Mafia 1 - The CROWN - GAME OVER!

Guilt is a numbers game.
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EscapedConvict
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#301

Post by EscapedConvict »

Yeah, my vote stays.

Gridfon
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#302

Post by Gridfon »

Telvek wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:24 pm
Of course Mafia gets a free night if we decide to lynch nobody but Imho, the chance of killing an innocent guy is too high.
I would like to wait for the first victim and then investigate with whom the victim worked together in chat.
I have not worked with anyone yet. Neither have you. So it's a rather pointless tactic.
Heffie wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:35 pm
I'm voting for trigardon to get a role immediately and then decide best course of action. I'd rather knock on this door and get more information and be sure of a lynch (Moxy) than just pull the trigger without due diligence and be potentially wrong. It's suspicious that he was excited about the game and hasn't been posting so I'd like to hear a role.
It's very premature to expect a role declaration from Trigardon right away. It's fair to expect him to turn up and speak really soon, though.

Also, being excited about the game does not mean he would post a lot at start. There was close to no substance to go off, until (roughly) the previous 24 hours. But all the initially pointless first-hour posting served its purpose; the substance is here. Time to start.

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Heffie
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#303

Post by Heffie »

valli wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:14 pm

add radwulf
You are really very aggressive and pushed for role declarations quite a lot. Now that you by others to claim yours, you are trying to ignoring this. Heffie is trying to obviously defend you now after being almost 2 days silent. That's for me really odd ... Also this non-sense of pre-lynch and last chance.

Summary
For me this situation is a dilemma, there are a lot of inactives, which make me very unhappy.
There is radwulf, telvek and moxy which all make me worry.
Allow me to properly summarize your post and overall activity. You saddled up only to throw shade on literally everybody especially the inactives because it's the politically correct thing to do and several people have already pointed them out, you review the votes, and are generally unhappy but don't push for anything specific one way or the other.

As for me defending radwulf after being away for 2 days, I already explained my absence. I also am not defending radwulf, I'm defending logical and rational thought regardless of whom the players are and sounding it out in hopes of us making group decisions as opposed to scatterbrained commentary like grandmas on the porch criticizing everyone and their dog. I don't know if radwulf or EC are guilty or not, time will tell - they could both be innocents just arguing for the sake of arguing because they've played for a long time, missed eachother, and this is what they've been dreaming about over the past 10 years.

People just silently watching and waiting for time to run out are either unsure that there's valid proof to lynch anybody or are waiting for someone to make a move so they can follow...waiting to pounce, so to speak.

If you're comparing radwulf's actions, posts, and comments Vs Moxy's, no one in their right mind would lynch him Vs Moxy. Not lynching anybody is another potential decision. My PoV is we go after trigardon or behemoth as likely suspects to check into further and make good use of the rest of the day since this isn't going anywhere.

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Heffie
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#304

Post by Heffie »

Gridfon wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:34 pm
Heffie wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:35 pm
I'm voting for trigardon to get a role immediately and then decide best course of action. I'd rather knock on this door and get more information and be sure of a lynch (Moxy) than just pull the trigger without due diligence and be potentially wrong. It's suspicious that he was excited about the game and hasn't been posting so I'd like to hear a role.
It's very premature to expect a role declaration from Trigardon right away. It's fair to expect him to turn up and speak really soon, though.

Also, being excited about the game does not mean he would post a lot at start. There was close to no substance to go off, until (roughly) the previous 24 hours. But all the initially pointless first-hour posting served its purpose; the substance is here. Time to start.
I disagree. Moxy, the prime suspect of today and the only person who made a claim to a role, allegedly blocked him last night and you may recall that there was no murder. Not sure what other compelling evidence you would need.

I would also like to point out that almost the entire day passed with no trigardon especially after being under suspicion since basically the very beginning. Tomorrow it'll be the fourth day. When would you expect him to respond?

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EscapedConvict
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#305

Post by EscapedConvict »

radwulf wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:29 pm
EscapedConvict wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:09 pm
4. Is it OK for a townie (especially a veteran) to ask another player (especially another veteran) for a role claim so early on if it's not a pre-lynch last chance situation?
4. Sure. You are free to ignore it if others don't find merit in the accusations. In what way does that harm the town? Especially when (in my mind) you would have only been able to comply with the request IF and ONLY IF one third of the players agreed to vote you.

Can you indulge me and answer question 4 again please.
Lets say this time you are operating under the assumption that role claims do not need a number of votes to be legal. (just like we have now after Daemon removed the requiremenr)

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#306

Post by Gridfon »

radwulf wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:44 am
As for the hardly active/no-substance, or hardly active/scummy-substance posters, we could use the multi-lynch to our advantage and try to vote a bunch of them off in short order. I'm sure the scum density among them is higher than in the general population.
You seem to imply that the less active posters are more likely to be mafia. That intuition seems wrong to me. Mafia players have more initial information (the identities of other mafia players) and that ought to make it easier with the activity at start (which includes attacking other mafia players because that is not likely to lead to a lynch on first day, and builds nice alibi down the line). So, to the contrary of what you said, I think the (initially) inactive players are more likely to be innocent.

It is still valuable to target them, because some fraction of them will never start posting (unless promptly forced to) and are a dead weight, even if they happened to be innocent.

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#307

Post by Sander »

Last note, if there is a standoff or nothing happens, I will change my vote to Trigardon before the day 1 ends.

Also, radwulf, you’ve chosen not to respond to this directly. As you've asked for Moxy's role as well. I do believe this is not to be not ignored that simply. Since Trigardon is clearly not responding, no point in waiting on him.
Sander wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:28 pm
Therefor I will vote radwulf. Maybe it's time you took to defending yourself instead of deflecting and attacking all the time. You were asking Escaped convict for his role one the very first day with 3 random votes. You have 4 votes now. If you follow your own reasoning, you would want to see a role declaration of yourself. I wonder how 'solid' and ethical you really are.
Zero, you never replied to me. And you have posted.
Sander wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:44 am
I’m talking about this.
zero wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:21 am
Sander wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:45 am
Zero, it's when the explicitly is there, you do nothing. That is what bothers me.
Can you elaborate please? I fail to understand what you are referring to and which explicit behavior I chose to ignore.
Escaped convict had three votes at the time. He got one early game as a random vote from Bombaclaat. Wake up post 14. Escaped hadn’t posted or wasn’t name at that time at all.

Radwulf himself voted against him, and right before he wants to know his role, Behemoth voted also against him. 3 votes, early game, in a match with no intel, he asks for a role. It’s radwulf that wants to immediately know what he does. But for some reason, you find it acceptable of radwulf.
radwulf wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:36 am
EscapedConvict wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:02 pm
I'm giving everyone the benefit of the doubt at this point.
Personally, I'd like a role claim from you at this point, should you gather the required votes for it.

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#308

Post by EscapedConvict »

QUESTION FOR THE MODERATOR:

Daemon, was this rule changed at the time of your post quoted below or was it changed before the game started?
Daemon wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:01 am
At certain of our peers' behest, that rule requiring a minimum amount of votes before allowing players to require role claims from others has been removed. (Just making sure it was known, although the game rules are in the 1st post.)

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#309

Post by Gridfon »

Heffie wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:38 pm
I disagree. Moxy, the prime suspect of today and the only person who made a claim to a role, allegedly blocked him last night and you may recall that there was no murder. Not sure what other compelling evidence you would need.
Requiring a role declaration from Trigardon would imply we trust Moxy. Do we?
Heffie wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:38 pm
I would also like to point out that almost the entire day passed with no trigardon especially after being under suspicion since basically the very beginning. Tomorrow it'll be the fourth day. When would you expect him to respond?
He's been under suspicion for less than 12h now.
It just took me 4h (with some major distractions, I admit) to read through the 220+ posts that were posted since my initial post roughly a day ago.

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#310

Post by Heffie »

Gridfon wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:55 pm
Heffie wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:38 pm
I disagree. Moxy, the prime suspect of today and the only person who made a claim to a role, allegedly blocked him last night and you may recall that there was no murder. Not sure what other compelling evidence you would need.
Requiring a role declaration from Trigardon would imply we trust Moxy. Do we?
Heffie wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:38 pm
I would also like to point out that almost the entire day passed with no trigardon especially after being under suspicion since basically the very beginning. Tomorrow it'll be the fourth day. When would you expect him to respond?
He's been under suspicion for less than 12h now.
It just took me 4h (with some major distractions, I admit) to read through the 220+ posts that were posted since my initial post roughly a day ago.
If we want to be sure Moxy is guilty, then we need to know about trigardon. I believe Moxy lied about the blocking, but if you're not willing to lynch him because you're unsure, then you should be the first in line inquiring about trigardon right?

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#311

Post by Gridfon »

Here is my take on Moxy. Many of us here have known him for a long time, although in different capacities. The capacity in which I know him, it does not surprise me in the slightest that he wants to follow (what he thinks are) established rules and be very loyal to the authority. At the expense of disregarding any "common sense" that conflicts with it. ("Common sense" is often not "common" at all, anyway. It's merely a cultural artifact.) It's not a bad quality per se; I imagine it would serve him good in military. But perhaps not in mafia. So I was not surprised or suspicious in the slightest that he was vehemently against the idea that the game could have started with a very small number of mafia players, and they are infecting an additional person every night.

Everything that followed is puzzling. I do not believe his claim he tried to bait people to bandwagon against someone on purpose. I find it very unlikely that he has two different NTA abilities. But I also know Skuggi as a very smart and non-impulsive person. I do not expect Skuggi to play along with a mafia buddy in order to gain temporary benefit at the expense of being in any disadvantage in long run. So I trust that Skuggi indeed received the message (note: not necessarily from Moxy).

So let me speculate on some of this:
- Does Moxy really have two NTAs? Not necessarily. But he might belong to a faction that could communicate during the night, and the two NTAs might belong to two different players. That would very likely mean that Moxy is mafia though. Why would mafia have an ability that sends a message? At least one explanation was provided above (to gain trust and backstab later), but I'm not quite buying it.
- To me it looks likely that Moxy is a part of non-mafia and non-innocent(traitor? psycho?) group. His claim about having ordinary security guards amongst us could be true, but then he's probably omitting the part that they might also have some fancy win-condition once they are able to identify each other.

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#312

Post by valli »

Heffie wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:34 pm
Allow me to properly summarize your post and overall activity. You saddled up only to throw shade on literally everybody especially the inactives because it's the politically correct thing to do and several people have already pointed them out, you review the votes, and are generally unhappy but don't push for anything specific one way or the other. [...]
You might have not read my second post at time of writing this but in the end I pushed for Trigardon, and indeed your are absolutly right I summarized the situation as we are closing in on the end of day one. I want to get myself and others an overview. As a fact it is not about being generally unhappy, it is about stating the things which make me uneasy. Might be others can follow up on that as well.

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Daemon
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#313

Post by Daemon »

EscapedConvict wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:55 pm
QUESTION FOR THE MODERATOR:

Daemon, was this rule changed at the time of your post quoted below or was it changed before the game started?
Daemon wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:01 am
At certain of our peers' behest, that rule requiring a minimum amount of votes before allowing players to require role claims from others has been removed. (Just making sure it was known, although the game rules are in the 1st post.)
When the game starts, read the rules maybe? :P If there's anything you want to know about stuff being written in the public game thread, read it yourself or ask the other players. If you have concerns about the game or you want to ask the mod a question, contact the mod - as opposed to public hearing. Says so in rule #5. Mods can't go around, publicly answering questions that would benefit one player's or another's discourse...

However, that goes both ways, and i shouldn't have made that notification publicly in the first place, even thought it's a rule that has the potential of upsetting the game.
Daemon receives a warning.

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#314

Post by Gridfon »

Anyway, Moxy is not going anywhere, even if we don't lynch him today. Trigardon is the key to some additional insight right now.

Unvote Stringer
Vote Trigardon

To clarify about Moxy, I'm not sure he has a way to prove his innocence by using his NTA. Whatever he claims about his next night's action, it will very unlikely to be conclusive. Because it would require a confirmation from another person who is trusted by everyone here, and it would also require that no one interfered with Moxy's actions.

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#315

Post by Heffie »

Daemon wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:16 pm

When the game starts, read the rules maybe? :P
Daemon receives a warning.
Ha!

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EscapedConvict
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#316

Post by EscapedConvict »

Daemon wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:16 pm
EscapedConvict wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:55 pm
QUESTION FOR THE MODERATOR:

Daemon, was this rule changed at the time of your post quoted below or was it changed before the game started?
Daemon wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:01 am
At certain of our peers' behest, that rule requiring a minimum amount of votes before allowing players to require role claims from others has been removed. (Just making sure it was known, although the game rules are in the 1st post.)
When the game starts, read the rules maybe? :P If there's anything you want to know about stuff being written in the public game thread, read it yourself or ask the other players. If you have concerns about the game or you want to ask the mod a question, contact the mod - as opposed to public hearing. Says so in rule #5. Mods can't go around, publicly answering questions that would benefit one player's or another's discourse...

However, that goes both ways, and i shouldn't have made that notification publicly in the first place, even thought it's a rule that has the potential of upsetting the game.
Daemon receives a warning.
Thought so.

I asked a question that pertains to the game as a whole and a question that also needed a public answer from the moderator (in my opinion) so it cannot be interpreted any other way. But I definitely see your point.
Thanks
PS: but if you gave yourself s warning, I should have gotten one too. j/k (I don't know why I keep asking for warnings - inside joke with the Mod. disregard)

Back to the game:
Radwulf, please answer my previous questions no.1 and no.4 again, based on the above. Your initial answers are invalid.
Just because Daemon made that post after you asked for my role did not mean that the rule, that didn't require 1/3 of the votes for role claims, went into effect only at that time, as you so purposely wanted it to seem like :)

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EscapedConvict
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#317

Post by EscapedConvict »

Vote count please?

FYI, less then 23 hours remain in Day 1.

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EscapedConvict
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#318

Post by EscapedConvict »

Vote count
(based on Joesatri's last count):
(can't guarantee it's 100% accurate)

6 Moxy
6 Trigardon
4 Radwulf
3 NO LYNCH
1 Behemoth
1 Blissie
1 EscapedConvict
1 Mary
1 Valli

An official vote count would be nice that includes who voted for whom.

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#319

Post by MrWaffles »

EscapedConvict wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:32 pm
Vote count
(based on Joesatri's last count):
(can't guarantee it's 100% accurate)

6 Moxy
6 Trigardon
4 Radwulf
3 NO LYNCH
1 Behemoth
1 Blissie
1 EscapedConvict
1 Mary
1 Valli

An official vote count would be nice that includes who voted for whom.
I have seven on Trigardon. There were four with Joesatri's last check, and since then Heffie, valli, and Gridfon have voted Trigardon.

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#320

Post by MrWaffles »

By the way, I made a list of all votes as we went along. It's a bit long and I may have missed something, so don't take it for granted. Also, if someone can show me how to attach a file, I can post in an easier to read format...

Order Player Vote
1 radwulf Moxy
2 EscapedConvict joesatri
3 Bombaclaat EscapedConvict
4 Princess.ruxi Bombaclaat
5 SilveXtru pelasgi
6 behemoth Siderite
7 Siderite behemoth
8 joesatri SilveXtru
9 zero radwulf
10 Noni zero
11 Adela radwulf
12 Trigardon
13 Moxy Trigardon
14 valli Skuggi
15 joesatri
16 EscapedConvict Adela
17 Emilly Mary
18 Mary Princess.ruxi
19 Mary
20 radwulf EscapedConvict
21 Trigardon Moxy
22 zero Sander
23 Nanaa vali
24 Heffie behemoth
25 behemoth EscapedConvict
26 blissie pelasgi
27 Mary phox
28 Moxy radwulf
29 blissie Moxy
30 Gridfon Stringer
31 radwulf Moxy
32 Moxy
33 zero
34 Skuggi Rene
35 phox Moxy
36 Princess.ruxi Moxy
37 SilveXtru Moxy
38 Sander Moxy
39 Rene Trigardon
40 Skuggi Trigardon
41 Moxy Trigardon
42 Sander blissie
43 zero Trigardon
44 Stringer radwulf
45 pelasgi
46 EscapedConvict radwulf
47 Sander radwulf
48 Heffie Trigardon
49 Telvek
50 valli Trigardon
51 Gridfon Trigardon

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#321

Post by radwulf »

Sander, my stance on Moxy and EscapedConvict was based on their suspicious behavior, not on how many votes they had at the time. On EC I was not followed by the town, because Moxy became a bigger suspect and he was bandwagoned. I will declare my role if I become the town's #1 suspect.

EC, I was not aware that rule had been removed, because the mod did not announce it separately in the beginning of the game--he just edited the rules. The answers describe my true state of mind and knowledge at that time.

Under the actual rules, I see no problem with someone stating they're so strongly convinced of someone's guilt that only a role-claim (or a stronger conviction) might make them change their vote.

With that said, our points are made, our votes cast, and enough hair-splitting has occurred over this. You think I'm mafia because I demanded your role too early.

I think you're mafia because you admitted to a mindset incompatible with a townie's, for trying to kill someone obviously affected by a NTA (Siderite), and for trying to kill someone who brought a net benefit to the game so far (me) over a proven liar, double-NTA player (Moxy) whom you're sure must be a one-man evil faction.

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#322

Post by joesatri »

We have a new mvp - Trigardon care to pick up the mike?

7 Trigardon
6 Moxy
4 Radwulf
2 NO_LYNCH
1 Behemoth
1 EscapedConvict
1 Mary
1 Valli
1 Zero

Mr Waffles, no need to attach files..

Fun fact: EC voted 6 times today :)

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#323

Post by joesatri »

radwulf wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:55 pm
.. I will declare my role if I become the town's #1 suspect.
Careful what you wish for... You're only 3 votes behind!

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#324

Post by radwulf »

Yeah. 1 unjustified from a lurker, 2 from scummy former lurkers (one of whom, Sander, I had already accused for non-constructive posting in page 1), and EC.

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#325

Post by joesatri »

MrWaffles wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:41 pm
By the way, I made a list of all votes as we went along. It's a bit long and I may have missed something, so don't take it for granted. Also, if someone can show me how to attach a file, I can post in an easier to read format...
You do realize you are the only one that is NOT on the list!
Even I am there and I'm not allowed to vote! (cost me a warning..)

Speak up!

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#326

Post by MrWaffles »

joesatri wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:03 pm
MrWaffles wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:41 pm
By the way, I made a list of all votes as we went along. It's a bit long and I may have missed something, so don't take it for granted. Also, if someone can show me how to attach a file, I can post in an easier to read format...
You do realize you are the only one that is NOT on the list!
Even I am there and I'm not allowed to vote! (cost me a warning..)

Speak up!
I never voted. You voted twice. I included every time someone voted for someone else or just unvoted/voted no lynch.

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#327

Post by MrWaffles »

Also, I am pretty sure that I'm not the only person who has not voted yet. There are not 28 unique names on that list if I am not mistaken...

Edit. Take that back. I am actually the only one who has not voted as there are 27 names. I vote No Lynch.

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EscapedConvict
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#328

Post by EscapedConvict »

Alright, here's a count with whom voted for whom and in what order also:
- I did meticulously go through the whole thread so I think it's pretty accurate.
- if someone cast a new vote but they didn't unvote I counted it and removed the previous vote (some people did forget to unvote)
- I didn't count votes that were in the wrong format. i.e. Adela voting for radwulf in post #24

Trigardon 7 (rene, Skuggi, Moxy, zero, Heffie, valli, Gridfon)
Moxy 5 (Tridatron, blissie, radwulf, phox, SilveXtru)
radwulf 3 (Stringer, Escaped Convict, Sander)
NO LYNCH 2 (pelasgi, Telvek)
EscapedConvict 1 (Bombaclaat)
behemoth 1 (Siderite)
zero 1 (noni)
Mary 1 (Emilly)
Valli 1 (Nanaa)
Phox 1 (Mary)

PS: Daemon, if you find mistakes feel free to edit my post.

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#329

Post by EscapedConvict »

and of course I misspelled a few names...mod, please, edit

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#330

Post by phox »

EscapedConvict wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:13 pm
Alright, here's a count with whom voted for whom and in what order also:
- I did meticulously go through the whole thread so I think it's pretty accurate.
- if someone cast a new vote but they didn't unvote I counted it and removed the previous vote (some people did forget to unvote)
- I didn't count votes that were in the wrong format. i.e. Adela voting for radwulf in post #24

Trigardon 7 (rene, Skuggi, Moxy, zero, Heffie, valli, Gridfon)
Moxy 5 (Tridatron, blissie, radwulf, phox, SilveXtru)
radwulf 3 (Stringer, Escaped Convict, Sander)
NO LYNCH 2 (pelasgi, Telvek)
EscapedConvict 1 (Bombaclaat)
behemoth 1 (Siderite)
zero 1 (noni)
Mary 1 (Emilly)
Valli 1 (Nanaa)
Phox 1 (Mary)

PS: Daemon, if you find mistakes feel free to edit my post.
Mary voted for me and then unvoted me as I last remember.

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#331

Post by phox »

Also you didn't add princess.ruxi's vote, didn't she vote for moxy?

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#332

Post by EscapedConvict »

True on both counts, phox, thanks

REVISED COUNT
- if someone cast a new vote but they didn't unvote I counted it and removed the previous vote (some people did forget to unvote)
- I added Adela vote for radwulf in post #24. I think the mod should decide if it counts or not. wrong format .but she did vote and I as a player can't take that away from her

Trigardon 7 (rene, Skuggi, Moxy, zero, Heffie, valli, Gridfon)
Moxy 6 (Trigardon, blissie, radwulf, phox, Princess.ruxi, SilveXtru)
radwulf 4 (Adela, Stringer, Escaped Convict, Sander)
NO LYNCH 2 (pelasgi, Telvek)
EscapedConvict 1 (Bombaclaat)
behemoth 1 (Siderite)
zero 1 (noni)
Mary 1 (Emilly)
Valli 1 (Nanaa)

PS: Daemon, if you find mistakes feel free to edit my post.

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#333

Post by Mary »

Oh wow, that was a lot of reading for a tired brain.

With the entire Moxy saga, I can't hand on heart say he's managed to convince me of his innocence. A lot of bad logic has been highlighted already that doesn't seem congruent with townie behaviour, more like scum scrambling to do damage control, sorry Moxy but you can't really blame people interpreting it as such given how you've played your game so far - the 'mafia honeytrap' explanation is still...well, ridiculous.

Trigardon was the first to rouse my suspicion (post 66) and his absence has not helped that in the slightest. I'm struggling with deciding whether one exonerates the other since it would require Trigardon to actually voice some thoughts! At this rate, I agree with joe that inactivity is hurting the town more. Although it looks like he's already got enough for a deadline lynch without needing mine, I will vote Trigardon and amend appropriately if he makes a miraculous appearance and justifies the absence as well as Moxy's intel. This vote is to mitigate against someone voting Moxy last minute and creating a tie.

@Emilly - kindly remove your vote, I took it as a friendly wake up call way back when this day began, but I'm starting to think you need one right back.

@pelasgi and Telvek - you're both either playing the 'lay low and hope no one takes much notice' card or you genuinely don't care about helping the town. Oh wait, both of those things are synonymous with mafia behaviour.

The Adela - behemoth thing is odd and will warrant further probing. @Adela, you mentioned the early vote on radwulf was based on instinct. Do you literally mean you had a feeling or have you got something that suggests radwulf is genuinely dangerous? I might be reading too much between the lines here, but please share since there are precious few hours of the day left. I could be wrong, but so far radwulf's pursuit of moxy has been justified so he's not nearly as suspicious to me as others, despite EC's beef with him.
Adela wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:35 am
For my vote I can say that at that moment, I just used my instincts.
edit: voted in wrong format

Gridfon
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#334

Post by Gridfon »

Mary wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:47 pm
Although it looks like he's already got enough for a deadline lynch without needing mine, I will vote Trigardon and amend appropriately if he makes a miraculous appearance and justifies the absence as well as Moxy's intel. This vote is to mitigate against someone voting Moxy last minute and creating a tie.
Nope, 10 votes are required for deadline lynch. Neither Moxy nor Trigardon are there yet.
You can find the required vote numbers in post #6.

Trigardon
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#335

Post by Trigardon »

Thanks for letting me read through 6 pages!
Trigardon arguing (even briefly) for no lynch was odd, that is to best tool the town has to get rid of mafia and one that shouldn't be forfeited so early in the game, agreed with moxy there. Some kind of discussion has to happen to arrive at a lynch so I don't think it's wise comparing first morning chatter to shooting someone randomly -> finger of suspicion earned
I'm sure "only monsters would lynch a poet" is very much less suspicious than me voting for no lynch!
Then there is also the Moxy vs. Trigardon, Zero vs. Sander and Behemoth vs. Siderite disputes, which bring forth valid points. There's plenty to get hung up on, but word choice is just a part of it.
It's rather Moxy vs the whole town from what I've seen.
Mary Mary... Forfeited so early in the game ?? This is the day when it's MOST LIKELY to lynch an inoncent person. We have so little to go on, that the odds are not in our favor...
Can't help but wonder why are you so.. trigger happy.. ?
Joe - there's unfortunately always a possibility to lynch an innocent person, since we don't know what people's real allegiances are (aka the whole point of the game of mafia). What bothered me about Trigardon was that his first instinct was to suggest a no lynch, before most of the players even got a chance to post. Why start with that?!.....votes can be changed once cast and they're a good way to get conversation going, they're a town's best weapon as has already been illustrated. I pointed out that his initial approach seemed odd to me, therefore suspicious....that's not being trigger happy, that's making an observation.
Someone has to start being a neutral! Can you sleep at night knowing you just lynched an innocent? I can't! :(
And I'm not the only one:
I've been following the posts so far and I kind of agree with Trigardon's original vote. If we do a random lynch today, we have 2/3 chance of killing someone innocent and only 1/3 chance of getting a mafia guy. Without any real info to go on, I'm worried that it makes us lose the game faster (if you are part of the town). Also, I would feel a bit bad if I helped lynch someone innocent.
Mrwaffles (#97) just had the same fear like I did. And no one is pointing fingers at him?
Anyway, back to our game at hand, I find the pacifists among us who promote "no lynch" as if to not raise any suspicion very suspicious. As other people have mentioned before, our only hope as townies is day-time lynching. Promoting any other behavior is typical of a rookie mob trying to "lay low" and not attract any attention upon themselves. Candidates here are Trigardon and MrWaffles.
Hah yeah sure. On the other hand randomly lynching people (changing votes more often than your own underwear) is less suspicious? Pointing at two guys not willing to live with the possibility of lynching an innocent is, on the other hand, taking my attention right now.
I’m also the townie blocker I blocked Trigardon and hey no kill, also he’s been hiding in the shadows. So yeah this is why I was reluctant to show my full role.
I can absolutely confirm this. But who says he blocked something evil instead of something good! Moxy was holding prejucides in the first NTA, so it's not surprise his first LYNCH vote was going towards me.
Unfortunately, i don't have a vote today, but I would like to know more about Trigardon.
Can somebody help with with some votes..?
I wonder why you don't have a vote today. Could you elaborate further? What would you like to know? It's easier for me to answer on existing questions. :p
And I wonder why alot of people are voting for me based off what YOU were saying right here. Right now it feels like you're some kind of mob boss to me...
In my own defense, it's no longer a random lynch. There's a claim, there's a hint of innocence and there's a strong indication for suspicion. Not just off words and activity behavior, but also through role claims. Trigardon should step up and share his claim with us, or be put in a spot where he has to.

I encourage Moxy voters to unvote for now, as well. Because a.)they're innocent with the role they claim, b.)they're lying obviously about everything c.)this is a bit sinister but their ability is the same and they're one of the bad guys, which isn't completely off the premise (As Stinger asks), but something to keep in mind indeed. BUT because we've a claim, we can ask them for specific actions if we need confirmation further and Moxy seems cooperative. The thing about lying when you do it really early on, it makes you really easy to read and we'll have a lot of time and possible future contradictions to tackle that one.

Change your vote to Trigardon, pretty please.
Why are you so keen to get to know other players roles? Looking out for your next NTAs victim?

As too many people are very suspicious because of how they react on different topics I Decided to switch my vote back to:
vote No lynch

The risk of lynching innocents is just too high imho.

(Off-topic: sorry for not being able to answer earlier, I'm aware this post is too late. Just came from home from double-shifting. Hopefully I didn't miss anything out. And yes, I'm tired as hell so I might answered on stuff that was answered before.)

EDIT: Forgot to vote. Does it still count? Added it anyway.

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EscapedConvict
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#336

Post by EscapedConvict »

Trigardon wrote: I can absolutely confirm this. But who says he blocked something evil instead of something good! Moxy was holding prejucides in the first NTA, so it's not surprise his first LYNCH vote was going towards me.
Ok then...I think everyone should withdraw their votes on Trigardon for now..
Unfortunately time is not on our sde today anymore.

I'm good with lynching Moxy or radwuld at this point.

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valli
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#337

Post by valli »

unvote Trigardon

So skuggi confirmed receiving a message, Trigardon confirmed being blocked. Thats at least something ...

Making breakfast now ... and then see how we continue hear ...

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phox
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#338

Post by phox »

EscapedConvict wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:13 pm
Alright, here's a count with whom voted for whom and in what order also:
- I did meticulously go through the whole thread so I think it's pretty accurate.
- if someone cast a new vote but they didn't unvote I counted it and removed the previous vote (some people did forget to unvote)
- I didn't count votes that were in the wrong format. i.e. Adela voting for radwulf in post #24

Trigardon 7 (rene, Skuggi, Moxy, zero, Heffie, valli, Gridfon)
Moxy 5 (Tridatron, blissie, radwulf, phox, SilveXtru)
radwulf 3 (Stringer, Escaped Convict, Sander)
NO LYNCH 2 (pelasgi, Telvek)
EscapedConvict 1 (Bombaclaat)
behemoth 1 (Siderite)
zero 1 (noni)
Mary 1 (Emilly)
Valli 1 (Nanaa)
Phox 1 (Mary)

PS: Daemon, if you find mistakes feel free to edit my post.

EC, what about Mr Waffles? Didn't he vote No Lynch?

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#339

Post by Sander »

So, it's true that Moxy get's his story confirmed by two other people. However, that does not make him townsfolk. If he were Mafia, and Trigardon got blocked by Mafia, he would have known of it. Plus, I don't see the logic in coming forth with that. If we were to Lynch trigardon, who than turns out to be a townsman, Moxy would have gained one day.

On the other hand, sending night messages, still looks like a traitor ability for me. But how would he know about Trigardon then?

Question, is it relevant to ask from trigardon how he got blocked? I would assume how Mafia blocks is differently from how townsmen block. If we can determine whether his block was on a friendly way, or a more evil way, maybe that gives us another clue about Moxy. Or would that lead to nowhere?

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behemoth
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#340

Post by behemoth »

Hey again everyone.. so regarding my absence, I am on US Central time and due to my work schedule I can sometimes only catch up with the game late at night.

Regarding Adela, I was offering an explanation of her absence in the context of a discussion about silent players. Some silent players have aggravating factors while others have mitigating circumstances. If we started lynching the inactives, it would make logical sense to me that we would start with the more suspicious ones. I offered several reasons why someone like Siderite would be high on the list of suspicions. I also pointed out that Adela is new to the game, the implication being that someone who is playing this for the very first time might need a day or two to figure out what is going on and find their foothold in the game. I fail to see why or how that is suspicious, but if you guys insist that it is, then please let's be fair and point the finger at everyone who has done this --> see Noni's post #175
Noni wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:15 am
just to bring some context - phox is playing for the first time on a forum and taking ages to write a post it totally in her character i can vouch for that. especially when it's her first post:) i would not read too much into that.
It was also pointed out that it's suspicious for me not to know an acronym like NTA and/or OG. I didn't read the thread about game mechanics precisely because I had played the game before, and it would be a pointless move at best for anyone who in fact knows the acronyms to claim that they don't. Regardless, I actually didn't. You can take that at face value or not.

Lastly, I believe some took issue with my requests for role declarations.
Sander wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:44 am
In addition, I dislike Behemoth his behavior. Behemoth jumped onto Moxy his role declaration right after Daemon interfered with rules. Radwulf had not asked for Moxy his role at that time. He asked for Escaped Convict’s. Behemoth seems to be eager to bandwagon on anyone.
I asked for Moxy to shed light on his role as his inconsistencies became more egregious. It was irrelevant to me whether Radwulf or anyone else asked for his role at that same time, because in my estimation his suspicious behavior warranted a role claim. As for bandwagoning on anyone, that's hardly the case. I stand by my suspicion that Siderite is scum, I still wonder about EC for reasons I will elaborate in a separate post, and right now I vote: Moxy for the reason that I don't buy his role and don't see how it can possibly be good for the townies. Between that and his inconsistencies and contradictions, he is the player most worthy of a lynch. There's a romanian saying that I hope won't be fully lost in translation - 'don't give away the bird in your hand for the bird on the fence'.

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#341

Post by zero »

Sander wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:53 pm
Zero, you never replied to me. And you have posted.
My attention was diverted by Moxy vs. Trigardon and radwulf vs. EC. There are far more suspicious people at the moment than yourself.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the radwulf vs EC. I have been following it since its inception and I found Heffie's comments pretty much bang on with my instinct. I tend to believe that both radwulf and EC are most likely townies and squabble over what I perceive to be semantics and because they just missed squabbling with each other. On the other hand, the other people that are trying to bandwagon on EC's attack on radwulf are far more suspicious to me.
Heffie wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:34 pm
As for me defending radwulf after being away for 2 days, I already explained my absence. I also am not defending radwulf, I'm defending logical and rational thought regardless of whom the players are and sounding it out in hopes of us making group decisions as opposed to scatterbrained commentary like grandmas on the porch criticizing everyone and their dog. I don't know if radwulf or EC are guilty or not, time will tell - they could both be innocents just arguing for the sake of arguing because they've played for a long time, missed eachother, and this is what they've been dreaming about over the past 10 years.
Moreoever, Heffie hits the nail in the head again with this:
Heffie wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:34 pm
People just silently watching and waiting for time to run out are either unsure that there's valid proof to lynch anybody or are waiting for someone to make a move so they can follow...waiting to pounce, so to speak.
More often than not, people are claiming to be pacifists whilst just waiting for the best bandwagoning opportunity rather than actively seeking the truth by interrogating, voting and putting pressure on people i.e., the only tools generally available to all townies.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gridfon wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:09 pm
So let me speculate on some of this:
- Does Moxy really have two NTAs? Not necessarily. But he might belong to a faction that could communicate during the night, and the two NTAs might belong to two different players. That would very likely mean that Moxy is mafia though. Why would mafia have an ability that sends a message? At least one explanation was provided above (to gain trust and backstab later), but I'm not quite buying it.
- To me it looks likely that Moxy is a part of non-mafia and non-innocent(traitor? psycho?) group. His claim about having ordinary security guards amongst us could be true, but then he's probably omitting the part that they might also have some fancy win-condition once they are able to identify each other.
Excellent analysis from Gridfon and I am inclined to agree with the above. Something does not sit right with Moxy's role claim. In my opinion, he's not a townie.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trigardon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:08 am
Thanks for letting me read through 6 pages!
Hah yeah sure. On the other hand randomly lynching people (changing votes more often than your own underwear) is less suspicious? Pointing at two guys not willing to live with the possibility of lynching an innocent is, on the other hand, taking my attention right now.
And how would no lynch actually help us, the townies? If we do get to lynch someone, as "random" as you imply it to be, which it obviously isn't, if we get it wrong or right, there will be plenty of soul searching the following day and much easier to separate wolves from the sheep than without any lynching going on.
Trigardon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:08 am
Someone has to start being a neutral! Can you sleep at night knowing you just lynched an innocent? I can't! :(
And I'm not the only one:
I can hear the world's smallest violin playing a tune at the same time I was reading the above.
Trigardon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:08 am
Mrwaffles (#97) just had the same fear like I did. And no one is pointing fingers at him?
I did. You must have missed it whilst reading through 6 pages.
Trigardon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:08 am
I can absolutely confirm this. But who says he blocked something evil instead of something good! Moxy was holding prejucides in the first NTA, so it's not surprise his first LYNCH vote was going towards me.
Well, the fact that nobody died last night could imply that Moxy blocked you from killing someone.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We are pretty much in lymbo at the moment. Our choices are: lynch Moxy, pursue a role declaration from Trigardon although there is little time left to scrutinize it or leave it at that and go with no lynch.

I for one will go with my instinct and will unvote: Trigardon and vote: Moxy

As I said, I think we don't have any time to scrutinize Trigardon even if he comes back with a role claim. I don't believe no lynching helps us at all since we return to the same situation tomorrow and out of everyone, Moxy is by far the most suspicious and his role claim has made nothing to dispel this for me even though his NTAs have been corroborated by others.

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blissie
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#342

Post by blissie »

@Tridatron what is your NTA that was blocked? We are still waiting on a role declaration from you.

For now I keep my vote for Moxy. Why? 2 NTA, and the fact that Moxy stated that the other person can reply, but the was no such confirmation from the other person. He only said that he received a message (nothing about the reply). Isn't that odd? In the first day you have to look for inconsistencies in the players narratives, because you lack information. About the other NTA... it is not unheard of a mafia member to block other player's NTA.

And also. If Moxy is the HEAD of SECURITY. Are there any other security members? That would make a bit of sense, no? Is it possible that this is a separate entity? Nor mafia, nor town? Like the security guards that want to take matter in to their own hands... (it's just a theory - (this clarification is for Moxy))

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blissie
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#343

Post by blissie »

pelasgi wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:12 pm
about myself... just a working nice guy; what I´m worried about is EscapedConvict, he talks too much... typically mafioso.
I´m pointing fingers!!!


But for the first day
vote NO LYNCH
what's up with that?

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Noni
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#344

Post by Noni »

behemoth wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:20 am


Regarding Adela, I was offering an explanation of her absence in the context of a discussion about silent players. Some silent players have aggravating factors while others have mitigating circumstances. If we started lynching the inactives, it would make logical sense to me that we would start with the more suspicious ones. I offered several reasons why someone like Siderite would be high on the list of suspicions. I also pointed out that Adela is new to the game, the implication being that someone who is playing this for the very first time might need a day or two to figure out what is going on and find their foothold in the game. I fail to see why or how that is suspicious, but if you guys insist that it is, then please let's be fair and point the finger at everyone who has done this --> see Noni's post #175
Noni wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:15 am
just to bring some context - phox is playing for the first time on a forum and taking ages to write a post it totally in her character i can vouch for that. especially when it's her first post:) i would not read too much into that.
1. The difference between our "interventions" is: phox was posting, her posts had some substance to them and i was adding my two cents into an accusation from moxy based on how long it took her to write a reply. I was not defending her inactivity due to her being new. I think you will find that she has contributed more than others and her posts have logic to them.
2. That being said, I don't consider your defense of adela scum like behaviour at this stage.

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Moxy
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#345

Post by Moxy »

blissie wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:51 am
@Tridatron what is your NTA that was blocked? We are still waiting on a role declaration from you.

For now I keep my vote for Moxy. Why? 2 NTA, and the fact that Moxy stated that the other person can reply, but the was no such confirmation from the other person. He only said that he received a message (nothing about the reply). Isn't that odd? In the first day you have to look for inconsistencies in the players narratives, because you lack information. About the other NTA... it is not unheard of a mafia member to block other player's NTA.

And also. If Moxy is the HEAD of SECURITY. Are there any other security members? That would make a bit of sense, no? Is it possible that this is a separate entity? Nor mafia, nor town? Like the security guards that want to take matter in to their own hands... (it's just a theory - (this clarification is for Moxy))
Like I said I have revealed everything, you k ow everything I know

And wow can people please note both my NTA’s were confirmed by both people and I the get two extra votes...

Just beware of the two people who added there votes on

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Moxy
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#346

Post by Moxy »

However if you have anymore questions fell free to ask and I will answer them to the best of my ability.

Until Trigardon role claims I will keep my vote on him. It was nice that he confirmed the block yes but he had no choice. He lie and I. Lynched and is revealed to be telling the truth and suddenly trig is no.1 suspect

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#347

Post by Stringer »

Unrelated to current disputes, I just reread the introduction story carefully.
And just gonna throw a few guesses around.

The two deaths are significantly different. One is stabbing, apparently in hurry to disable communication with outside world, another was a target of weaponized virus, aimed at someone who has knowledge to combat infections.
Keep in mind, it's not the same virus that made rats act synchronously, but still a weaponized virus, meant for pin-point accuracy, seeing as no-one else was infected.

So these are two murders, but it seems like they happened for different reasons and could be perpetrated by different groups

There are also two groups prominently presented in the story: "the Chinese" and "the One" - virus-infected beings.
It would make sense from story perspective that each group is behind one of the murders.

The Chinese were developing weaponized viruses, and suddenly left. I would guess that was meant to cover their tracks, to make sure no words get out of their experiments. I would also guess they also left some spies behind to that end.

The second group are the beings infected by unifying virus. It's hard to guess the motive of that group, but it would seem that the very basic motives - survival and reproduction should stand.

Then the video was released by someone (we still don't know who), accusing chinese experiments AND exposing the unifying virus at the same time.
At that point, goals of two groups partially aligned, seeing as they both would want to prevent communication to outside world. So either one could stab the communication specialist and destroy the equipment.

I would guess, however, that the microbiologist death is handywork of "the One" seeking to destroy those who can threat them, and is unrelated to video release (the virus, however fast, still needs time to act, and should not be able to kill the scientist within an hour, so he probably was infected before the video release). How they got their hand on the weaponized virus is an open question.

There is also a probably 3rd party involved, ones (or one) who has released the video.
Their motives would probably be survival - they learned of the threat but released video anonymously to avoid making themselves a target.

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#348

Post by behemoth »

Stringer - interesting observation about the possibility of multiple evil factions, and plausible I might add

Now to the topic of EscapedConvict vs. radwulf :)

EC - Your relentless grilling of radwulf seems disproportionate to his alleged missteps. There are players with much deeper holes in their reasoning and more glaring inconsistencies. Either he brings out in you some primeval male instinct of wanting to win an argument with him for argument's sake because he went at you first, or you're mafia and you want to take down the one opponent you deem as the biggest threat to your chances of success. For those of you who have played with them before, you would know what I mean.

I see your point, but it's not a clear-cut inconsistency on his part and there's room to see it both ways. But you're in 5th gear trying to make it stick, and others are falling for it because he does come across as having an aggressive style of play. Is it that you fear his accusations against you and want to capitalize on the momentum against him to bring him down while you still can?

If you really do have the town's best interest's in mind, consider for a second that there's weightier evidence elsewhere. And if possible, maybe reconsider his explanations with a mind that wasn't already made up. Otherwise I will be inclined to go with the second scenario where the town's best interests are not your own.

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joesatri
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#349

Post by joesatri »

behemoth and zero's vote swap to Moxy from Trigardon, BEFORE we got a vote claim from Trigardon, is reaaaaaally fishy!

Trigardon, it's your moment to shine! Don't play the "fool" card, you know what the question is. What is your role?

Only a bit over 10 hours left today!

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behemoth
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#350

Post by behemoth »

joesatri wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:35 am
behemoth and zero's vote swap to Moxy from Trigardon, BEFORE we got a vote claim from Trigardon, is reaaaaaally fishy!
Behemoth never voted for Trigardon

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