in mafia...

vote: Ornamental Cabbage

-JEEP

Wonko the Sane
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Diplomat, you are being slightly inconsistent. You praised my logic and followed my vote for BlueEyes -- who has been the only mafia so far that we have lynched. And now you say I'm mafia? Suspicious.

As far as a godfather role is concerned, I had similar concerns that a gunshop owner would not be able to see him way back in post #153. Jeep later clarified in #158 that in most games, gunshop personell are able to see godfathers' guns. Now granted, this doesn't mean that it is so in this game, but I for one am willing to believe it.

In my mind only three suspects remain: jeep, diplomat a, and oc. I am willing to believe jeep, because he shared my suspicions of joesatri as SK (I only put those aside when I went on a limb and believed Diplomat's investigation results) -- this does not prove his innocence in any way, but he took the suspicion off of me for being SK. At the time I think the mafia would have rather encouraged the town to lynch me because I was talking a lot and making many accusations [at least one of which was true]. But I have made the mistake before of assuming a man was innocent only because he declined to kill an innocent me when he could have. He turned out to be mafia. So Jeep is still on the suspect list.

On the other hand, Diplomat A did the opposite -- he briefly tried to bring suspicion upon me for being SK, based on his investigation result of joesatri being innocent. But this was really pretty insignificant. However, today, he jumped on OC's suggestion that I may be godfather and therefore invisible to andrea. OC was trying to make sense of the situation with his statement -- what Diplomat A did seemed like bandwagoning the idea to me. But most incriminating, to me, is the inconsistent attitude towards me (first paragraph of this post). Diplomat A tops my list of suspects.

I think OC's statement of me being a godfather whose gun possession cannot be seen was just one of the possibilities he listed when he attempted to list ALL possible combinations of what's going on right now. When I've gone through my logic in my posts I've also said things that, while unlikely, were possible. So I don't think his statement was suspicious.

I thus vote Diplomat A and FOS jeep. But I am still keeping an eye on our third unconfirmed, OC.

[edit post number....something's wrong with the "add reply" button...i see jeep had the same problem]

Edited by: Wonko the Sane at: 10/20/02 2:49:51 am
Wonko the Sane
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In response to jeep's post, I thought I already claimed my rolelessness. If I haven't, then I am doing so now. Just a plain old townie.

As to whether the game would have a naive cop or a random cop -- it seems to me that putting in only a naive cop would be almost impossible for the town to detect for a long time. Whereas the randomness of a cop is more easily ascertained (for us it did not take long at all). But I guess radwulf likes to make things difficult. Still, I keep my vote for the time being.

Captain Blicero
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(10/20/02 3:32:50 am)
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Yeah, one doctor and one private investigator.... I really suck at being a vigilante. Sorry about that.

Anyway, I thought Diplomat was most suspicious yesterday, and I still think he is. If he really is a cop, I can't believe that he didn't investigate either 007 or OC after their huge fight Day One and Day Two. I'm going to hold off voting for a while, though.

Also, what is a "mafia instigator"? I've never seen that role before.

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/20/02 3:45:27 am)
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I'd like to reiterate that jeep is highest on my list of subjects. Call it instinct, call it disbelief that there's an FBI Agent, call it the fact that he's admitted a Random Cop gambit would be completely out of character for me and still votes for me...

but still. Let me go over this one more time.

We have two dead Mafia and a Mafia Instigator/Psycho. It really seems unbalanced for there to be any more than one Mafia left, otherwise the Mafia would have a really big advantage. So I'm going to assume one Mafioso.

If so, then only one person is lying. So what are the odds and ramifications of anyone lying?

A. I'm lying, and I'm Mafia. Obviously (obviously to me) this is untrue but I have to include it. No ramifications, Diplomat is Na´ve or I'm the Godfather. I'm assuming I'm innocent.

B. Captain Blicero is lying. This can't be true, since no one else has admitted to being the vigilante and the vigilante could have killed him. Also, it seems too unfair that someone would be both vigilante and Mafia, and have the Mod announce it, etc. So I'll assume CB is innocent.

C. andrea is lying. But beoneknight had plenty of time to denounce andrea, and didn't, plus it would have been quite a risk from andrea's standpoint to say Wonko didn't have a gun so early. This doesn't discount the really small chance that andrea is both Mafia and gunshop assistant, since the owner would be the one sending choices, but IMO this game is too small for any type of Godfather Mason. So I want to say andrea is innocent.

D. Diplomat is lying. Okay, this is the interesting one. Diplomat said yesterday he tried to investigate Starman the night he died but *didn't get a result,* meaning he couldn't tell if he was Na´ve or anything yet...now he claims he must be. This is, I admit, suspicious, and it's easy for the Mafia to call people innocent. But Diplomat's role claim did somewhat lead to BlueEyes's lynch, mainly because of Wonko's logic. And I don't like the idea of having a Na´ve Cop in a game with only the gunshop masons for investigators. I'd much rather believe Diplomat is a Sane Cop who hasn't found anyone yet (and couldn't find the Mafia Instigator.)

But if it's not any of the above, it's either...

E. Wonko is lying. Unlikely, but possible; he could be a Godfather-figure without a gun, but he led an impressive lynch against BlueEyes.

F. jeep is lying. Personally, this is what screams to my instinct. jeep is not being as careful as he usually is, especially with voting me; he is the player still alive I'd *least* expect that reaction from, given that he knows my playing style and some of my tells. If I weren't scared of the idea, I'd say he were playing like one of two Mafia left alive, but as I've said I don't think there are that many. Even if there are though, they're probably jeep and Diplomat. And I'm still trying to decide if the game has room for an FBI Agent. I don't know whether or not instinct is clouding my judgment, but jeep is highest on my list, followed by Diplomat.

To be brutally honest, I'm okay with lynching either one today; I really don't think Wonko is a Godfather (although this can always change) and thus, if there's one or two Mafia left we can safely eliminate them from among Diplomat and jeep. I'd even be okay with a nolynch today to bring it down to 5 and gather more information during the Night (the Mafia would have to decide whether or not to go for an almost-confirmed innocent (Captain Blicero) or a possible investigator, and the Town would get the benefits of one more Night of investigations and possible slipups tomorrow.)

What does everyone else think? And andrea, did you post your result from last Night, if you have I've missed it.

OC

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/20/02 7:17:23 am
Diplomat A
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I just want to emphasize that the reason I know that I am naive is that I investigated Joesatri a few nights ago, and got him as innocent. Now we know he was the psychopath. So my results don't matter at all. Now jeep is using my original claim to say that he's innocent. My results are useless.

Wonko, I didn't say you were mafia. I didn't even FOS you. I just implied that you were the least confirmed as innocent. Even if you are mafia, it doesn't mean your logic can't be good. Prior to today, I had assumed I was sane, so I was pretty sure Axetil and BlueEyes were mafia, and either you or OC was the psychopath.

Anyway, I have to look back in the post history for more facts. But notice that yesterday, BlueEyes did vote for Jeep.

In response to Captain Blicero's inquiry about me not investigating 007 or OC, I wanted to investigate someone who was totally unknown yet. I knew we would have learned the truth about 007 and OC soon enough. It was true, wasn't it? My original strategy was to find all of the bad guys, and then come out with it all at once.

andreeahef
centura verde (3)
Posts: 54
(10/20/02 9:15:21 am)
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OC I had investigated Axetil who was innocent, but he died, so it doesn't help us.I am going back to not only my previous thoughts on Jeep, but also to the bad feeling I had about him all along, I certainly hope I am not making a mistake here but vote:JEEP so speak up my friend or you go down.
I have another point to make to the two "cops" left and that is that didn't you guys say, one of oyu if not both of you that you were going to investigate yourselves last night to make sure of your roles??????I was really counting on the results here.I am afraid I might be really angry if you didn't or if I have to go back and see who it was and what was said. So I am waiting.




[post nr. - skitty]

Edited by: sKittLes at: 10/20/02 9:35:07 am
jeep
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(10/20/02 9:21:31 am)
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OC, I vote for you because I don't believe that a random cop should be used in Mafia. I believe that they take out the skill involved. Now, would Radwulf be willing to use one? Maybe. But I cannot imagine that there would be TWO useless cops. One, I could understand given how many other investigators we have.

As to me playing less careful than normal... uh, wouldn't I be playing MORE careful if I was mafia? I don't see how I'm less careful. Also, nice little psychological trick in your post:
Quote:

It could be any of these four possiblities,
I lied, CB lied, A lied, Dip lied, BUT IF IT ISN'T one of those four, then it MUST be one of these two...


I know I didn't lie, and by your logic, that makes you the next most likely, person to be lying.

Diplomat, I had cut and pasted that list from a previous post by OC. I just editted it slightly.





[post nr. - skitty]

Edited by: sKittLes at: 10/20/02 9:35:47 am
Diplomat A
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Well, I'm really torn between whom to vote for. I think we all agree that the last mafia is among myself, Jeep, OC, and Wonko. I can see everyone's reasons for being innocent. As for myself, note that both Starman and BlueEyes voted for me on the first day. I'd say it's pretty early in the game for them to dissociate themselves from me, especially when no one else was voting for me.

I was just looking at the old posts, but couldn't find much I can use against either Jeep, OC, or Wonko. I guess I'll just follow whatever bandwagon that forms.

Wonko the Sane
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Posts: 54
(10/21/02 12:49:45 am)
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As I was rereading the posts I came upon something interesting. I need input from more experienced Mafia gamers here: are abnormal Cops so prevalent in this game that every Cop should immediately question his normal-ness when he gets the role? If the answer to that question is 'no' then OC acted suspiciously very early on (post 53) when he claimed his role: he claims that he is cop, but that it is stupid to come out with this info so early because he hasn't verified what kind of cop he is:
Quote:
Naturally, coming out with this information on the first day is a stupid idea, since I could be any sort of Cop, Normal, Insane, Paranoid, etc.
Personally, if I received a Cop role, I would assume my normalness unless and until I was proven abnormal.

To me the above (if unreasonable, thus I pose the question to experienced players) could have been an attempt by OC to introduce the possibility of error in his accusation of 007 while maintaining the integrity of his role claim.

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/21/02 1:49:12 am)
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Hmm. Yeah, I at least always question my sanity. I've been Paranoid twice and Insane once now. On the other hand, there are Cops who apparently don't have to, for whatever reason (see FullComm Mafia Day 1.)

jeep
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Quote:
I'd say it's pretty early in the game for them to dissociate themselves from me, especially when no one else was voting for me.


Actually, that's the perfect time to do so and now you are making sure that you point it out to everyone... hmmm...

And yes, EVERY cop should question their sanity from the start, however, random cops really have no place in mafia.

Andreeahef, you ask me to speak, but you never give me anything to speak about:
Quote:

the bad feeling I had about him all along, I certainly hope I am not making a mistake here but vote:JEEP so speak up my friend or you go down.


What can I say to that? I could go off on an Antrax rampage asking what your bowels think... *shrug* if you lynch me, then the town has a 33% chance of winning if you do not lynch tomorrow. So I'll just tell you all that IF you lynch me, your best option tomorrow is to let the deadline expire.

If you tell me WHY you think I'm mafia, then I can respond to it, just like I have answered OC's accusations. I think I've said this before... I think you are just in the situation that Wonko was in in Mafia 6... you have no reason to vote me, yet you want to vote for me. Try to figure out WHY you want to vote for me? You and OC and Blueeyes all had this "feeling" that I am guilty... well, maybe you have this feeling because OC and blueeyes planted them? Heck, looking back need for speed got this "bad feeling" when I had simply posted a random vote in the FIRST POST of the game!

You can vote for me based on a "gut feeling" if you want, but I strongly suggest that for future games, you use logic and reasoning instead of 'gut feelings.' With two votes, the mafia could easily tip me over the edge... so tomorrow, I suggest you give up your chance to lynch and have the better odds of winning the following day. (BTW, "gut feeling" is more acceptable EARLY in the game than it is at the end... but logic is always better.)

-JEEP

Captain Blicero
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(10/21/02 7:49:02 am)
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well, I will make my suspicions offical and vote: Diplomat

jeep, I think it's not a good idea to vote for OC because you personally don't think random cops should be used in games. Whether or not you like to use them is irrelevant: other people have stated that radwulf does like to use them, so it is possible that OC is telling the truth.

btw - OC, if you really are mafia, you are one ballsy player.

andreeahef
centura verde (3)
Posts: 55
(10/21/02 9:31:54 am)
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314.FINE!
I am willing to do this for now unvote:JEEP vote:D iplomat A.
I have a question for CB, you already used up your kills right?You're just a townie right now, pretty much???Why did you kill so early in the game?



[post number - skitty]

Edited by: sKittLes at: 10/22/02 7:32:05 am
Diplomat A
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Posts: 52
(10/21/02 9:57:42 am)
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Whoa, whoa, hold on, people. You're just about to vote off a naive cop. Captain Blicero, you were wrong about two of your suspicions before. What makes you think your suspicion is correct right now?

You haven't really said why I'm mafia. You're only saying that on the basis of your "gut feeling". Well, I'd like to hear a clearer explanation.

Why would I claim that I'm a cop after there were like 4 investigative roles revealed? I am cop, that's the truth. And I do think that Starman and BlueEyes voting for me at the beginning means something. Of course it doesn't prove that I'm not mafia, but I doubt Starman and BlueEyes are the types of players that would have come up with this conspiracy.

jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 64
(10/21/02 10:21:47 pm)
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316 or something close
OK, the two people I trust most are voting for one of the two people I suspect.

unvote: OC; vote: Diplomat A

-JEEP

Diplomat A
centura verde (3)
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(10/21/02 11:35:41 pm)
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Bah, I thought this was going to end today. But unfortunately, you guys blindly followed the bandwagon and lynched an innocent. Well, no surprise there. I wouldn't be lying now since it doesn't matter. But I do think Wonko is mostly likely the remaining mafia. He played this game pretty well, I must say.

I will Vote: Captain Blicero just for the heck of it because he's so sure of himself, yet so wrong.

Good luck, town.

radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 976
(10/22/02 2:30:35 am)
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FINAL VOTE COUNT! (4 to lynch)
diplomat a 4 - (wonko the sane, captain blicero, andreeahef, jeep)
captain blicero 1 - (diplomat a)

The angry crowd surrounds Diplomat A, demanding retribution.
- Would a cop badge make you guys change your mind?
- Of course not! replies the crowd as one.
Diplomat A throws some object in Captain Blicero's direction, and attempts to spit in his face before the clubs and pitchforks of townie justice start landing on him. Moments later, someone picks up the mentioned object; sure enough, it is a policeman's badge, it has Diplomat A's name on it, and it is as genuine as they come.


Diplomat A (cop) has been lynched by townies! It is now NIGHT, choices are due in 72 hrs from now.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/22/02 2:34:16 am
radwulf
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 984
(10/22/02 6:33:12 am)
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- Mr Blicero, you and your assault rifle have disturbed our sleep one time too many!
- You don't sleep at night anyway, scum!
- Knowing there's a loose cannon out there, who could blame me?
- Hey, I was of some use to you, weren't I?
- Yes, so far.


Captain Blicero (vigilante, army deserter) has been shot dead by the mafia! It is now DAY, 3 votes are required to lynch, 2 at deadline.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 65
(10/22/02 9:27:04 am)
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Hmm... well, now I'm convinced that it's Wonko. I was hoping that he would kill OC and make it look like an incriminate kill, instead he leaves the two who are most suspicious of me alive. I think I had a better chance of convincing CB of my innocence. Well, Andreeahef, you are the only one I'm convinced is good, who do you choose?

-JEEP

Captain Blicero
centura galbena (2)
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(10/22/02 4:58:29 pm)
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yeah, I really sucked it up this game.... sorry town.

DAMN YOU MAFIA!! DAMN YOU TO HELL!!!

Wonko the Sane
centura verde (3)
Posts: 55
(10/22/02 6:40:43 pm)
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Well, no matter who you are it doesn't make you look good to have a confirmed innocent (and a cop at that) pointing his finger at you as they drag him away to the hanging tree. So the situation doesn't look good for me.

Furthermore, I have no way of convincing anyone of my innocence save a declaration of it. I did lead the lynch of Diplomat, but in my defense I must say that we all knew that we may well miss the first time -- and we did. Missing a second time will be fatal, however.

Hopefully andrea investigated jeep last night -- because investigating OC would have been moot as we know he has a gun whether he's a cop or a scum. So if she reveals jeep's innocence, I am voting for OC. I must say I have suspected him at the start -- but was later swayed by his own, and others', statements.

I think it boils down to this: jeep and OC and myself are suspicious. While we do have positive info which points to my innocence, we have no such info about either of them: Diplomat was likely naive (in regards to finding jeep innocent), and we have only OC's role claim to go on. Personally, I would rather believe we had 1 useless cop (naive), 1 FBI to balance the SK, a PI [who is not a very powerful investigative role], and a gunshop owner with a replacement [not a very informational role, bcs cops turn out positive]. The second option is 2 useless cops, a PI [limited power], and a gunshop owner [limited information]. The latter would have given us no way to get the SK, because we had no normal cops. Therefore I believe OC has testes the size of an elephant's, and that he is mafia.

I hold my vote pending andrea's post regarding her investigations. But I do FOS OC.

Let's not make an error here.

Wonko the Sane
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Don't you just love a quick mind? I sort of forgot that FBI agents are probably armed too. So andrea's investigation is probably useless. But let's hear it anyway.

andreeahef
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324. WHY, WHY WOULD THEY BE?!?!??!?!?!??!
HUH?!?!?TELL US YOUR INVESTIGATIONS JEEP,REALLY QUICK!

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/22/02 10:50:49 pm
Wonko the Sane
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Relax. What I meant is that in my first post I implied that perhaps you had investigated jeep last night, which would have been useful. Then I used my brain, and realized that the result would have been useless because an FBI would probably show up as having a gun -- so would a mafia. So for both OC and Jeep, they probably have guns whether they're what they claim or whether they are mafia. Which makes a false cop claim the best claim for a mafioso in our game, since it will justify owning a gun. Only OC didn't know of your investigative ability when he made his claim, but jeep did.

I also have a question. When a normal, real Cop investigates another cop, does he just get an 'innocent' response, or is he told he investigated a cop? Because if he gets an innocent response, then OC's gambit wasn't as ballsy as I first thought -- being a godfather, a Cop would see him as innocent.

[post number edit]

Edited by: Wonko the Sane at: 10/22/02 10:03:45 pm
jeep
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Uh, Andreahef, I've told you all of my investigations. Last night I didn't send in a choice because the psychopath is dead.

Wonko, cops usually get only "innocent" or "guilty," so investigating a cop would give "innocent."

In the past, a gunsmith has been able to see that a maifa had a gun... that's the bit that eats at me... I'm almost swayed by Wonko's arguments, but the fact that I had just come to the conclusion that you were most likely mafia makes me hesitate. I'm thinking "Are you just playing up my stated suspicion of OC?"

Andreehef, what are your thoughts on this? You are the only one I completely trust to be innocent at this point. (It will be very funny to read this when you turn out to be mafia, just playing the three of us off each other! :) )

-JEEP

P.S. just to be 100% clear, since I know English is not necessarily the native language of our players: I do not think that Andreehef is mafia. I was just saying that IF he is, then my statement of complete trust will be funny to read.

andreeahef
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327.BAD ANSWER JEEP!
vote:JEEP
I don't know if any of you bothered reading the investigative list yet,but I suggest you take a mighty colse look at it cause it looks like JEEP is one big fat liar so far and I don't like this much.
First of all, I AM A GIRL!!>:
Second of all, JEEP you have a weapon!
Third of all, I don't see why you would, you're an investigative role, simply, it doesn't say anything about killing anyone or taking the law into your own hands and having the option of killing or anything like that.
Fourthly, even if I was wrong about an FBI agent not having a weapon, the role also states that once the psychopath has been killed the agent becomes a super cop who can find out any role, including the big bad godfather's, and what do you respond with?That you can't investigate anyone anymore,HAH, it sounds like a bunch of BULL,pardon the language.
Fifthly, I'm a loser cause I didn't keep my vote and attention focused on you and now I'm super angry.:exasp

Edited by: andreeahef at: 10/22/02 10:56:36 pm
andreeahef
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328.OC!!!!
Say something already, you're becoming too darn suspicious to me right now too!!!!!:exasp

jeep
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*sigh* Sorry for using "he."

Of course I have a weapon, I'm an FBI agent. By your logic, then a cop shouldn't have a weapon either.

As for becoming supercop, THAT would be unbalancing in this game, but more importantly, it's not true. After the psycopath is killed, I didn't get that supercop ability. Mafiascum.net says that he becomes a regular cop.

Heck, if I was mafia, I would have said I got supercop ability and told everyone I found the last mafia. Then I would have won, right? But since I'm not mafia, I only told you the truth.

Be very careful with votes today, remember we lynch correctly or lose.

-JEEP

Wonko the Sane
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330
Jeep, you say that mafiascum.net states that an FBI agent who has found the SK becomes a regular cop. Then you say you haven't become a supercop. You don't actually say you've not become a cop. You don't even say "well, looks like radwulf is doing his own thing here, because I've certainly not become a regular cop." But I guess you implied you did not get the cop role after all. Anyway, it's not important.

This situation sort of stinks. We have all the information we can possibly have. It's not enough to be 100% certain of anyone's guilt. But I feel we can be pretty close. Follow with me. To me there are only two possible suspects, OC and jeep.

If it's OC: in the light of a cop only getting innocent/guilty, his gambit, albeit ingenious, was not as ballsy as might appear. He creates the possibility of being random/insane from the first mention of his role -- and picks a random innocent right away as mafia, obviously wanting to establish the random cop role. The only danger was in the beginning -- that we wouldn't buy it. Being godfather, he has no chance of being detected by a Cop. When the gunshop role is revealed, he's not worried because as a Cop he has a gun anyways. He is 100% safe from being detected by an investigative role. My only problem with this scenario: risky for a godfather to claim cop, point finger at innocent, and risk getting lynched when the town sees the innocence and doesn't buy the random claim. But then every gambit is risky.

If it's jeep: he had no choice but to claim an investigative role, because he had to defend against andrea's finding a gun on him. My problems with this scenario:

1) It is strange why he just didn't kill andrea and claim townie role or something. Adding another investigator was far-fetched, which is why I'm willing to believe it's true. Actually I've wondered why andrea has been left alive as long as she has. I think I know: OC had no need to kill andrea because as a cop he was safe from having a gun found on him. Actually, he'd want her alive to get us to lynch possible cops!

2)Another problem: if jeep is scum, that means we had 2 useless cops, a gunshop owner mason lodge [imprecise information, bcs cops are positive], and a PI [limited power, because only camping out at ppl's places]. This would give us no way to ever find the SK using any reasonable means. The only means would be guessing. I refuse to believe a Mafia game would be designed that way -- especially by radwulf, who when he tried to convince me to play the game equated it with chess and told me it was a game based on reason and logic. Random guessing is not reason and it is not logic: with several mafia members, their interaction in the game thread can be used to logically and reasonably "guess" their identities even without Cops. The SK is a lone agent, and without a single investigative role who can detect him, we would be left only with random guessing to find him. Thus I believe Jeep is in fact an FBI agent.

And OC is the godfather. And that is why Andrea is still alive. She was actually useful to him, and once Blueeyes was gone she was not a threat to him in ANY WAY. Useful because her finding guns on people would make us suspicious of them, regardless if they later claimed cop roles.

To summarize, I base my suspicion and vote on two factors: a)andrea's survival and b)the need for an anti-SK character.

Without further ado, I vote OC. I hope I am not wrong on this one, but I just don't see how I could be based on the above.

andreeahef
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331.I'm impressed...
...with your logic yet agian Wonko, you've shown that you are using your noggin',but if OC is the godfather, then why wouldn't he have killed you, presuming he believes you are a townie, and instead killed CB who some of us were suspicious of still. unvote:JEEP

ANywayz, I want to wait and see what OC says before I make my final decision on this one sice it will be my last one anyway.:akm :sniper




the thing messed itself up and I had to fix it,the bold thingie

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/23/02 2:45:07 am
jeep
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Wonko, the only way you are wrong is if you are the mafia gf. You found out early that Andreeahef found you weaponless... but I don't believe it. You have convinced me of my suspicion from yesterday: OC is the remaining mafia.

vote: OC

-JEEP

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/23/02 2:44:48 am
ornamental cabbage
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(10/23/02 2:36:32 am)
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Hmm, I guess I'd better make this count.

Yes, it would have been a ballsy move, even as Godfather. No, it's not something I would try. And yes, I actually believe radwulf would put two useless Cops in a game. I can't offer anything more eloquent than what I've already said. I questioned my sanity, I told the Town they could lynch me as a Lepton if they decided it best.

I want to put forth one more idea. Suppose there is a Mafia of 1 Godfather and 2 Mafiosos. Do you really think the Godfather, the Mafia's most powerful ally, would risk such a ballsy move, however confident s/he would be in his/her skill? When the Town could very well have lynched me? I am telling the truth. I have been telling the truth. You can read my previous posts if you like, I won't restate everything I've said here.

There is one more thing. I don't believe there to be a need for an FBI Agent in this game. There doesn't need to be a counter for everything; some bad guys can be caught with logic. Like the logic I have been using all game, successful or not, and the logic (although faulty) Wonko is using now.

I have already stated my suspicions of jeep, and I will confirm them now. I don't believe jeep, and furthermore, if Wonko happens to be a gunless Godfather, I would rather see him win than jeep, my big suspect, by a simple lynch based on principles he knows do not apply to me and my playing style.

I am a Cop. I have a gun. I am Random, because I cannot be anything else. Wonko doesn't have a gun. andrea is innocent.

Vote: jeep

Wonko, reconsider, and andrea, think carefully. I have said my piece; if anyone has any more questions I will answer them. But I believe jeep is Mafia, and I know my innocence.

(Also, CB believed me and was a pretty much known innocent. This is why he was killed, in my opinion.)

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/23/02 2:44:29 am
radwulf
Admin
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Vote Count! 3 needed to lynch, 2 at deadline
ornamental cabbage 2 - (wonko the sane, jeep)
jeep 1 - (ornamental cabbage)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing.

Wonko the Sane
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OC, your "by the way" concerning CB almost had me really worried. I've been so busy trying to work out role balances and previous behavior, I forgot one obvious issue: if near the end of the game A, an innocent, believes B is innocent and C is guilty, and if C is mafia, C may well kill A because every vote will count. Of course he may also refrain from doing so because it may be too obvious....anyway the point is moot. The issue doesn't apply because CB did not believe you. He was as lost as any of us, and the most he said is that it's possible you're telling the truth (he followed in the next sentence by saying if you're mafia, you're a ballsy one). This is all in post #313, see for yourselves.

At that stage, we all thought it's "possible" OC is telling the truth -- that's why we lynched Diplomat and not OC.

Anyway, I think I'm just trying to rationalize here to make myself more convinced I'm right. And I am pretty sure I am right. But if I'm wrong -- well, suffice it to say that if I'm wrong then I will have singlehandedly lost the entire game for the town (especially when considering my Diplomat error as well).

jeep
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Andreeahef voted for me in post 327.

Anyway, so now we're tied.

OC, what did CB believe? He believed that Wonko was the last mafia. If it's true, Wonko has an easy win by switching his vote to me.

I was just running the numbers and it looks like we should actually pass up our lynch today. But that doesn't account for the fact that the remaining mafia must be either OC or me, because if it's not, then the mafia has a winning opportunity right after OC voted.

Maybe they didn't check the thread, but it is logical that OC and I are the most suspicious. I know I'm innocent, so I know that OC must be the mafia. However, Andreeahef and Wonko cannot just take my word for it... just like they cannot take your word for it (OC). If we consider that then it doesn't matter. Either way there is a 50% chance for the win.

No lynch today would give a very small amount of extra information, but then it's a guessing game of how many levels of reverse psychology you used. Do you kill Wonko so that you have you and Andrea on your side? Do you kill andreeahef to make it look like I was trying to swing things my way? Or do you kill Wonko so...

Honestly, I don't know how many layers you would go, but it would come down to one of the others, same as today, except you'd get to choose the other.

Wonko and Andrea, if you think you can guess the correct number of layers of reverse psychology, then you should either unvote or not change your vote.

Either way, there is a 50% chance of winning, but passing up a lynch today doesn't hurt us. I'm just not convinced that it helps us either.

-JEEP

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/23/02 3:21:11 am
Wonko the Sane
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Andrea unvoted you in 331, jeep. So your premise about my ability to end the game is mistaken. Just thought I'd point that out.

I also think that the chance of uncovering the layers of negative psyche are about 50/50...it's still guesswork to determine how deep it goes. So while there is no disadvantage to waiting one day, there seems to be no advantage either.

[post number edit...i used jeep's erroneous number]

Edited by: Wonko the Sane at: 10/23/02 3:20:57 am
andreeahef
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338.
I don't think you guys see this yet, but it doesn't matter if we wait one more day.If I get killed tonight,which is the more obvious outcome, JEEP,Wonko and OC will be left, what difference does that make?
If anyone else get's killed, the same outcome will be produced, but with a more obvious feel for who it could be, b/c if Wonko were killed and he'd be therefore innocent, I would know it's either OC or JEEP.I am the innocent one for sure here, so obviously I will be the one to go tonight leaving the rest inthe same situation b/c it still isn't clear who did what b/c everyone is suspicious of everyone else seeing how the last mafia could be the godfather, not considering the whole weapons thing.

andreeahef
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(10/23/02 5:22:56 am)
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339.
Honestly now,what more can I say, other than OC seems more believable to me at the moment, b/c JEEP is either playing really poorly or has chosen to either not understand what I'm writing in my posts or is purposely evading the questions and giving vague answers back to just claim some innocence.OC, you haven't given us a whole lot to go on though either, the CB thing was out of context.JEEP I'm just so close to putting my vote back on you, if I weren't suspicious about OC's no talk attitude displayed recently, so I would like it if you both gave out one last statement inluding the answers to my questions.Everything I have to say has been said, I just wanna see what you all have to say beofre my final decision.:x

Wonko the Sane
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To answer your question as to why OC (if he's the mafia) didn't kill me and killed CB instead -- well, actually this could be generalized into: why did the mafia kill CB instead of me last night? I had made a mistake in leading a lynch of Diplomat the day before, so maybe the last remaining scum is hoping that I will make another mistake and lead another lynch against an innocent. Just a guess...

I must say, however, that I don't consider OC's comment about CB "out of context." I think it's very relevant -- OC was trying to use CB's opinion of OC as a factor speaking for OC's innocence. The fact that OC's statement was false is by itself a factor against OC's innocence. That's how I see it.

[edit to take silly crying face posticon out...the posticons stay the same on replies, which if you ask me makes little sense]

Edited by: Wonko the Sane at: 10/23/02 5:56:14 am
andreeahef
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341.OH MAN
Wonko, you just repeated everything I just said.The you not getting killed last night doesn't matter anymore, read rather what I said in my last two posts about me getting killed tonight to getting to a worse situation than today,instead.
As for the rest of the message, it's stuff I said abut OC treying ti use it to claim innocence, that's what I said man, but the fact that it waasn't exatly true was what I was trying to point out.I was thinking out loud the whole time, so everyone would know how critical this whole situation is becoming.I always manage to get myself into these situations with radwulf's games, where I have a 50/50 choice to make, and see whether it was the right choice or not.:(

jeep
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Andrea, I thought I had answered all your questions clearly and openly. I guess I didn't understand the question. Please restate them and I'll answer them as clearly as I can.

-JEEP

andreeahef
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343.
The fact of the matter is Jeep, that your role doesn't add up, and you're being evassive, anyway, I'm still patiently waitin for OC to say something, if he's at all interested in this whole bit.He doesn't seem very worried at all.For the love of the town, SAY SOMETHING MAN!

jeep
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What am I being evasive about? I think you just WANT me to be mafia because you stated earlier that you thought I was. I am not mafia. I believe Wonko. I believe you. That leaves OC as the remaining mafia.

OC is just sitting back letting things stew...

What about my role doesn't add up? I won't claim to know what rad was thinking when he created the game, but I think I have a good enough understanding of the game of Mafia to explain my role and how it fits. My role makes sense in this game. OC's role is the one that doesn't make sense! If I'm the mafia and he's a random cop, then this game is really weighted in favor of the mafia. TWO useless cops? That's a little excessive. The mason group of gunsmiths is good enough that rad might have wanted to throw a little chaos into the mix by putting in a naive cop, but there's no way he'd put in both a naive cop and a random one.

If you want me to respond, give me something to respond to! I don't see where I was vague before, but right now YOU are the one being vague.

-JEEP

andreeahef
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345.WHoaaaaaaaaaa
Why are you getting so defensive, I'm not about to vote until I hear from OC so just relax ok.It doesn't add up at all and think about the reason for a second here:
How does three accurate investigative roles not strike you as weirder than two BAD COPS?
if it were up to me I'd put two investigative vs. two bad cops if I was trying to be extremely generous and balance the game, but why would I do it.Am I the only one who sees the logic here?COME ON PEOPLE, say something!Is it going to be me and Jeep talking aimlessly for the rest of the day?

Wonko the Sane
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To be perfectly objective, I must point out an inconsistency in one of jeep's posts. He said that CB thought I was mafia. Actually CB never made any such statement. In fact, he believed my assertion that Diplomat is mafia -- beyond that he didn't make any positive statements (as to myself, OC, or jeep). So was this an innocent error by jeep? If jeep were mafia and convinced that CB accused me, I think he would have made an accusation of me for having silenced CB. Which he hasn't done.

I am sticking with OC. I am virtually convinced he's the last mafia. I just make one request -- if I am wrong, and OC the innocent gets lynched today, I ask the remaining mafia [jeep] to put a couple of bullets in me overnight because I really don't deserve to see the sunrise.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/24/02 5:00:01 am
Wonko the Sane
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Andrea, you fail to consider that if jeep is mafia, we would have had investigative roles that would be entirely blind to the SK [no one could detect him]. AND no single role being able to confirm a mafia either [gunsmith would see cops and vigilante as gunwielding too]. The only caveat is the P.I. Still, it would take guesswork to find the SK.

And to answer OC's assertion that the use of logic is viable to catch an SK -- please oh please tell me what kind of logic could possibly be used to find a character that acts more or less randomly and who cannot act "strangely" in the game thread because he has no one in the thread to interact with [unlike mafias who try disassociations and try to protect their 'colleagues' from accusations in the thread]. Because I fail to see it.

ornamental cabbage
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(10/24/02 4:37:58 am)
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348
I'm here, I don't know what else I can say. I could reiterate everything, but how hard is it to hit backpage?

Ah well.

1. If I were Mafia, I would not have made such a move, nor would any player I know. jeep knows this as he has played many games with me, yet ignores it.

2. I don't believe there to be a need for an FBI Agent. jeep is defensive and suspicious.

3. However, it looks like I'm not going to swing Wonko, as he says he is positive I am the last Mafioso. In that case, I suggest you just lynch me already, since I can't get a majority for the real culpit. Then the Town can lose.

That's about all. Do you really think I'm Mafia? I've been nothing but straightforward, told the Town they could lynch me as soon as I realized I was Random, have not hid anything or any reasons. I have not been trying some incredibly risky game. I submit that no one can name a player who would actually try this gambit; I certainly wouldn't. That alone speaks for my innocence.

Confirm vote: jeep. If jeep is Mafia and I get lynched, prepare for a nice big I TOLD YOU SO. If Wonko is Mafia, which I find staggeringly unlikely, then it's not like the Town is doing anything about it.

FIN.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/24/02 4:59:29 am
Wonko the Sane
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Well, like I said the situation stinks.

Factors for OC being mafia: role balancing. andrea being alive while mafia killed almost irrelevant people (ahri, beoneknight...). knowledge that if gambit succeeds the first day, it will carry him very far [as we see, possibly to the end].
Against OC being mafia: risky first day move. but really, was it that risky? telling the town to lynch him bcs he's useless was the right call -- he's still a body on the good side, so why lynch him?

Factors for jeep being mafia: aren't there too many investigative roles? [i don't think so]. Can't think of any more.
Against jeep being mafia: andrea stayed alive until his role claim -- why wouldn't he have killed her? (he was taking a HUGE risk -- if she found a gun and THEN he claimed FBI, we'd be less apt to believe him). role balancing.

I am willing to throw out the role balancing factor for now because it is in contention. The fact that Andrea was kept alive long after Doc died and she claimed a role that was dangerous to mafias remains. If OC was mafia claiming random cop, however, she was not a threat to him. She was arguably still a threat to his cohort (starman was dead when she came out, i think). On the other hand she was useful to possibly point out the remaining cop(s) to him.

All else being equal, and ignoring the role balancing, this is just enough to nudge me to think OC is mafia. Maybe it's because I think that the gambit he allegedly played was truly ingenious. In a way I want him to have played that gambit. Maybe it's clouding my judgment.

It was a great endgame, albeit with its share of errors (by me as well), until now. And now it comes down to a virtual 50/50. Well, shoot me if I'm wrong, but I stick with my vote.

andreeahef
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350.
vote:wonko

Wonko the Sane
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That's great, andrea. What, exactly, does it do?

jeep
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Wonko, this is what I was referring to (post 317):
Quote:
But I do think Wonko is mostly likely the remaining mafia. He played this game pretty well, I must say.


A incorrect investigator is WORSE than having a "just" a townie. A townie is not going to get an innocent lynched.

Anyway, Andreeahef, do you really think that Wonko is mafia? If so, you are going to have to make one heck of a case, because I'm convinced he's innocent. (But I'm sure if I were to switch my vote to him, OC would happily switch his vote immediately.)

-JEEP

ornamental cabbage
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(10/24/02 9:34:39 pm)
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353
Of course you're convinced he's innocent, you know all the innocents.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/24/02 11:04:57 pm
jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 73
(10/24/02 11:52:18 pm)
208.151.245.167
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354
True, logic and reasoning has led me to the conclusion that Wonko, Andrea, and I are innocent and you are the mafia.

Anyway, the real reason for this post is that I will be on a plane for the next 24 hours or so, and will not have internet access until Monday.

-JEEP

andreeahef
centura verde (3)
Posts: 71
(10/25/02 1:05:35 am)
24.69.255.204
| Del
355.OK ok!
I was just testing the waters,let's just get this thing over with and hope that we've rid ourselves of the right person here....unvote:wonko vote:OC
If not, then, nice playing with ya,see you in a blue moon!

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/25/02 2:52:38 am
andreeahef
centura verde (3)
Posts: 72
(10/25/02 1:07:26 am)
24.69.255.204
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356.I BELIEVE THIS IS THE END!
So that's the last of it!Hopefully...

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/25/02 2:52:59 am
andreeahef
centura verde (3)
Posts: 73
(10/25/02 1:08:29 am)
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357.I BELIEVE THIS IS THE END!
So that's the last of it!Hopefully...

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/25/02 2:52:10 am
ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/25/02 1:36:02 am)
68.40.40.141
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358
Yeah, it's the end all right.

Unfortunately, it's the end for the Town.

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/25/02 2:51:39 am
radwulf
Admin
centura neagra (7)

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359
Knowing fully well that no amount of badge-waving could get him off the hook, Ornamental Cabbage resignedly goes to his death. He keeps up his facade to the bitter end, claiming he knows the real culprit, and declaring his heartfelt grief for the loss of his town. So there they are now, they've lynched him! Bells and whistles and the curtain... they've lynched the last scum, right? Wrong! Under close scrutiny, Ornamental Cabagge's badge is found to be just as genuine as Diplomat's, although belonging to a different preccint. Oh well, thus is life! Eyeing one other as suspiciously as only the last three survivors in a mafia infested town can, the remaining trio breaks up for night.

Ornamental Cabbage (cop), has been lynched by the townies! It is now NIGHT, choices are due in 48 hours.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence. (Manly's Maxim)

radwulf
Admin
centura neagra (7)

Posts: 1037
(10/26/02 7:24:08 pm)
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...
- What did you do to her, scum?
- Same thing I'm gonna' do to you... Jeep takes aim at Wonko... Just what I suspected. Bastard! Those were my last bullets.
- I guess we'll call it even then? A draw?
- A draw... until I can find some other way to get rid of you.
- Fine, be that way. But be advised that I shall try the same...


~ the end ~

Andreeahef has been shot by the Mafia! Jeep (godfather) and Wonko the Sane (townie with bullet proof vest) survive, and the game ends with a draw between Mafia and the townies.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence. (Manly's Maxim)

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/26/02 7:24:37 pm
radwulf
Admin
centura neagra (7)

Posts: 1038
(10/26/02 7:41:51 pm)
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moderator's award
To recognize Mafia's performance, which was somewhat superior to the town's(especially towards the end), the BEST PLAYER AWARD goes to JEEP, for the great effort he put into escaping two consecutive lynches at the end and a very successful role claim. pub40.ezboard.com/fromani...D=13.topic
Congratulations! :aplauze


Thanks to the rest of you for playing a fine game, and don't feel too bad if some of you have done a few mistakes... that's what mafia is all about, it's part of what makes it so much fun. :)

I was also thinking of praising some more of you, but I won't because most of the players have had good moments in the game, and I don't want to do injustice by mentioning only some of them.

I will post a detailed list of roles later on.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence. (Manly's Maxim)

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/26/02 7:53:09 pm
andreeahef
centura verde (3)
Posts: 77
(10/26/02 8:40:43 pm)
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GRRRRRRRRR!!!!
I SOOOOOOOOOO TOLD YOU SO!!!!!It's all about instincts I don't know why I let myself influenced!ANyways, good game!:nervos

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/26/02 9:10:13 pm)
68.40.40.141
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Bah.
I don't think I need to say anything here, except that I've seen jeep play in many many games, and I thought it was obvious. But good game, all, and I wish I were Mafia so I could have tried that gambit.

radwulf: I'm just a coin flip Random, right? Was Diplomat really na´ve?

radwulf
Admin
centura neagra (7)

Posts: 1039
(10/26/02 9:22:11 pm)
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Re: GRRRRRRRRR!!!!
oc = beginner cop, fresh off from the academy
his method of investigating: watch someone's house, if they wander around at night, they're probably mafia, if not, they're innocent

btw, i totally agree with jeep, randomness should be avoided in mafia roles

and yeah, towards the end of the game querci (oc) played at the level i expected him too :) although he failed to convict jeep

diplomat = competent cop, but he wouldn't find the sk as guilty (unless the sk had joined the ranks of the mafia)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence. (Manly's Maxim)

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/26/02 9:27:26 pm
Wonko the Sane
centura verde (3)
Posts: 66
(10/27/02 1:28:59 am)
68.44.83.228
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Blahhh
Jeep, did you try to kill me the first night? If you did, then you knew of my vest -- bcs 007 said he protected Neo that first night. Just wonderin'. Even though it was a last-ditch and rather pathetic attempt, I tried to get you to kill me overnight in case you were mafia. Because then Town would have won. Hey, it was worth a shot.

Well, I was wrong again. It was a good game, though. And to my credit I must say that the facts at the end did not allow a definite conclusion either way -- I picked one way, andrea picked the other, I was wrong, she was right. Towards the end I must say that OC almost had me convinced, but I told myself that I shouldn't listen to mere personal persuasion, because had he been mafia he would have said exactly the same things to avoid getting lynched.



ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/27/02 1:30:31 am)
68.40.40.141
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...
Ah, but had I been Mafia I would not have tried the Random Cop gambit :)

007
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 566
(10/27/02 5:23:31 am)
12.249.83.11
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interesting
nice played , jeep!

oc u did good in the end but i was kind of disapointed of u for the beginning of the game...u rushed thigs i think...u sould have waited a little bit more with the acusses towards me...anyways it was a nice game...to bad for me i didn't follow to close till the end

________________________________________________________________________________
<br>I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. /
Douglas Adams
--Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

ornamental cabbage
unregistered user
(10/27/02 5:41:11 am)
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in reply
I had considered the possibility I might be any type of Cop, and I still went with it. You see, I had a secondary goal: get everyone talking and role-claiming, and some logic going. And it worked; witness the last three days of the game; I think Town had an excellent chance. True, it wouldn't have been wise had I only been trying to use my results, but I wanted to spice up the game a bit. It's unfortunate that you were on the receiving end of the spice bat :)

007
Admin
centura rosie (6)

Posts: 584
(10/27/02 6:13:57 am)
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reply
yeah...:)



I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.

Douglas Adams
--Author, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 74
(10/27/02 7:11:41 am)
203.106.247.130
| Del
DRAW?
I tried to kill Neo first night... who was protected by the doc.

So in order for mafia to win, we needed to lynch Wonko?? Hmm...

OC, I was 100% convinced you were our instigator, which is the only reason you lived so long. Day 1, I thought it was NEO, then day 2 I thought it was joesatri or you... then when you published your list, it matched the names we sent to out instigator, I think. And random cop??? I was sure that was part of your hint to me, since I revealed myself to our instigator. I thought, hmm... is it worth our instigator to get two tonwsfolk killed? I didn't think so, and I didn't think you would either. However when you published that list, I KNEW you must be the instigator.

Joesatri, you should have at least voted for our choice the first time each day. Then I would have known it was you, and I would have not tried to get you lynched.

Wonko, the fact that we went to night again made it obvious that either someone had some protection or you had another kill. Your plea is what made me decide against killing you (which I had originally planned on).

I STILL don't know why Andrea thought I was mafia. The only reasons she gave were really 'gut feeling.' OC, I don't think I was playing 'less carefully' in this game, but yeah it was pretty clear that from your perspective, you should have known I was mafia at the end.

If you had figured out your cop type, then I think I would have been toast.

Overall, I think there was too much hinting by the town in this game. Hinting is usually bad because the mafia know so much more than the average townsfolk. I hadn't considered the possibility of a vigilante with a ever-useful bullet proof vest. I think that's a bit powerful.

In deciding my role claim, I knew it had to be something that had a gun, then I could leave Andrea alone. I set up the game (with OC being instigator and joesatri being SK) and decided that a FBI agent would balance things.

I was sad that Andrea's lynch didn't go off as planned. I noticed she said she worked in a gunshop and not that she was a gunsmith. We got lucky next night and got the owner (which I didn't know for sure existed, but the way she worded her claim hinted at it) and I thought for sure that we'd get her lynched.

Well played all.

-JEEP

radwulf
Admin
centura neagra (7)

Posts: 1042
(10/27/02 7:41:57 am)
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list of roles
serial killer
JOESATRI
- was not allowed to kill first night
- was immune from attack first night
- he would have been saved from his first lynching
- instigated for the mafia during the day
- in case of 2 successful instigations, would have infiltrated the mafia (he would have known their names, participate in their night conversations, but he would have kept his own agenda, that is kill all townies and mafia)
- was allowed to choose his method of killing
[ I am of the opinion that having a weak Serial Killer is pointless; if there is an SK, he should be a one-man side, with a decent chance to win the game ]

godfather
JEEP
- immune to cop investigations
- immune to night attacks (including those of the Serial Killer)
- gunshop personnel would have found out he is armed if they targeted him

mafioso 2
STARMANDELUXEEB

mafioso 3
BLUEEYES

competent cop
DIPLOMAT
- if he targeted the Serial Killer, he would have found him innocent (unless the SK had infiltrated the Mafia by then)

beginner cop
ORNAMENTAL CABBAGE
- found targeting roles as Mafia (including gunshop personnel), the rest as innocent

gunshop owner
BEONEKNIGHT
- mason with Andreeahef
- found out if his target owns a firearm or not (could check their records with the shop and law enforcement agencies)
- special case: if he targeted the Serial Killer and the SK had used a gun up to that point, he would have found out he was armed; if the SK had not used a gun to commit a murder up to that point, he would have found out SK as unarmed

gunshop helper
ANDREEAHEF
- mason with Beoneknight
- would have taken his place if he died

private investigator
AXETIL
- surveilled someone's house, and was given a list with the names of all those who had visited (lowest ranking alive mafia player in case of mafia targetting)
- he wouldn't have detected the targeting done by gunshop personnel

vigilante
CAPTAIN BLICERO
- was allowed to kill twice per game at night

doctor
ZEROO7

medical student
NEO
- would have taken the doctor's job if he died

mayor
AHRI
- could pardon from executions, 3 times if I remember correctly

bulletproof vest
WONKO THE SANE
- was immune to night kills done with firearms (mafia, vigilante, and Serial Killer only if Serial Killer had attacked using a gun)
- he would have been killed by the Serial Killer if the SK did not attack with a firearm

townie
DORLUN

townie
NEEDFORSPEED

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence. (Manly's Maxim)

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/27/02 10:14:08 am
Ahri
unregistered user
(10/27/02 9:51:51 am)
172.139.175.19
| Del
just wanted to say...
BLUEEYES i knew it was you, you claimed to step back yet your rushed to take a hand in the game. Since I couldn't get the rest of the town to agree with me I removed my FOS.

Joe, wasn't sure what you were, pretty sure you were the mafia at the beginning, but as the game went on I believed you to be SK.

Jeep, had no idea it was you. Towards the end I was betting it all on Wonko as godfather because I thought the godfather's gun could not be seen and I saw the way you had everyone (OC, Jeep, Andrea) all pittied against one and another.

Wonko, I believed you were innocent all the way till the very end.

NEO, I was going to pardon you from lynching, but I didn't know the deadline and by the time I checked the board you were already dead. Sorry, that was my own fault for not e-mailing often enough.

OC, I believed you were innocent (or REALLY REALLY gutzy, but either way, I trusted you completely. well not your sanity, but I knew you were innocent.)

Everyone else. Good game all. Radwulf when are you going to make another?

radwulf
Admin
centura neagra (7)

Posts: 1043
(10/27/02 9:53:51 am)
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Re: list of roles
as soon as I find a mod :)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence. (Manly's Maxim)

jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 75
(10/27/02 10:11:38 am)
203.106.247.147
| Del
Hmm...
Hmm... during that last night (when I had no spreadsheet) I was confusing Wonko with the Vigilante. Oh well, I would have been even more certain to kill Andrea had I known Wonko was 'just' a townie.

-JEEP

jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 76
(10/27/02 3:17:17 pm)
203.106.247.147
| Del
words from the infamous Antrax
here is what Antrax says I should have written around post 352
Quote:

I can't believe this farce has go on for so long.
We are down to one mafia member. One. There is exactly one person with an unbelievably role. It doesn't take a genius here, guys.
What do YOU think is more likely:
I'm mafia. I claimed FBI Agent even though the real agent could've come out and denounced me. Or wait, maybe we don't even HAVE an FBI agent! Maybe we're supposed to just huge the serial killer and relax him, or something. I mean, give the town a way to deal with the Serial Killer? Who does that? EVERY SINGLE FREAKING MOD DOES THAT, that's who.
On the other hand, what, could CO be lying with the claim of RANDOM COP? Let's go over what the role claim gives him:
  • An excuse on why he's armed.
  • A way to get one innocent lynched (and then he finds out, "oh no, I'm random!";)
  • An undisputable role claim (how many excess cops do you think we have?)
  • A way of luring out a cop, if all else fails.


So who do you think is lying? Who is more likely? Which game sounds more balanced to you, one with two bad cops and no way to stop a serial killer, or one where OC is just a BIG FAT LYING MAFIA SCUM.

Use your bloody brains. vote: OC
Antrax


(without his sig, of course.) He sent that to me after the game...

-JEEP

Diplomat A
centura verde (3)
Posts: 54
(10/28/02 12:31:41 am)
12.251.237.8
| Del
3xx
Whoa, nice game overall. For the last two days, I was almost sure it was Wonko. Good play, Jeep. Reminds me to keep an open mind.

I wish I had a chance to defend myself. I didn't have much time that day to look back at the thread. I don't know why Wonko went after me, especially after he previously believed that I was telling the truth.

I don't think anyone with a significant role has figured out the full complexity of their role in this game. There just weren't too many nights to be able to do that.

joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 76
(10/28/02 12:02:06 pm)
80.24.10.3
| Del
Nice game ppl..
Cool game..
If jeep would not have been protected during the night..

so..Jeep..
I targeted you, the night the mafia killed me.. but since you were the godfather.. u survived... (ARGH!!!)
My method of killing was: Ran over by a jeep :)

I somehow suspected i shouldn't use a gun.. (radwulf asked me to submit the method of killin' too) .. so.. i went with WATERRRR! :)

anyways.. cool game..
lookin' forward to the next RMC english game. (RMC - Romanian Mafia Club)

good game mod..



:.:.: - delirious - :.:.: the power a l w a y s comes from above :.:.:

jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 77
(10/28/02 2:14:42 pm)
203.106.247.147
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Why?
So joesatri, why did you try to kill me? I think I clearly told the instigator (you) that I was mafia in the first two days, so you knew my role claim was false... had you somehow let me know you were our instigator, I would have definitely not killed you.

I knew that FBI claim was pretty golden since I couldn't be killed at night. That was my biggest concern, though... someone should have asked: why would the SK let the FBI agent survive? I'm just glad that no one did.

-JEEP

Captain Blicero
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 28
(10/29/02 11:58:43 am)
129.94.6.28
| Del
Good game, all
Yeah, I wondered about that, but I just assumed that the SK had a certain chance of not killing (since there was no Night 1 kill).

Well played, jeep... well played.

So the town didn't have any way to detect the SK? Ouch.

This game is a great example of why I should never be given a killing role.

joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 77
(10/29/02 12:30:17 pm)
80.24.10.3
| Del
Re: Why?
Jeep, with you dead, i could have won the game..
My goal was to win alone. This is my role:
Quote:

you are the SERIAL KILLER

you kill at night and try to eliminate both the mafia
and the townies. you have certain advantages, try to
make good use of them.

1) you will be out of town during the first night: you
can't kill, nor be killed during the first night

2) the mafia thinks you're an instigator working for
them: they will send you a target every night whose
lynching they expect you to instigate during the day.
if you succeed into instigating the mafia target
twice, you will join ranks with the mafia: you will
take part to their night conversation, while secretly
still plotting to destroy them and the townies. the
mafia does not know your identity, but they are told
of the existence of an instigator working for them.

3) you are capable to escape one lynching unharmed




I had a pretty powerful role, i had andreahef on my side, (she invesigated me, i had no weapon), DiplomatA was pretty much on my side... (i think) so..
I would have killed wonko the next night..

Even though i didn't make it through the end.. this was a fine game..

thx radwulf



:.:.: - delirious - :.:.: the power a l w a y s comes from above :.:.:

jeep
centura verde (3)
Posts: 78
(10/29/02 2:33:22 pm)
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SK
Joesatri, I understand that you were trying to win on your own, but I would have been a good ally (i.e. the mafia wouldn't have killed you and wouldn't have tried to get you lynched.) I think you should have played up the "I'm your instigator" advantage.

-JEEP

radwulf
Admin
centura neagra (7)

Posts: 1057
(10/29/02 6:59:13 pm)
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Re: MAFIA 10 (in English)
Absolutely! The game was designed so that the SK would have a protection against townies (that free escape from the 1st lynching) and protection against the mafia, in the form of them thinking SK is their instigator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence. (Manly's Maxim)

radwulf
Admin
centura neagra (7)

Posts: 1060
(10/30/02 6:58:31 am)
12.248.23.34
| Del
Re: SK
Another cool trick Joesatri could have tried, was to kill with a firearm towards the end (ideally Andreeahef, AFTER she had investigated him). Towards the end, only Wonko and Joesatri were considered unarmed, while there were all these roles: OC, Captain Blicero, Diplomat, Jeep who were armed and claiming armed roles. That move would have cleared Joesatri from both the possible Mafia and the possible SK lists.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence. (Manly's Maxim)

Edited by: radwulf at: 10/30/02 6:58:58 am
Benyp
centura galbena (2)
Posts: 26
(10/31/02 4:27:59 am)
12.249.172.50
| Del
Hello

Bravo
:aplauze for all


Live is hard when you're alive,but better try to do better and better and better...

joesatri
centura verde (3)
Posts: 79
(10/31/02 5:46:28 pm)
80.24.10.3
| Del
Re: SK
Andreeahef believed i was inocent....
If i would have gotten jeep that night.. argh!!

The next in line would have been Wonko, who messed my plans a few times in the game ( By the way, GOOD LOGIC Wonko.. )



:.:.: - delirious - :.:.: the power a l w a y s comes from above :.:.:

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