Mafia 1 - The CROWN - GAME OVER!

Guilt is a numbers game.
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Rene
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#2401

Post by Rene »

MrWaffles wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:50 am
Got it. @Rene, if we agree to a time to do instant lynch which is a couple hours before the deadline, would that be OK for you?

-MrWaffles

Edit: "Agree now" is what I meant
Yeah, that's perfectly fine. But keep in mind that I need to have a window of reaction for it, if I'm not around to use the ability and you get the numbers, I die. And I don't plan to sit in front of my computer watching this forums all day, either.

MrWaffles
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#2402

Post by MrWaffles »

Rene wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:55 am
MrWaffles wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:50 am
Got it. @Rene, if we agree to a time to do instant lynch which is a couple hours before the deadline, would that be OK for you?

-MrWaffles

Edit: "Agree now" is what I meant
Yeah, that's perfectly fine. But keep in mind that I need to have a window of reaction for it, if I'm not around to use the ability and you get the numbers, I die. And I don't plan to sit in front of my computer watching this forums all day, either.
Hi all,

Would you be open to having a instant lynch of Rene at 18:00 GMT/UTC on Sunday (two hours before deadline)? This way we can talk about other things for now, and at least have a way of testing his DTA with some time left to discuss afterwards if the day does not reset. We can cancel instant lynch plans if something more important comes up.

-MrWaffles

Rene
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#2403

Post by Rene »

I'm fine with this, but again this isn't in town's best interest. Accepting this means you're opting into not using any deadline lynches for day 4. I'll humbly comply with the consensus as I can't vote at all. Yet, this needs to be stated.

MrWaffles
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#2404

Post by MrWaffles »

Rene wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:06 am
I'm fine with this, but again this isn't in town's best interest. Accepting this means you're opting into not using any deadline lynches for day 4. I'll humbly comply with the consensus as I can't vote at all. Yet, this needs to be stated.
I agree. If anyone else is going to get deadline lynched instead, I will withdraw my request for Rene instant lynch.

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phox
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#2405

Post by phox »

Seriously @Rene, what's wrong with you.
🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I think there is no point in me repeating some of the things @Clemens @zero and @Noni already said, it'll just trigger you more and cause another time wasting series of your emotional (or super " logical" -as you would call them) comments we don't need.

Regarding my vote, I'll change it when I decide who I want to find out more about next.

Off topic: @MrWaffles 😂😂 I always enjoy reading your *walking on eggshels* polite posts, that have the form of emails 😂, so refreshing compared to the ones like "I'm the smartest, you guys suck and I'm gonna give you 3 options to choose from, you gotta trust me cuz I'm da boss" that other people post.

Clemens
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#2406

Post by Clemens »

So one NTA we haven't seemingly quite figured out is "Mandatory Cleaning" that @joesatri mentioned during D2 having happened in N2.
I am absolutely certain it is not related to the way he got infected, as neither @Princess.ruxi nor I experienced it when we were infected (in N1 and N3).
Even if you don't trust me, @joesatri and @Princess.ruxi are confirmed truthful so you can believe them.

So if it's not the cause of the infection, perhaps it cleans the infection.
Since @joesatri had cleaning and infecting in the same night, I would assume that it does not prevent the infection from taking place - it's not a doctor NTA.
It also doesn't "call someone away" to protect them like @zero's role, as then it would have very likely prevented the infection from happening as well - not a protector NTA either then.
This starts slimming down the possibilities of it being a purely townie NTA.
There are two possibilities I can think of:
1) it is indeed for cleaning traces of the infection, e.g. to make @Gridfon's life harder. Mafia NTA then.
2) it is just fluff to get someone out of the room so they can investigate the room. Could be any of the three factions then.

One more problem I have with Mandatory Cleaning, is that there would be little point to cleaning up the traces on someone about to die (as the soon-to-die would be able to call out that they are) or investigating @joesatri since Mafia knew he was going to die anyway.
But let me propose a counter-theory. Mafia didn't know that @joesatri would be informed that he is going to die. Perhaps that is a clue that @Daemon intentionally didn't tell anyone. Before @joesatri came out with the claim, no one even knew about it. Mafia infected @pelasgi, who didn't say a word of it one way or another, and so Mafia wouldn't have known, either. They also were expecting him to die the next night (they didn't know he wouldn't), and so may have decided to hide their tracks on @joesatri just to be safe.

Unfortunately, it may have happened to inactive players that never had the chance to tell us about it as well.
It could also just not be a regular NTA, a special limited NTA for special plans.

Clemens
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#2407

Post by Clemens »

MrWaffles wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:02 am
Would you be open to having a instant lynch of Rene at 18:00 GMT/UTC on Sunday (two hours before deadline)?
Alright, that's 20 CEST.
Could consider an hour earlier as well, so it's less close to @Rene's bedtime.

Clemens
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#2408

Post by Clemens »

I would like to hear more from:
@Heffie's role and nightly activity.
@zero's other nightly activity.
@Sander's "limited supplies" that have so far not been confirmed or even seemingly done anything.

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phox
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#2409

Post by phox »

Clemens wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:16 am
MrWaffles wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:02 am
Would you be open to having a instant lynch of Rene at 18:00 GMT/UTC on Sunday (two hours before deadline)?
Alright, that's 20 CEST.
Could consider an hour earlier as well, so it's less close to @Rene's bedtime.
😂bedtime. What is he, 5?
A deadline seems like a good idea, I agree.

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#2410

Post by Rene »

I like how triggered you lot are because I only implied "smarter people probably have figured my role out by now." And that how you missed out on a really simple equation of profit/loss. And I'm the one being called butthurt.

Are you trying to push to my buttons to get your beloved night early, @phox? It seems like you're doing this on purpose.

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#2411

Post by MrWaffles »

Clemens wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:14 am
Mafia infected @pelasgi, who didn't say a word of it one way or another, and so Mafia wouldn't have known, either. They also were expecting him to die the next night (they didn't know he wouldn't), and so may have decided to hide their tracks on @joesatri just to be safe.
Hi @Clemens,

There is something bothering me about the above. Pelasgi made two posts, one on the first day and one on the second day. I believe on the second day he posted after joesatri revealed he would die (joesatri posted imminent death on #642 while pelasgi posted that he was reading posts on #684).

If pelasgi was infected, fought off the disease, and knew about it, why didn't he tell us at that point? I don't expect you to be able to answer for him, but if he really was reading posts, why would he still keep quiet rather than helping the town?

Also just to check, do you know that you were infected on N1, or did you guess that because no one died the next night?

-MrWaffles

MrWaffles
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#2412

Post by MrWaffles »

phox wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:12 am
Off topic: @MrWaffles 😂😂 I always enjoy reading your *walking on eggshels* polite posts, that have the form of emails 😂
:D

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Heffie
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#2413

Post by Heffie »

@zero I like that you say I'm "disingenuous" for pointing out that we ended the calendar day with no full role claimed by @Rene or your response about who you've investigated. Both you and him got your panties in the same aggressive knot.

As @phox said, I don't want to add fuel to the fire of Rene's aggressive gameplay and unnecessary stalling. Also, being vote blocked does not mean you're innocent. I recall someone saying earlier in the game that the town's only real power is voting to lynch and you're basically saying we can't do that with you without suffering consequences which you keep threatening about. To me, it sounds like a role that is against the town. In fact, it sounds like it could be that martyr role where you take a voter with you and die for your beliefs, but that's just a hunch. Guess we'll see.

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phox
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#2414

Post by phox »

Rene wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:27 am
I like how triggered you lot are because I only implied "smarter people probably have figured my role out by now." And that how you missed out on a really simple equation of profit/loss. And I'm the one being called butthurt.

Are you trying to push to my buttons to get your beloved night early, @phox? It seems like you're doing this on purpose.
Dude,take a chill pill, I already disclosed my role and valli confirmed I'm clean. As for your buttons, I couldn't care less of them.😂

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#2415

Post by Rene »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:45 am
Also, being vote blocked does not mean you're innocent.
I have answered this same argument like 500 times already. What a game.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:45 am
I recall someone saying earlier in the game that the town's only real power is voting to lynch and you're basically saying we can't do that with you without suffering consequences which you keep threatening about.
It makes a lot of sense, design-wise to give it to someone else that's not town then? Got it.

I like how you've been showing up with nuances like this, giving an argument or two and then vanishing without disclosing anything about yourself ever since this game started. Keep it up, it will take you far.
phox wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:48 am
Dude,take a chill pill, I already disclosed my role and valli confirmed I'm clean.
Might as well stop attacking me childishly, before advising me to calm down. You're just outing yourself like that. It's been stated before by others but we don't know if valli is clean either.

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#2416

Post by Clemens »

MrWaffles wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:29 am
Pelasgi made two posts, one on the first day and one on the second day. I believe on the second day he posted after joesatri revealed he would die (joesatri posted imminent death on #642 while pelasgi posted that he was reading posts on #684).

If pelasgi was infected, fought off the disease, and knew about it, why didn't he tell us at that point? I don't expect you to be able to answer for him, but if he really was reading posts, why would he still keep quiet rather than helping the town?
Perhaps he lost interest in the game too early on, or perhaps he didn't want to risk breaking the no-quoting-emails rule.
He could also just have wanted to play it like I did, keep it a secret to observe how people react to him still being alive (which only Mafia would be confused about).
Perhaps he was concerned of claiming a role that is impossible to prove, or he was scared of being murdered during the night via physical means instead if they knew.
MrWaffles wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:29 am
Also just to check, do you know that you were infected on N1, or did you guess that because no one died the next night?
Clemens wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:48 pm
I believe I was victim to an infection on N1, my experience in N1 strongly implies this to be the case.
I inherited @pelasgi's history and thus experienced what he had - the fluff details the symptoms and how it was gone by morning.

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#2417

Post by MrWaffles »

Also @Clemens, I think zero may have already mentioned this, but Coronavirus death is caused by an overactive immune system if I am not mistaken. It's called cytokine storm. If you have a really active immune system, wouldn't you have definitely died?

Sorry if my comments are a bit pointed, but pelasgi not saying anything for two days has got me thinking a bit. I'm not accusing, but I think more discussion about this point and the one I asked just above would be very nice for me.

-MrWaffles

Edit: Just saw your answer to my first question. Thank you.
Last edited by MrWaffles on Sat May 02, 2020 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Heffie
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#2418

Post by Heffie »

About my role, I'm a researcher and specifically in the field of environmental biology. I go around in a hazmat suit all the time looking for proliferation of pathogens in the research station which means I can't be infected. I don't have an NTA, however I did receive the info that I was in the crew area looking for traces of pathogens when patient 0 released the virus from a canister to infect the first victims. I wasn't infected due to my suit, but the mask didn't allow me to see who patient 0 was or who they infected.

This is why I believed radwulf's nurse role and behemoth's protection from physical harm role because they fit with what I'd been told in the description. It became apparent to me quite early that mafia was infecting, someone was physically hurting people (e.g. with a hammer) and that the conspiracy theorists and co. must have been a third faction with the possibility of winning the game at the expense of the town. I also figured there was a psychopath and vigilante most likely. If we believe we have our vigilante, then a psychopath role with very limited ability may still exist.

I will need to take some time today to re-read everything and take some notes, but I'll keep an eye on any questions.

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Heffie
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#2419

Post by Heffie »

Rene wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:52 am
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:45 am
Also, being vote blocked does not mean you're innocent.
I have answered this same argument like 500 times already. What a game.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:45 am
I recall someone saying earlier in the game that the town's only real power is voting to lynch and you're basically saying we can't do that with you without suffering consequences which you keep threatening about.
It makes a lot of sense, design-wise to give it to someone else that's not town then? Got it.

I like how you've been showing up with nuances like this, giving an argument or two and then vanishing without disclosing anything about yourself ever since this game started. Keep it up, it will take you far.
phox wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:48 am
Dude,take a chill pill, I already disclosed my role and valli confirmed I'm clean.
Might as well stop attacking me childishly, before advising me to calm down. You're just outing yourself like that. It's been stated before by others but we don't know if valli is clean either.
This is the second time you've made an inaccurate and scummy accusation which you haven't backed up with a single fact today.

First, you said I bandwagonned everyone. Please show me at least once instance where I did that and killed a townie.

Secondly,I've just explained my role.

Thirdly, I don't just attack people and leave - actually have been playing the game the entire time and helped to lynch the baddies with solid arguments. Sounds like you're referring to yourself. This is the only day you've been active for the purpose of stalling, attacking literally every player left except @Gridfon, threatening the town and being this aggressive with anyone that says anything against you. You must realize that is classic mafia behaviour.

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#2420

Post by Clemens »

Interesting.
@Heffie
What is my role and its characteristics?

Rene
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#2421

Post by Rene »

Thank you, @Heffie.

This gives us two people those are immune to infections. Immune to the prime method for mafia to win the game, by the way. And they happen to be townies, good riddance.

And we make 4 people claiming to have no NTAs, right? Myself included.
First, you said I bandwagonned everyone. Please show me at least once instance where I did that and killed a townie.
Oh this is getting interesting.
Because it's true other townies, including myself, have been lynching townies LEFT AND RIGHT since Day 1. What a wonderful coincidence that you never missed the mark? Especially considering you have no NTA.

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#2422

Post by MrWaffles »

Clemens wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:07 am
Interesting.
@Heffie
What is my role and its characteristics?
I was wondering the same. If both Heffie and Clemens are to be believed, this means there are two players from town who are both immune to infection, but just have different names.

If two players can't have the exact same ability, maybe we can figure out which one is lying before Sunday?

-MrWaffles

Edit: I'm not saying two people cannot have the exact same ability by the way. But if experienced players have never seen that before, then maybe this is the place to focus our efforts...

Clemens
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#2423

Post by Clemens »

Why couldn't you guys just wait a moment and let her answer first?
Why are both of you spelling it out for her and making the problem obvious? :x

The big difference between our two roles is that mine comes with actual downsides other than just no NTA.

vote Heffie

MrWaffles
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#2424

Post by MrWaffles »

Clemens wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:13 am
Why couldn't you guys just wait a moment and let her answer first?
Why are both of you spelling it out for her and making the problem obvious? :x

The big difference between our two roles is that mine comes with actual downsides other than just no NTA.

vote Heffie
I'm sorry. I honestly thought when you asked her what your role was, it would have been pretty obvious to her. I did not realise you had a plan to go with that. I'll post a little more slowly going forward.

Rene
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#2425

Post by Rene »

@Clemens

I was about to point that out before you did, but then I had to read her attacks on me as well, so it was belated. Apologies if I spoiled your play, but yes, ability clash is there.

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#2426

Post by Sander »

The question is however, what are your downsides. So you are apparently sick. But unless you will die after x period. Being sick isn't that bad. Saying I'm blind doesn't mean anything in a mafia game. There is no real downside to being ill.

So we have a Two possible godfathers now. Both would measure clean ;-)

Heffie gives a bad vibe though. vote Heffie

Clemens
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#2427

Post by Clemens »

Fortunately, @Heffie wasn't the most active of players, so going through her posts is easier than some others.

DAY1
She started the first day with random banter and a vote on @behemoth for being anti-poet.

Her first actual participation has her accusing Moxy of being scum, but voting for Trigardon instead.
With the reasoning of wanting to see Trigardon's role on the first day, while not believing that Moxy is telling the truth. :?:

She then defends her vote choice by exclaiming that Moxy can't kill at night, so Trigardon is more important to kill.
So she implies that she believes Moxy's claim, yet says he's lying at the same time.
Together with her current role claim, how would she be able to tell?

She proceeds to take Radwulf's side.

She then throws in some names that are going after Moxy and Radwulf.

She then later points at @valli's suspicious playstyle, then throws a textbook at everyone, to finally finish off the post by once again confirming that Moxy is the baddie and not Radwulf, but avoids getting involved to instead namedrop Trigardon (again) and @behemoth in the hopes of getting role claims from them.

Next she uses Moxy's role claim to put pressure on Trigardon again to get a role claim, despite repeatedly stating prior that she doesn't believe Moxy.

She then goes back to discredit Moxy some more, that the message-NTA he claimed can only be sinister. But remains adamant that she wants Trigardon's role claim before killing Moxy.

Followed by justification for believing Moxy and not believing him at the same time. She wants Trig dealt with first, then Moxy - adamant about this.

DAY2
Moxy dies, and the next day she goes after Trigardon for obvious reasons.

She then claims that it's "pretty evident" that high temperature means infected.

The rest of her posts are spent waiting for Trigardon to react.

Once Trigardon is dead, she moves on to @behemoth.

She was adamant that there could be no alternative meanings to high temperature, while asking joesatri to hand over his remaining information before he dies.

DAY3
She refreshes her vote on behemoth, before "regretting" that she didn't warn anyone about not lynching Radwulf in time.

She mentions patient0 and @Daemon's backstory to the whole "became one" part. And tries to figure out the twin-paradox. Before switching her vote to @Sander to get a role claim.

Followed by some more twin-paradoxing; this time together with high temperature.

She then urged me to hurry up replying to @Sander so we can get @Sander's role claim quicker.

She comments on @Gridfon's role having certain similarities with Radwulf's role - namely investigating infection-related information.

She unvoted @Sander because @Gridfon's claims were more meaningful. Putting doubt on both him and me at the same time.

Then she voted for me because she didn't want to let me finish reading the remaining posts and writing my own post.

She then spreads tiny bits of doubt around onto @Noni and NTA count in general.

Lots of time passes, she takes blissie's death as confirmation of a third faction (as did most of us) and immediately bandwagons onto Siderite while confirming she'd like to go for Nanaa next as well. Only now does she ask about my immune system's side-efects, but doesn't actually put it into a quote (she puts it into quotation marks).

Doesn't want to switch from Siderite to Telvek, as she doesn't see the point.

Then lists Siderite, Nanaa, Telvek - stating two must be psychos and one must be Mafia. Vote remains on Siderite, though.

Asks about my claim that Mafia might have other NTAs to compensation their slower-than-usual method of night killing.

Then urges us to hurry up.

Elaborates that she has limited real world time to participate and that her sneaky play is primarily because of real life time constraints.

She let's us know she's willing to switch to Telvek, then later does so before we all go to real world bed.

She agrees with @Noni and @zero doubt over my role and behavior. But states that she didn't want to derail from current plans.

Then Emilly's contradiction happens and she throws a couple of theories around, but also says she needs to go back and re-read a lot of stuff to make an actual decision.

Then talks about the security team blockers (in reference to @zero's claim), and states that she still needs to re-read more to decide.

Once she's caught up, she votes for Emilly with plenty of reasons.

Emilly dies soon after.

She moves on to Nanaa immediately, who dies. Before she moves on to Mary, who dies together with EC. Then rushes to the next conspirator, Siderite, who dies from a deadline lynch.

And the rest is DAY4.


Unfortunately, most of her playstyle isn't particularly evil. Which, sure, is suspicious in its own right.
The only questionable thing I see is why she was repeatedly so slow and uncaring to my own role claim.

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Heffie
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#2428

Post by Heffie »

Clemens wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:13 am
Why couldn't you guys just wait a moment and let her answer first?
Why are both of you spelling it out for her and making the problem obvious? :x

The big difference between our two roles is that mine comes with actual downsides other than just no NTA.

vote Heffie
Wow, that was a quick reaction. I like that you supposedly lay a trap for me with the "what's my role?" question and think you have enough ammunition to vote for and lynch a townie who's behaved like one the entire time based on this.

Are you aware that you and I are not the only researchers in this game? So we're Adela 'bio-warfare" researcher and Gridfon "researcher". Also, there are quite a few investigative roles out there which are incredibly similar sounding or by description. Gonna follow up with another post outlining what else has been gnawing me about you for a while, but I didn't get to it (even though I said I would) until we got through the more obvious scum we lynched yesterday.

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#2429

Post by Clemens »

Sander wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:44 am
The question is however, what are your downsides. So you are apparently sick. [...] Being sick isn't that bad.
I've been trying to avoid spelling it out to not give anyone unnecessary ideas.

@Sander
Why do you keep ignoring my wish for an update on your role?
You know, after the lies and alleged cluelessness.

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#2430

Post by Clemens »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:20 pm
I like that you supposedly lay a trap for me with the "what's my role?" question
Not a trap, just very curious as to your explanation and your honest first reaction to it.
As stated, those two jumped the gun and didn't let you reply by yourself.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:20 pm
and think you have enough ammunition to vote for and lynch a townie who's behaved like one the entire time based on this.
Bringing some action back into this, since we're slogging on with little accomplished.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:20 pm
Are you aware that you and I are not the only researchers in this game?
Of course I am aware, I've been watching for that the entire time.
But it wasn't your role name that I questioned.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:20 pm
Gonna follow up with another post outlining what else has been gnawing me about you for a while, but I didn't get to it
Please do. It's about time.

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#2431

Post by Skuggi »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:58 am
I don't have an NTA, however I did receive the info that I was in the crew area looking for traces of pathogens when patient 0 released the virus from a canister to infect the first victims. I wasn't infected due to my suit, but the mask didn't allow me to see who patient 0 was or who they infected.
This feels important. Do you have any more information about what happened, or who was there?

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Heffie
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#2432

Post by Heffie »

Clemens wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:19 pm
Fortunately, @Heffie wasn't the most active of players, so going through her posts is easier than some others.

DAY1
She started the first day with random banter and a vote on @behemoth for being anti-poet.

Her first actual participation has her accusing Moxy of being scum, but voting for Trigardon instead.
With the reasoning of wanting to see Trigardon's role on the first day, while not believing that Moxy is telling the truth. :?:

She then defends her vote choice by exclaiming that Moxy can't kill at night, so Trigardon is more important to kill.
So she implies that she believes Moxy's claim, yet says he's lying at the same time.
Together with her current role claim, how would she be able to tell?

She proceeds to take Radwulf's side.

She then throws in some names that are going after Moxy and Radwulf.

She then later points at @valli's suspicious playstyle, then throws a textbook at everyone, to finally finish off the post by once again confirming that Moxy is the baddie and not Radwulf, but avoids getting involved to instead namedrop Trigardon (again) and @behemoth in the hopes of getting role claims from them.

Next she uses Moxy's role claim to put pressure on Trigardon again to get a role claim, despite repeatedly stating prior that she doesn't believe Moxy.

She then goes back to discredit Moxy some more, that the message-NTA he claimed can only be sinister. But remains adamant that she wants Trigardon's role claim before killing Moxy.

Followed by justification for believing Moxy and not believing him at the same time. She wants Trig dealt with first, then Moxy - adamant about this.

DAY2
Moxy dies, and the next day she goes after Trigardon for obvious reasons.

She then claims that it's "pretty evident" that high temperature means infected.

The rest of her posts are spent waiting for Trigardon to react.

Once Trigardon is dead, she moves on to @behemoth.

She was adamant that there could be no alternative meanings to high temperature, while asking joesatri to hand over his remaining information before he dies.

DAY3
She refreshes her vote on behemoth, before "regretting" that she didn't warn anyone about not lynching Radwulf in time.

She mentions patient0 and @Daemon's backstory to the whole "became one" part. And tries to figure out the twin-paradox. Before switching her vote to @Sander to get a role claim.

Followed by some more twin-paradoxing; this time together with high temperature.

She then urged me to hurry up replying to @Sander so we can get @Sander's role claim quicker.

She comments on @Gridfon's role having certain similarities with Radwulf's role - namely investigating infection-related information.

She unvoted @Sander because @Gridfon's claims were more meaningful. Putting doubt on both him and me at the same time.

Then she voted for me because she didn't want to let me finish reading the remaining posts and writing my own post.

She then spreads tiny bits of doubt around onto @Noni and NTA count in general.

Lots of time passes, she takes blissie's death as confirmation of a third faction (as did most of us) and immediately bandwagons onto Siderite while confirming she'd like to go for Nanaa next as well. Only now does she ask about my immune system's side-efects, but doesn't actually put it into a quote (she puts it into quotation marks).

Doesn't want to switch from Siderite to Telvek, as she doesn't see the point.

Then lists Siderite, Nanaa, Telvek - stating two must be psychos and one must be Mafia. Vote remains on Siderite, though.

Asks about my claim that Mafia might have other NTAs to compensation their slower-than-usual method of night killing.

Then urges us to hurry up.

Elaborates that she has limited real world time to participate and that her sneaky play is primarily because of real life time constraints.

She let's us know she's willing to switch to Telvek, then later does so before we all go to real world bed.

She agrees with @Noni and @zero doubt over my role and behavior. But states that she didn't want to derail from current plans.

Then Emilly's contradiction happens and she throws a couple of theories around, but also says she needs to go back and re-read a lot of stuff to make an actual decision.

Then talks about the security team blockers (in reference to @zero's claim), and states that she still needs to re-read more to decide.

Once she's caught up, she votes for Emilly with plenty of reasons.

Emilly dies soon after.

She moves on to Nanaa immediately, who dies. Before she moves on to Mary, who dies together with EC. Then rushes to the next conspirator, Siderite, who dies from a deadline lynch.

And the rest is DAY4.


Unfortunately, most of her playstyle isn't particularly evil. Which, sure, is suspicious in its own right.
The only questionable thing I see is why she was repeatedly so slow and uncaring to my own role claim.
Let me make this quick and easy to follow. Thanks for taking the time to go through my posts, at least it shows more commitment than just attacking me becAuse I'm a researcher.

1) Regarding Moxy. My point was he made a claim of blocking trigardon and there was no death resulting. Moxy's behaviour was scummy which everyone else also pointed out besides me and that's why they voted him. My point was, and still is, it makes sense to get a role claim out of trigardon first and confirm that Moxy is guilty prior to lynching him based solely on his attitude. Turns out I was right about my method and was right about them anyways. So I don't appreciate you try to twist this around to make it seem like I did anything wrong because you can't.

2) Gridfon and radwulf do have similar roles and Gridfon also realized it and explains it later on as a balance between finding out who had the virus and who has food poisoning. As noni pointed out later, the point of this role distribution is to get us to work together adding up the info from the various NTAs.

3) The only time I wasn't able to post in real life was before radwulf got lynched. Why are you making it seem like I said this repeatedly? I've been active the entire game.

4) I like that the bolded summary reflects that your attempt at throwing shade my way is unsuccessful, you're just hurt because I didn't care about your role claim or are you saying I didn't provide my role fast enough? If it's the latter, I should remind you that you e only started asking this morning whilst I was sleeping and I still responded this morning after I woke up :lol:

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#2433

Post by Clemens »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:58 am
This is why I believed radwulf's nurse role [...] because they fit with what I'd been told in the description.
Also, could you elaborate how wearing a suit, being immune to infections, and there being a patient0, has confirmed Radwulf's role to you?

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#2434

Post by Heffie »

Skuggi wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:28 pm
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:58 am
I don't have an NTA, however I did receive the info that I was in the crew area looking for traces of pathogens when patient 0 released the virus from a canister to infect the first victims. I wasn't infected due to my suit, but the mask didn't allow me to see who patient 0 was or who they infected.
This feels important. Do you have any more information about what happened, or who was there?
No, unfortunately the actual role description states I couldn't see also because of the hazmat suit.

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#2435

Post by Heffie »

Clemens wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:32 pm
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:58 am
This is why I believed radwulf's nurse role [...] because they fit with what I'd been told in the description.
Also, could you elaborate how wearing a suit, being immune to infections, and there being a patient0, has confirmed Radwulf's role to you?
Patient 0 is out there infecting people --> high temperature
I have a hazmat suit --> could not be infected by patient 0's canister release --> can't have a high temperature
Radwulf's role was to determine if someone has a temperature. Of course food poisoning likely also gives you one which then goes on to explain similar roles like Gridfon's.

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#2436

Post by Clemens »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:31 pm
Turns out I was right about my method and was right about them anyways. So I don't appreciate you try to twist this around to make it seem like I did anything wrong because you can't.
But you were wrong about them. They were both innocent. And they are both dead.
So what do you mean?
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:31 pm
3) The only time I wasn't able to post in real life was before radwulf got lynched. Why are you making it seem like I said this repeatedly? I've been active the entire game.
You said it more than once.
But why are you offended by me giving you the benefit of the doubt?
I don't understand your displeasure with me agreeing that your inactivity at certain points in the game are likely due to real life (and thus not necessarily because of scum). :roll:
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:31 pm
4) I like that the bolded summary reflects that your attempt at throwing shade my way is unsuccessful, you're just hurt because I didn't care about your role claim or are you saying I didn't provide my role fast enough? If it's the latter, I should remind you that you e only started asking this morning whilst I was sleeping and I still responded this morning after I woke up :lol:
You think our roles having the same immunity (just different fluff) is irrelevant?
So irrelevant that you didn't attempt talking about it many days later?
So irrelevant that we're wasting the day away doing nothing but listening to @Rene hide his insecurities?
You were the last one to claim a role, a role with an identical immunity, but somehow that struck you as vitally unimportant?

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#2437

Post by Rene »

I sincerely hope this town burns to ashes.

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#2438

Post by Sander »

Clemens wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:22 pm
Why do you keep ignoring my wish for an update on your role?
You know, after the lies and alleged cluelessness.
Cause, you know I don't have any intel. The only thing I know is that I can't target myself. And all my other intel I have already said. No one cares for it. So here I'll go again.

I target Joe in N2 and he still died. Hence that could only be possible if zero hid him from me, or someone led me to another room. We don't have any proof there is a NTA that deflects players to other players' room. Except for zero who hides players or comes to stay with players. Joe says he was called away. Which fits zero his NTa. You confirmed you weren't called away so my NTA does not do that. But for some reason no one finds it worthy to check zero out.

Unless Noni now says she was called away / had mandatory cleaning but that would mean you lied ;-)

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#2439

Post by Sander »

Rene wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:46 pm
I sincerely hope this town burns to ashes.
unvote Heffie vote Rene I'll let you burn instead. Ducking Sun.

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#2440

Post by Rene »

So I'm about to log out for today. But in order to hide my insecurities further:

I just want to throw this wall of text to you! Please don't digress from the Heffie issue though, it looks like a decent find. Anyways.

This is something I think turned we all turned blind eye to:
Unbeknownst to any, before this commotion, somewhere, in some lab, someone had touched something seemingly unimportant and totally unintimidating. And they became one.
One could read this into becoming the patient zero but:
The lab rats subjected to the altered virus infection developed an uncannily synchronized behavior. They appeared to act - and react - like a single organism, and soon, as the fingers of one’s hand - they were collaborating in attempting to subdue the environment, their cages, mazes and tunnel labyrinths where they were being tested and evaluated. Introducing a stimulus on one side of the maze would instantly trigger a reaction in rats on the other side, tens of meters away. They began using objects as tools, to construct domes where they could be shielded from prying eyes, and to build ramps and storied structures meant at bringing them closer to the maze wall edge.
What if the one in mention, is meant to be THE ONE. With a quite sinister fourth faction in play, that recruits members overnight.

Now keeping that in mind let's take a look at this article. It was an interesting read, that can perhaps shed some light on our end game discussions as well. It's disclosed that in a vanilla game where no neutral factions exist, without specialized roles, it's imperative that mafia numbers roughly be the square root of the total players in it to stabilize 50 percent winrate for both sides.

Given we've confirmed to have a third faction, and multiple detectives in our town, with the high possibility of the fourth faction's existence that we ignored for so long. This ratio is going to be skewed. Detectives turn it in mafia's favor obviously, but the neutral killers are also there to tip it the other way around. Let's still use it for calculations though, so we can go for the highly hypothetical "bare minimum mafia" there needs to be in this game.

5.2 is the square root of 27. Which is roughly 1 mafia player for each 5 town player. We already took out 3 mafiosos and 3 neutrals, just going to assume the security folks were town, as I did since the beginning. If I wanted to add a neutral party of 5 people, I'd take 4 from the town's space and 1 from the mafia for numerical fairness.

Let's assume I was generous and gave 6 people to mafia initially (0.8 generous, Christmas came early for the mafia.), because investigators exist and I'm being unfair with the 4:1 extraction ratio to implement neutrals. This puts us at a state with 5 mafia, with 5 neutrals and 17 townies.

So this strikes me as a balanced state, numerically. The mafia numbers still aren't a full digit below the square root of townies ratio, but they should be below a bit because despite investigators exist, outside killers and winconditions also exist. And they still are roughly the square root of the total amount of players.

This is assuming the fourth faction doesn't recruit members obviously, but I believe there's no reason to expect less than two mafia and two neutrals at this point. So that's my take. I don't know what you think about all that and I can't help you if it makes no sense at all. I just wanted to put it out there as a future reference if need be.

Anyways, here I log off and ponder about many other ways to hide my insecurities.;
Sander wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:00 pm
Rene wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:46 pm
I sincerely hope this town burns to ashes.
unvote Heffie vote Rene I'll let you burn instead. Fucking Sun.
Lol'd. It feels good to be remembered. But in all seriousness, I'll call the day off, keep your vote off me pretty please.

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#2441

Post by Clemens »

Sander wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:59 pm
But for some reason no one finds it worthy to check zero out.
Still waiting for him to share his other NTA results.

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#2442

Post by Heffie »

So here's what I've re-read on Clemens' role and how that came about. I don't know how to quote multiple posts here so I'll do my best by copy pasting what was said and the post numbers for reference.

1) Sander asks whether Clemens was called away in N3 or have cleaning. Answer is no to both #1129

2) Gridfon announces his role in post #1138: researcher - collecting air samples
Every night, I visit someone's room to collect air samples. By analyzing these samples, I can tell whether any infected player has been in my target's room since the last decontamination (this includes the host of the room themselves).
N1: I checked Stringer. He was clear.
N2: I checked Radwulf. He was clear.
N3: I checked Clemens. I found traces of infection in his room.


3) in post #1179 @Clemens claims he actually was visited (and simply hadn't answered Gridfon's prodding for filling in the night activity slots he kept posting):
Yes, I believe that @Gridfon's N3 result is correct. I believe as well that there are traces of an infection in my room. You are also correct that I (or Pelasgi specifically) falls into one of your listed NTA "?" victims, as the history I received when replacing him strongly implied that he was. I was hoping to keep my secrets a little bit longer to observe silently what people might be accusing me of, getting clues that only I could pick up on due to my own role. Unfortunately, you did it in a way that puts a lot more attention onto me than I wanted.
Avoids the question by asking a question of "how do you investigate the rooms?"

4) More stalling in post #1184
I was hoping for more than that, because I only have two problems with your role, @Gridfon.
One I will not disclose yet as it won't prove anything at this point (no clues for you Mafia observing).
5) In post #1185 @Gridfon once again prods that if what @Clemens says is true, he must've been targeted on N1

6) In post #1186 @Clemens admits it

7) In post #1187 @Gridfon asks why all the dishonesty about it?

8) In post #1189 @Clemens continues the stalling
I've been keeping it vague (and slow) so we could have some other players join in as well.
I want to hang on to a piece of information just a little longer for that purpose
9) Finally...in post #1196
I believe I was victim to an infection on N1, my experience in N1 strongly implies this to be the case.
But miracously, I am still alive."
I have a self-inflicted hyper-active immune system that makes me immune to viral infections - including coronavirus.
So those are likely the traces of infection that you have found in my room.
Not so miraculous after all according to your role claim. Interestingly, here you don't give the strain name that @Princess.ruxi and @valli both knew about. If you are immune to coronavirus because of your immune system, you wouldn't have traces of the infection in your room, do you realize that?

10) In post #1199
There might be some players who get converted into mafia instead of dying next day, and you might be one of them (e.g. it depends on your immune system)
I don't even know what you were trying to say here. We know people get infected, patient 0 has been the one infecting them. Are you admitting the ones with a bad immune system died whereas some of you get infected because of your immune systems? Sounds like you basically admitted being infected.

11) In post #1207
I am a Researcher that went into the field of microbiology for the sole purpose of curing my own chronic infection, subjecting myself to various vaccines and cures. As a consequence, I am now left with a self-inflicted hyper-active immune system which comes with other health-related downsides.
To add some fluff, I did experience the symptoms of the corona infection and physically suffered from it shortly hence I know it happened, but my body fought off the infection quickly. (N1 event.)
We finally get the name of your role. Based on your previous posts "the fluff" seems to be part of your role description from Daemon; however, you then state your body fought off the infection based on being targeted on N1. If this is suddenly fluff from Daemon's N1 email, you're getting this entire story about your body experiencing the coronavirus and fighting it off quickly but others were informed they're not feeling so well, later that they're going to die....this doesn't ring true to me.
I am inclined to believe that Corona kills people.
I would assume so, since "Infected Gardner" (I still think he may have been guilty, just from the role name itself) implies an infection in the name.
Food poisoning could also give you a false positive from how bodies and temperature work.
Actually being infected (with impending death) likely does have a higher temperature.
And to add another bit of fluff, one of my health-related downsides is an elevated temperature as well
You're saying Corona kills people while again saying some are infected like the gardener, so which is it? Then you admit the temperature bit is related but remind us with another "bit of fluff" presumably back to your role description that one of your health-related downsides is a high temperature.

What other convenient health-related downsides do you have? How does this make you innocent and make me guilty? Because I only have the original info in my role claim and a hazmat suit whereas you:
- have traces of infection in your room
- have a high temperature

That means both investigators would have found you guilty. How does that seem likely in a game where we have multiple investigators because there are different factions and diseases so we need to check all sources? You just look guilty on paper, according to the NTAs, your conflicting responses but yeah, I'm the guilty one?

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#2443

Post by Clemens »

A good a theory as any for the numerical balance that @Daemon was confronted with.

Patient 0 has been a recurring theme, with little to no obvious evidence out in public - I don't know what to think of it.
I imagine the conspirators are dead, but you're right that there could be someone else with ulterior motives out there.
I also imagine Mafia did not only have 3 members, so there should be more out there as well.

I hope to find at least one before night, and let @Rene prove his DTA thereafter.

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#2444

Post by Heffie »

Clemens wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:40 pm
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:31 pm
Turns out I was right about my method and was right about them anyways. So I don't appreciate you try to twist this around to make it seem like I did anything wrong because you can't.
But you were wrong about them. They were both innocent. And they are both dead.
So what do you mean?
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:31 pm
3) The only time I wasn't able to post in real life was before radwulf got lynched. Why are you making it seem like I said this repeatedly? I've been active the entire game.
You said it more than once.
But why are you offended by me giving you the benefit of the doubt?
I don't understand your displeasure with me agreeing that your inactivity at certain points in the game are likely due to real life (and thus not necessarily because of scum). :roll:
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:31 pm
4) I like that the bolded summary reflects that your attempt at throwing shade my way is unsuccessful, you're just hurt because I didn't care about your role claim or are you saying I didn't provide my role fast enough? If it's the latter, I should remind you that you e only started asking this morning whilst I was sleeping and I still responded this morning after I woke up :lol:
You think our roles having the same immunity (just different fluff) is irrelevant?
So irrelevant that you didn't attempt talking about it many days later?
So irrelevant that we're wasting the day away doing nothing but listening to @Rene hide his insecurities?
You were the last one to claim a role, a role with an identical immunity, but somehow that struck you as vitally unimportant?
Um no, not unimportant, and I didn't avoid talking about it. I was only asked today and responded immediately. Also, my role has no NTA, so other than the patient 0 bit I had nothing to add to our knowledge. I think it's pretty apparent already that's what mafia have been doing. Also, I don't believe the security faction was pro-town which I've stated multiple times.

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#2445

Post by Rene »

@Clemens If I log out now and die because two mafiosos that haven't voted for me, vote for me while I'm gone, that wouldn't be really smart. Would it?

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#2446

Post by Clemens »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:14 pm
Interestingly, here you don't give the strain name that @Princess.ruxi and @valli both knew about.
People that were infected at night also got some extra fluff, if you remember:
joesatri wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:14 pm
Not feeling too well, i went to get checked.. and it looks like this is my last day alive. I will not survive the day.
Princess.ruxi wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:11 am
I have all the symptoms of an acute respiratory infection. I went to the infirmary to get checked and it seems I won't make it through the night just like JoeSatri.
They got checked because they felt awful. Or did you think a Computer Expert (joe) and Engineer (ruxi) somehow had the means to figure out what they were infected by - including strand name and all?
I recovered by morning, so I had no fluff-reason to get checked.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:14 pm
If you are immune to coronavirus because of your immune system, you wouldn't have traces of the infection in your room, do you realize that?
My body is immune, not my room.
That makes no sense, Heffie.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:14 pm
10) In post #1199
There might be some players who get converted into mafia instead of dying next day, and you might be one of them (e.g. it depends on your immune system)
I don't even know what you were trying to say here. We know people get infected, patient 0 has been the one infecting them. Are you admitting the ones with a bad immune system died whereas some of you get infected because of your immune systems? Sounds like you basically admitted being infected.
Post #1199 is not mine, nor is that statement in your quote mine.
And I never believed in the Zombie-Infection theory anyway.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:14 pm
Based on your previous posts "the fluff" seems to be part of your role description from Daemon; however, you then state your body fought off the infection based on being targeted on N1. If this is suddenly fluff from Daemon's N1 email, you're getting this entire story about your body experiencing the coronavirus and fighting it off quickly but others were informed they're not feeling so well, later that they're going to die....this doesn't ring true to me.
Fluff is important as it may hold clues or recognizable patterns for others with similar fluff.
The entire theme is a massive layer of fluff.
The rest in this quote doesn't actually make any sense - do you want to elaborate what the problem is?
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:14 pm
You're saying Corona kills people while again saying some are infected like the gardener, so which is it? Then you admit the temperature bit is related but remind us with another "bit of fluff" presumably back to your role description that one of your health-related downsides is a high temperature.
Until @valli came out with the strand names, we (I assume the Mafia might know) had no idea it even had a name.
But you're missing something; there are two strands.
Guess which one the Mafia are infected with (and why they're not dead yet) and which one they use to kill (so quickly).
Which also confirms the whole "patient 0 infected others" fluff.
@valli basically confirmed that piece of fluff for us.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:14 pm
What other convenient health-related downsides do you have? How does this make you innocent and make me guilty? Because I only have the original info in my role claim and a hazmat suit whereas you:
- have traces of infection in your room
- have a high temperature
You call it convenient, I call it inconvenient.
Precisely because it makes it a lot more difficult to prove my role if someone were to mount a full-fledged attack against me.
So you have NO side-effects whatsoever, yet you are immune to Mafia's killing method?
Now THAT is what I'd call CONVENIENT. :?
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:14 pm
That means both investigators would have found you guilty. How does that seem likely in a game where we have multiple investigators because there are different factions and diseases so we need to check all sources? You just look guilty on paper, according to the NTAs, your conflicting responses but yeah, I'm the guilty one?
And you know what's really funny? @valli's result would be "not infected" on me.
And you know what that would point at even further? Godfather role.
If every investigator had targeted @pelasgi (or me later), this would be an impossible role to defend.
Do you really think I'd intentionally put myself in such a bad spot? :lol:


Also, I've been waiting so long to post this part:
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:58 am
I go around in a hazmat suit all the time
Your fluff implies you wear that suit during the day.
If infections happen at night, do you sleep in your hazmat suit? :roll:
Meaning, you lay down in your bed with your contaminated suit, thus contaminating not only your bed but also your room? :D
My vote remains on you.

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#2447

Post by Noni »

Rene wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:46 pm
I sincerely hope this town burns to ashes.
You're starting to sound like one of the crazies faction :)

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#2448

Post by Clemens »

Rene wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:33 pm
@Clemens If I log out now and die because two mafiosos that haven't voted for me, vote for me while I'm gone, that wouldn't be really smart. Would it?
My vote isn't on you, so I can't change that.
I still plan on voting for you later, not now.
@MrWaffles said he'd vote for you later, yet his vote is still on you.

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#2449

Post by Rene »

Some theorycrafting

Code: Select all

Also regarding the security faction not being town. Really? This is still a discussion.

They blocked each other at N1. They got one another lynched at D2, because of D1 discussions. And another one of them got killed by neutrals or mafia at N2. Like... Is there any other direction left they weren't under fire from?

Code: Select all

You know the mafia numbers expansion makes more sense with the one's case than a possible fourth faction. It explains all of our quiet nights. 
The ones that are about to die speak up, the ones that have a mild illness are quiet about it as they join the mafia in the morning.
That unfortunately means there're way more than 2 of them alive.


The really important part:


And this is all really interesting. But, let's return to the fact that I've 5 votes on me and I'm 2 short of an instant lynch.
MrWaffles' vote is forced on my by phox, we went over it in the earlier posts today. Sander I believe, voted out of strife for fun, but I can't be sure? Maybe it's the perfect disguise.

If I log out now and 2 more people that haven't voted for me, vote for me, that means I die. I'm already two short of an instant lynch so I can not allow this to happen. That'd be the perfect opportunity for the mafia.

I've already warned @phox, @zero, @Bombaclaat in my reveal post. But your votes are still on me. Despite two of you being pretty much active throughout the way. Good work. Quality townsmanship.

I can call this day off right now, the question is, will you understand and support that decision if I do it now. Or are you fine with me getting randomly killed despite being an asset to the town.

You've one hour to convince me, either by starting with taking some votes off me. Or with arguments about how that half a day will be more important than losing a townie. You may begin.

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Noni
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:09 pm

#2450

Post by Noni »

These people who have the votes on you aren't even online. What do you expect us to do?

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