I hate super long posts but since i am the sole object of this one i will dedicate it my full time and effort and try to reply to every single point.behemoth wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 9:18 amAs promised, my post about Noni:)
I must begin with a little disclaimer though. It is possible that I have a major blind spot and my perspective on this is skewed. My suspicions started out with just an instinctive feeling, and based on that instinct, I gathered what facts I could. And while these facts definitely allow room for subjective interpretation, taken as a whole they at least raise a red flag for me.
First there is the matter of her role. So far the proportion of investigative roles seems to be favoring the town: Joesatri detected whether players left their rooms, Radwulf detected acute infection symptoms, Princess detected player activity at night, EC knew his twin was corrupted, Grifdon detects traces of infection in rooms, and Bombaclaat can possibly detect the crazies. Add to this Noni's claimed role that she can detect someone's visitors at night.
- This role is similar to Princess and Joe's, but they performed their roles using technology (access logs, webcam), whereas Noni's role involves her physically hanging around the rooms with a clipboard. If these three roles were meant to be complimentary, I think the methodology would have been consistent.
- Is it plausible that in the interest of maintaining balance, her NTA is accurate but it actually serves the mafia.. in which case this would be a mafia spy type of role.
- Regarding your target for N2 - i.e., me - can you share why you picked me? I was not a highly visible player, nor one of the controversial ones at that point, and it seems that you could have gotten a better return by choosing someone else.
Secondly there is the matter of pro town behavior, and as I've stated before, she does seem like the ultimate townie. Now if she's mafia, it's an even greater compliment, because it's that much harder to accomplish that feat by dissimulation. However, this is what mafia do for a living, and the good ones do it really well. This is where we get into the more subjective waters of my expose, but hear me out:
- Last but not least, I still have a problem with the fact that Sander's role declaration didn't ring any alarm bells for her. He was considered highly suspicious at that point, he was providing conflicting info about his role, and his role title was nearly identical to hers. The pro town thing to do would have been to call him out or at least raise the question - hey, does it make sense to have two of the same function (manager/administrator).
- She was the one who first exposed Moxy's lie/contradiction, which eventually led to his being killed. Now if she's a townie, this is great powers of observation to have on our side, chances are someone else would have caught that if she didn't, and it's unfortunate that Moxy turned out to be good after all. But the devil's advocate scenario might go something like this: Mafia is in a position to catch glaring inconsistencies from townies more easily, and they also stand to gain more by being the first ones to expose them. They can have such a person lynched without bringing undue suspicion on themselves when that person dies and turns out to be townie, and in the process they can build credibility as a helpful player even if the ending is not a happy one. Noni played this to perfection by pointing our the contradiction and letting it play its course. When the debate was at its hottest she kind of stayed out of it, shifted her focus to Trig at one point, and then towards the end of the day came back with a few comments against Moxy. She didn't call too much attention to herself or cross the line into the kind of vehemence that gets people asking questions.
- She was also one of the main instigators in Radwulf's lynch by egging players on for the votes that eventually sealed his fate. While she provided a logical and coherent explanation for that, the outcome still remains.
- She demonstrated pro town behavior in taking out the crazy faction, but this would also serve the mafia and therefore does not go a long way in giving her extra credibility points.
- She demonstrated pro town behavior by playing an important role in Emily's demise. I haven't looked closely at the interactions between them prior to Emilly's lie being exposed, so one thing I will go back to look at is whether she might fit the profile of the person who "betrayed" / hurt Emily's feelings.
@Noni - If I'm being paranoid and you do happen to actually be the ultimate townie, my hat off to you along with my apology, as I do find your style of play quite endearing:) However, there must be at least one very clever mafia in this game, and based on the above conjectures it may be you. These could be just little coincidences or disjointed facts, or they could be more than that - I haven't made up my own mind yet, so I'm curious if anyone else is seeing any red flags here or if it's just my hyperactive imagination.
About your instincts - can't really comment to that. They may usually be right on target which is great for you. Mine are sometimes right on target and sometimes way off. Usually i tend to follow my instincts right when they kick in as i am quite impulsive - so i can't really fault you for listening to your instincts. is it possible that you have a major blind spot in this case? YES:)
Regarding the roles- i'm not sure what is in that head of daemon's but i don't think he likes your standard good roles standard bad roles. i think MANY of them can be interpreted as being used by the good side or by the bad side. in this case we kind of have to make up our minds on whether we believe someone and go with it. Regarding the amount of investigation roles YES there are many but looks like we've not done the best job so far working together to get the scum lynched (not in the first couple of days anyway). IF EC would have come straight out and killed himself, Mary would still be alive. I have to admit she wasn't that suspicious to me through her play and it was only due to EC willing to die that i bought into his claims.IF Emily would not have made that role claim that totally contradicted my info from the mod i probably would not have voted for her either. SO--- while there are many investigative roles there is also confusion about at least 2 other factions and god knows what other NTAs on the mafia side which balances the game out. So i'm sure Daemon has thought about this stuff when he assigned the roles.
FYI there is a lurker role and a lookout role which BOTH have the same NTA one is pro town one is pro scum if we are now looking that closely into what could have gone through daemon's head when he came up with this marvellous game which literally taken over my life (I LOVE IT).
i picked you as my target as i think you are a very clever player (i don't know exactly when and during which old mafia game i drew that conclusion but it has stuck with me). now if i was mafia i would try to eliminate my strongest opponents during the night, which is why i checked radwuld on n1 and you on n2 as i thought you'd be the main targets of the mafia. I have applied this logic later on in the game and i will come back to this when the time is right. unfortunately on d1 i thought that i was getting info on people coming/going which is why i assumed radwulf didn't have any info about anyone. i cleared this up and explained it afterwards.
Regarding sander's role declaration - to me lab administrator is not the same thing as facilities manager. i consider a manager to be the head of something, the boss. administrator is not even a high up job at all in my eyes. i didn't think there was a strong contradiction. HAD i been mafia and such a good player as you keep saying (not that i mind:) DON'T YOU THINK I WOULD HAVE USED THIS OPPORTUNITY to try and lynch sander?! i did mention that some things may not add up from what he says but i defended him against lynching and remember stating that it seems like ha has an important role and we should keep him around.
i'm not going to defend myself against ''townie behaviour''. that is just ridiculous. imagine if i had to change the way i play just to seem less townie so my fellow townies don't think i'm too townie becoming suspicious of me. sorry but i can't:)
maybe it's from the way i post, but i post in a way that makes this game fun for me. long posts like these are not my favourite, super analytical posts are not like me either. so you can judge me on this all you want, still thinks it's ridiculous. have you used that word enough times in a paragraph to get this point across?!:)
the first day i was forced to vote zero (confirmed by phox who i don't know how she had such good intuition as zero is my all time nemesis from the old forum. the person who i can always get in a fight with even if we agree on something:). i wasn't going to let that affect my implication in the day's discussions. i would have voted for moxie if i could. he played badly. it stood out. of course i caught the lie it was pretty obvious. if i hadn't someone else would have.
Again the part of me not calling attention to myself is just completely wrong. I ALWAYS call attention to myself. even when i'm not saying anything important. i think if you look at the number of posts i have you will realise that there is no way i am trying to slip under any radar.
so there is my long post and i think and hope i've answered everything. in such a huge mafia game there is cleverness and there is also luck. There are soooooo many variables. What if Telvek and Adela weren't inactive? what if silvestru didn't quit? what if ec didn't decide to go all kamikaze and kill himself to get rid of mary? what if clemens was right and he was targeted on n1 - what are the odds of mafia targeting the one person immune to the infection?! anybody can react in any way to anything - so your interpretation of my behaviour is just that. i don't hold it against you and i'll take it as a compliment. i think you should though try to see it from my perspective too before you make your mind up that i am scum.
my fingers hurt. bye