Mafia 1 - The CROWN - GAME OVER!

Guilt is a numbers game.
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Noni
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#1101

Post by Noni »

Princess.ruxi wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:11 pm
I've never seen a vote blocker pro-town before.
Except for vigilante, voting is the only WEAPON, the only way for townies to lynch a mafia player.
Agreed. Also don't see how we, the town, can use him to our advantage.

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Emilly
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#1102

Post by Emilly »

phox wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:11 pm
@Emilly how do you know about mary and EC being drugged or hallucinating? Did I miss them saying anything about this?
@Clemens I wasn't arguing with you, just pointing some small things out, you're right we have the same standpoint anyways, regarding your question about who is on the top of my list it's the person I named first, @Sander. I already asked you once @Sander to convince us you are not Lynch worthy. Do you need a nudge? vote Sander for now.
No Phox, but this roles make me believe that different drugs are being tested on them.
@Mary is Pacient in a clinical trial
@EscapedConvict Volunteer twin TEST subject
That's why I would wait for Mary to be investigated this night if she is infected. We wasted a whole day on this story with EC and Mary. Until tomorrow we could deal with other suspects, and on my list the first are the 3 who killed radwulf and the inactive ones that Daemon will definitely deal with.

vote Sander

Clemens
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#1103

Post by Clemens »

Emilly wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:43 pm
@Clemens are you sure @Mary is mafia?
No, I'm not sure about either of them.
I'm bouncing ideas back and forth in the hopes of getting a better understanding.
I personally have no experience with any twin-roles, and am thus trying to wrap my head around what either of them have to gain from this.

On that note, you bring up a good point.
Emilly wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:33 pm
No Phox, but this roles make me believe that different drugs are being tested on them.
@Mary is Pacient in a clinical trial
@EscapedConvict Volunteer twin TEST subject
That's why I would wait for Mary to be investigated this night if she is infected. We wasted a whole day on this story with EC and Mary.
Even if the backstory is a certain amount of fluff, test subjects are for testing on.
It wouldn't be a stretch to assume that one (or both) of them have had infections and/or medications tested on them.


If I didn't miss any, current votes on last-minute Radwulf lyncher @Sander:
Gridfon, Emilly, phox
I'll add one as well to get things going. Vote Sander

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Noni
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#1104

Post by Noni »

I don't know if there is any relevance to this but in the original story daemon does mention that there is a strain of the virus left by one of the Chinese scientists in the hopes of giving crown a chance to discover a cure.
So maybe keeping the twins alive is important until later in the game?

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Mary
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#1105

Post by Mary »

EscapedConvict wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:06 pm
Misguided? Why would I do this if I were a townie? Makes no sense like someone else said.
I have to be convinced you're mafia and I am because it was confirned by the moderator and Daemon clearly said in his initial role email that you were currupted/taken over/infected (yes, he used the word that phox used) . I'm trying to avoid using it because I feel its very telling. Maybe its silly of me but don't want to break rules.
You just confirmed I am telling the truth about us being twins.
Anyone that believes I am telling the truth and that I am a townie has to believe that I am not lying about Daemon confirming that I play for the town and Mary the mafia.
You either believe that or you have to believe I am mafia but then you have to explain why do this whole thing.
You can't have both Mary, to claim I am a missguided toenie that is trying to kill 2 yownies (me and you) and yo not believe I tell the truth about the emails.
And thats when your scum logic breaks once again.
Anyways, I'd like to hear a role from MrWaffles too even though I have the feeling he's very eager to give it (Siderite actually beginning to make sense in his posts today when he said the same about MrWaffles in #1025 ). First one (#1022) cracked me up. This guy.
Unvote Escaped Convict (to kill off Mary) (temporarily)
Vote MrWaffles
If we can rally the townies, we can get two important things done today and possibly lynch 2 mafia and sacirfice one townie (myself) in return (2 if you consider princess who will die tonight too, which is a shame since she has been active and very coheremt thus far)
I stilk think the trade off is worth it since I do believe Mary CAN infect others. Only makes sense that way otherwise why would Daemon spun a story about testing vaccines against viruses to me and then tell she's been taken over + the fact that we now know people die after being infected. Its how mafia kills in this game.
If Mary the infected corrupted twin doesn't infect others then who does?


I don’t know why you would do this, hence me thinking it’s misguided – because it does not make sense. I think it’s more likely that Daemon has been purposefully ambiguous and you have built a theory that makes sense to you. I think these roles are confusing and to be honest I don’t quite understand what daemon was trying to do, but here we are.

I have surmised today that you must be the person the mod was referring to in my role description, because of the overlap in the information we have been given. However there is a significant difference. I was not told I was mafia, my only glimmer of hope was that I would find out who the counterpart player is and try and ensure no harm comes to either of us during the day. I have no influence over what happens at night and would guess that we’re both as vulnerable as any other player to NTAs.

Given that I am a patient in a clinical trial I will most likely exhibit symptoms of infection, as I’m being exposed to various doses of bugs and viruses. I am however in isolation and thus unable to leave my room, how I could infect anyone is beyond me. My NTA does not involve me leaving my room, I can send a database request via NewronComm and it would only come back as true/false.

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Heffie
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#1106

Post by Heffie »

My thoughts very briefly:

- there's a patient 0
- someone somewhere touched the virus and the two became one
- we have Mary who's meant to find EC to not accidentally lunch him and kill herself in the process (how does this make sense as a role for either a townie or a baddie? To what end?)
- we have EC who's Mary's twin,.claiming she's infected but he's not. So he knows about his twin being Mary from the start, he knows she's a baddie and has no NTA (again, someone here is lying because this story doesn't add up for anyone, not the town, not the mod but maybe mafia). Unless there's a role put there running clinical trials and needs test subjects to find a cure (thanks noni) none of this makes sense
- mrwaffled is no townie, but I suppose he isn't suspect number 1
- I believe behemoth posted once yesterday and that's why she's still in the game. That doesn't mean she hasn't had nighttime activity

As I'm unclear as to the Mary Vs EC thing and so we stop wasting time, I will vote: sander to get a role going otherwise we'll get into the trap of everyone voting for different people again and not getting anywhere. I'd like to have a role. I'd also like to know how you could've voted off the nurse, knowing you vote would clench the deal, in spite of evidence coming to light that radwulf was innocent.

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Telvek
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#1107

Post by Telvek »

Hello :)

I guess I am going to vote noni.
You're somehow suspiciously overactive and very aggressive in-game.

I am just curious about your identity, cause you collaborate with many players, at the same time there are some that disagree with your opinions.
I just think that your death would explain a lot :D
No hard feelings

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Heffie
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#1108

Post by Heffie »

Mary wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:02 am
EscapedConvict wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:06 pm

Given that I am a patient in a clinical trial I will most likely exhibit symptoms of infection, as I’m being exposed to various doses of bugs and viruses. I am however in isolation and thus unable to leave my room, how I could infect anyone is beyond me. My NTA does not involve me leaving my room, I can send a database request via NewronComm and it would only come back as true/false.
So, if I understand it correctly, if radwulf would've investigated you, you would've had a high temperature, but if "someone" checks where you've been at night or whether you've left your room, it would come back that you haven't. I guess this remains to be seen.

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Mary
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#1109

Post by Mary »

Clemens wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:29 pm
@EscapedConvict & @Mary
Killing a scum by sacrificing a townie sounds numerically sound.
But that's only the case if he's telling the full truth.
If he's guilty, this is a weird play - apart from killing Mary, the only gain I can see him getting from this is becoming more powerful by completing an objective of some sort.
If he's innocent and telling the truth, I would prefer lynching him to kill both over trusting him blindly and killing his victim.
Ideally, I'm not sure I want to kill either of them if he is telling the truth - since scum will not likely go after him at night if it means having to sacrifice one of their own.
Meanwhile, Mary has confirmed the whole "twin" thing, but denied the rest (which is a given). She has also shared that she has an NTA to find her significant other. This strikes me as important. What is the point of finding your twin? Is it to kill them? Is it to do something else with them? Is it to protect them because you die as well? And she claims it can only happen once, that sounds like horrible odds considering how many players there are. Also, what's the point of having twins from a gameplay-mechanic that have as only consequence that they both die together. That would be a horrible role to have on a single side (both innocent, both guilty) and would only make sense if they are on opposite sides and are trying to hide from one another. Or they are lying and have more secret abilities that they are not telling us about.
For the record, I can vote, I just haven't decided which way I personally want to go as this is technically my first day even when it isn't for everyone else.
21 players remain. 7 dead. 6 presumed innocent. 1 presumed guilty.
That's a pretty bad ratio so far.

@Clemens - So you point out the ambiguity of this whole thing, concede that there are unknowns (to me as well since EC and I have differing information and the mod is not forthcoming when you ask about someone else’s role or its impact on you), point out that the numbers are bad, but in the same post say it’s numerically sound to sacrifice a townie at this point. So your best case scenario is that you lose one townie and ?potentially get rid of one mafia, worst case scenario is you lose two townies. To me both of those don’t really favour the town.

Skuggi wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:31 pm
My vote is still on Mary. Frankly, I don't see why EscapedConvict could gain from lying. If we agree to go that way, it is possible to de-risk it further by lynching EscapedConvict himself, if he is lying for some reason. Unfortunately, if he is telling the truth it means losing one more townie - however, that's probably a price worth paying.

@Skuggi you acknowledge @Clemens’ assessment that the numbers do not look good, but then go on to say that with the scenarios currently laid out - losing one, potentially two townies is a price worth paying; all of this to try and get rid of someone who isn't infecting anyone. This is mindboggling maths.

I wanted to address some of this stuff today so it does not continue to eat into the game day.

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phox
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#1110

Post by phox »

Telvek wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:04 am
Hello :)

I guess I am going to vote noni.
You're somehow suspiciously overactive and very aggressive in-game.

I am just curious about your identity, cause you collaborate with many players, at the same time there are some that disagree with your opinions.
I just think that your death would explain a lot :D
No hard feelings
Lol? OK :lol: ... hello mister I-will-appear-out-of-the-blue-and-randomly-vote-for-someone-based-on-my-super-vague-reasons. Nice to have you rejoin the game.

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Mary
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#1111

Post by Mary »

As far as all the other stuff is concerned, I stand by my initial list of suspects in @blissie, @Siderite and @behemoth . But the other avenues explored so far are just as valuable at this point in order to arrive at some kind of consensus. If @blissie doesn't pipe up I'll happily put my vote where it can get us some answers tomorrow.

Haven’t made my mind up about MrWaffles yet but I’m inclined to think his NTA does not serve the town. Gotta acknowledge that it’s been particularly difficult in this game to unequivocally discern who exactly is evil vs good. Thanks for the brain benders @Daemon! :?

I’ve got to re-read the @Gridfon vs @Sander argument to see if there’s anything substantial there or another verbal fencing match that has proved so prevalent in this game, thanks to @EscapedConvict vs @radwulf and @joesatri vs @radwulf (note the common denominator).

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Mary
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#1112

Post by Mary »

Telvek wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:04 am
Hello :)

I guess I am going to vote noni.
You're somehow suspiciously overactive and very aggressive in-game.

I am just curious about your identity, cause you collaborate with many players, at the same time there are some that disagree with your opinions.
I just think that your death would explain a lot :D
No hard feelings
Ha! I was just about to go to bed but this really made me laugh :lol:
As opposed to being suspiciously under-active and without an opinion in-game, cause that's somehow better.....riiiight.

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Princess.ruxi
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#1113

Post by Princess.ruxi »

Emilly wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:04 pm
About @EscapedConvict and @Mary I noticed that they have identical roles: they are both volunteers to be tested. It seems too simple for one of them to be told that he has a twin brother who is a mafia. I rather think that they are both under the influence of some substances and have "hallucinations". It is my opinion, considering that we are in such a laboratory. To make sure @Mary is a mafia, I propose that she be investigated at night. I'm afraid they are both drugged and we're killing them in vain.
@Emilly this is a facility that's testing corona vaccines. No drugs. Actually it is very important that the subjects would not be under the influence of any drug in order to be able to report any adverse effect.

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Princess.ruxi
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#1114

Post by Princess.ruxi »

Mary wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:02 am
I think it’s more likely that Daemon has been purposefully ambiguous and you have built a theory that makes sense to you. I think these roles are confusing and to be honest I don’t quite understand what daemon was trying to do, but here we are.

I have surmised today that you must be the person the mod was referring to in my role description, because of the overlap in the information we have been given. However there is a significant difference. I was not told I was mafia, my only glimmer of hope was that I would find out who the counterpart player is and try and ensure no harm comes to either of us during the day. I have no influence over what happens at night and would guess that we’re both as vulnerable as any other player to NTAs.

Given that I am a patient in a clinical trial I will most likely exhibit symptoms of infection, as I’m being exposed to various doses of bugs and viruses. I am however in isolation and thus unable to leave my room, how I could infect anyone is beyond me. My NTA does not involve me leaving my room, I can send a database request via NewronComm and it would only come back as true/false.
Dear Mary, you admit you are a patient in a clinical trial and you are EC's twin.
EC claims that when one of you dies, the other one dies too.
Why would Daemon create a role where two townies would die at the same time??? It's too unbalanced. It's more likely that one is mafia and one is a townie. That, I have heard of.

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behemoth
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#1115

Post by behemoth »

Hey everyone! I owe everyone a big apology for my absence, which unfortunately couldn't be helped due to a personal issue I won't share coupled with some of the reasons mentioned earlier by other players (challenging work schedule and being in the middle of a house move). There are fewer things I dislike more in a mafia game than people signing up and not showing up. I certainly did not want to waste anyone's time and/or alter the game dynamic by my lack of participation in Day 2 - my absence was not intentional, and I hope it's not too late to redeem it.

I am almost done reading all of the posts I missed (which was no easy task). I will follow up soon with my thoughts and observations.

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Princess.ruxi
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#1116

Post by Princess.ruxi »

Telvek wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:04 am
Hello :)

I guess I am going to vote noni.
You're somehow suspiciously overactive and very aggressive in-game.

I am just curious about your identity, cause you collaborate with many players, at the same time there are some that disagree with your opinions.
I just think that your death would explain a lot :D
No hard feelings
Hi Telvek. You were high on the suspect list even before this. If you would have been active, you would know by now Noni's role, because she hinted to it in two or three different posts.

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Princess.ruxi
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#1117

Post by Princess.ruxi »

vote Sander
Let's hear a role claim, dear.

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valli
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#1118

Post by valli »

Concerning the twin story, as far as I know games like mafia the twins are usually an own faction and win in the end if they both survive. In most setups which I have seen one of them is mafia and one is townie and the know from the start about each other.

I see why you discuss this topic back and forward as it seems that @Daemon twisted around with the classical roles heavily.

To me it is astonishing that their stories are that much different, I would've expected that they know or don't know each other from the start.

As of now I have to trust EC story.

@Telvek you were already on my high suspicion list, you are moving up the ladder, especially if @behemoth does now spend more time with us.

To speed up the town investigation, as we already lost a good part of the day I will go and vote vote Sander for now.

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Noni
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#1119

Post by Noni »

unvote behemoth
Hope you're OK and good to see you're back.

@Telvek my role implies I somehow blend in with the scenery so I'm being overly active and aggressive and collaborating with all these other players to make up for that.
Plus this is the only way the game is fun for me. I'm not the silent analytical type so there we are.


To be honest I can't vote @Sander because by the end of the day I was convinced something was up with @radwulf. Not to mention it would have been such a risky move for a mafia to seal the deal on a townie lynch 1 min before the deadline. In my eyes only someone who didn't believe radwulf was townie would have cast that vote. He is getting quite a few votes already so I'm interested in his role declaration.

Mr waffles still remains my top suspect based on the info from Princess. I don't see how telling him who to block from voting and him accepting our target is going to prove anything other than we love to sabotage ourselves (we've already proven that from day1 actually:)

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#1120

Post by Sander »

I've explained many times why I voted for radwulf. Stop saying obvious. I was wrong. It's clear. So be it. Lynch me if you want, but be brave enough to say you don't want to listen to my why.

For those we don't read. I distrusted Gridfon, 10 min before the deadline he comes in and vouches for someone, off who he has evidence that he is innocent. He however refuses to share that intel. I stand by my decision that he wasted 3 days.

I'm suicidal and you will never have me alive. But before I take my own life. I will try to do at least one good deed for the town, as I have done none so far. And all I need for that, is one last bit of information. And that information lies with Clemens.

Clemens, in the previous night
1. Were you called away?
2. Did you have cleaning?

After Clemens responds, all give my thoughts and with my dead, you'll understand my "twisted, erratic, out of the box" thinking.

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#1121

Post by Sander »

And for those who think my suicide comment is weird.
Sander wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:29 pm
Heffie wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:39 pm
Guys, people don't go from normal temperatures to high
It’s not high. It’s higher than normal. If you mock the teeth and the clothes, fine. I can understand that. But a workout can elevate your temperature. Smashing someone his skull counts as a workout for me.

Vote Joesatri

If he turns out to be Mafia, my elevated temperature theory makes sense.

And Radwulf, I’m not desperate at all. If I’m desperate I’d suicide.

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behemoth
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#1122

Post by behemoth »

So it seems that the two main leads we have at this point are radwulf's lynch and the EC vs. Mary revelation.

Regarding the main lynch suspects being those who cast the deciding votes late in the day - i.e., Nanaa, Valli, Sander - I think it's also worth noting that Noni was one of the main instigators egging the other players on based on arguments that I find hard to buy coming from her.

Noni - you seem to have a very good read of the game and understanding of the mechanics. Your insistent argument about the cop/doctor super role is something that radwulf neither claimed nor implied, but it's something you kept pushing as indication of his guilt. As a townie, I would think someone with your level of play would have seen the tactical error in pushing for the town to kill the only claimed role at that point that had a confirmed ability (by Joesatri) to detect infection in a pandemic-themed game. So, if you're inclined to share, I would like to hear more about your role and whether your crusade against radwulf was because you genuinely believed he was mafia, or if it was just the shenanigans of your role-playing - i.e., "blending in with the scenery/being overly active and aggressive/collaborating with other players to make up for that"?

I also wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the earlier votes was a bad guy using the early momentum against radwulf to help instigate a bandwagon. This will be something I will go back and look at. But for now I am intrigued by Sanders and am curious to hear what Clemens has to say in response.

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Heffie
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#1123

Post by Heffie »

@Clemens can you please respond to @Sander so we can get the role out?

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behemoth
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#1124

Post by behemoth »

Now to the matter of EC vs. Mary
Princess.ruxi wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:37 pm
I've been thinking. I believe Mary's NTA has only one purpose as she said - to identify her twin in order to not Kill him and thus kill herself. I see no reason for EC to lie.
I think this is spot on. Mary's role declaration corroborates EC's claim and their roles make sense in the context of a clinical trial and the overall theme of the game - Mary being the experimental group that receives the variable being tested (i.e., the virus) and EC being the control group. As much as I hate to see a townie go, I would say that it's worth the sacrifice in exchange for getting rid of a baddie. I would also add her track record of having voted for all three players who were lynched… yes, I realize there's room for debate here and I can't say I blame anyone for voting against Moxy or Trig, but she is one of the players that cast a deciding vote against radwulf by turning the tide numbers wise. Her reasoning in doing so was radwulf's proposition to lynch joesatri, dismissing the logic behind it due to its low likelihood, but more importantly, disregarding the bigger picture of radwulf's role claim and what that could mean for the town.

Can anyone else other than the admins use that new feature to get us a quick vote count? I think our next move should be coordinated and we should go for the person who has the highest chance of being mafia/infected. And up to this point, evidence seems to point to Mary.

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valli
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#1125

Post by valli »

Required:
7 deadline lynch
11 instant lynch

Votes:
6 Sander: Gridfon, Emilly. phox, Clemens, Princess.ruxi, valli
3 Mary: Skuggi, EscapedConvict, zero
1 behemoth: Heffie
1 blissie: Marry
1 noni: Telvek
1 joesatri: Bombaclaat

Voting patterns:
Noni -> behemoth -> MrWaffles (without unvote behemoth) -> ?unvote behemoth -> That one confuses me
Heffie -> behemoth
EscapedConvict -> Mary -> EscapedConvict -> No vote -> Mary
Emilly -> bebemoth -> Sander
Bombaclaat -> joesatri
Gridfon -> Sander
Skuggi -> Mary
Mary -> blissie
Princess.ruxi -> MrWaffles -> No vote -> Sander
phox -> MrWaffles -> No vote -> Sander
zero -> Mary
Clemens -> Sander
Telvek -> noni
valli -> Sander

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Mary
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#1126

Post by Mary »

behemoth wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:43 am
Now to the matter of EC vs. Mary
Princess.ruxi wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:37 pm
I've been thinking. I believe Mary's NTA has only one purpose as she said - to identify her twin in order to not Kill him and thus kill herself. I see no reason for EC to lie.
I think this is spot on. Mary's role declaration corroborates EC's claim and their roles make sense in the context of a clinical trial and the overall theme of the game - Mary being the experimental group that receives the variable being tested (i.e., the virus) and EC being the control group. As much as I hate to see a townie go, I would say that it's worth the sacrifice in exchange for getting rid of a baddie. I would also add her track record of having voted for all three players who were lynched… yes, I realize there's room for debate here and I can't say I blame anyone for voting against Moxy or Trig, but she is one of the players that cast a deciding vote against radwulf by turning the tide numbers wise. Her reasoning in doing so was radwulf's proposition to lynch joesatri, dismissing the logic behind it due to its low likelihood, but more importantly, disregarding the bigger picture of radwulf's role claim and what that could mean for the town.

Can anyone else other than the admins use that new feature to get us a quick vote count? I think our next move should be coordinated and we should go for the person who has the highest chance of being mafia/infected. And up to this point, evidence seems to point to Mary.

Daemon's story has already explained that there are different strains of the virus, anything administered in a clinical trial would be a much lower dose since the point of a trial isn't to kill subjects, it's to find suitable therapies. I'm also in isolation (as part of my role description) so I can't actually infect anyone.

Re your reasoning about my voting: yes, it's very unfortunate that the 3 people lynched so far were town, but I justified each vote, including the one for radwulf. I said initially that his role sounded legit since it fit so well with the theme of the game, but then his actions were very suspicious and did not stack up! A player having the ability to come with a credible role (especially a player as experienced as radwulf) isn't exonorating, in the end his suspicious game play outweighed that. It's impossible to know who to trust in this game but I trusted Joe, to radwulf's detriment. I went with the logic that seemed most sound at the time and Joe has proved himself trustworthy, albeit in his death.

You seem to forget that 3 people voted much much later in the day to seal radwulf's fate. Forget or choose to ignore that is. Here's a reminder of the other people who voted for radwulf:

Silvextru, blissie, Rene, EC, nanna, valli and sander.

Discount Silvextru and that still leaves 6 people, are you so sure there's a low chance any of them are mafia? You'd only know that if you had insight into who the mafia is, you know, if you were one of them.

It took 9 votes and despite what you're trying to suggest, no, I did not single-handedly 'turn the tide'.

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#1127

Post by MrWaffles »

EscapedConvict wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:59 pm
Daemon did mention in the email that if wither one of us is ikilled (which could mean knife/ hammer killed by the psycho?) or put in 0croy-stasis (lynched) the other one will follow.
But he disnt say if I get infected Mary dies too. (which is the 3rd known way of killing in this game)
Hi @EscapedConvict,

Sorry if I am digging too deep into mechanics you don't know about, but how can Mary go into cryofreeze if you go into cryofreeze? I thought the story said that cryofreeze is not the same as death ("community was one of scholars, not of murderers"). If we lynch you, we put you in a freezer which we will later thaw you out from (I guess after the game ends). As we didn't put Mary in the freezer, does she just actually die because her heart stops beating without being in a freezer?

Regardless of the above, I am still happy to freeze you, because if Mary is evil, you will be cryofrozen (and maybe alive at game end or whatever), while she will die. I am still very unhappy with lynching Mary first just in case you are lying, because that costs us (innocent) Mary to kill (guilty) EscapedConvict.

However, I can switch my vote to her if someone can convince me that the link you share with her is now broken and my strategy will kill (innocent) EscapedConvict without killing (guilty) Mary. Given all the things that have to be proven (or at least supported) for me to switch my vote, I feel EscapedConvict would have an easier time just having people vote for himself instead. We can still lynch Mary after EscapedConvict, especially if his role is not revealed as Infected after he gets frozen.

-MrWaffles

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#1128

Post by MrWaffles »

valli wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:14 am
Required:
7 deadline lynch
11 instant lynch

Votes:
6 Sander: Gridfon, Emilly. phox, Clemens, Princess.ruxi, valli
3 Mary: Skuggi, EscapedConvict, zero
1 behemoth: Heffie
1 blissie: Marry
1 noni: Telvek
1 joesatri: Bombaclaat

Voting patterns:
Noni -> behemoth -> MrWaffles (without unvote behemoth) -> ?unvote behemoth -> That one confuses me
Heffie -> behemoth
EscapedConvict -> Mary -> EscapedConvict -> No vote -> Mary
Emilly -> bebemoth -> Sander
Bombaclaat -> joesatri
Gridfon -> Sander
Skuggi -> Mary
Mary -> blissie
Princess.ruxi -> MrWaffles -> No vote -> Sander
phox -> MrWaffles -> No vote -> Sander
zero -> Mary
Clemens -> Sander
Telvek -> noni
valli -> Sander
Hi @valli,

I have seven on Sander as Heffie voted Sander in post #1106. Still checking the rest.

-MrWaffles

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#1129

Post by Clemens »

Only just got around to checking all of the new posts.
Heffie wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:31 am
@Clemens can you please respond to @Sander so we can get the role out?
Sander wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:13 am
I will try to do at least one good deed for the town, as I have done none so far. And all I need for that, is one last bit of information. And that information lies with Clemens.

Clemens, in the previous night
1. Were you called away?
2. Did you have cleaning?

After Clemens responds, all give my thoughts and with my dead, you'll understand my "twisted, erratic, out of the box" thinking.
In the previous night, N3:
1. No.
2. Not that I am aware of.

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#1130

Post by MrWaffles »

@valli Besides Heffie's vote, the final vote counts are correct. I cannot track voting patterns using my system.

I think a few people forgot to mention unvote when they changed their votes. I have only been counting one vote / unvote per post, so I cannot comment on how many people have done this. However, I believe Heffie did not unvote behemoth before voting Sander, and I am not sure either about Noni's voting.

Edit: "cannot track voting patterns easily." I can post a dump of what I have recorded if anyone would like to help me extract patterns from it.

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#1131

Post by Clemens »

Mary wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:13 am
point out that the numbers are bad, but in the same post say it’s numerically sound to sacrifice a townie at this point. So your best case scenario is that you lose one townie and ?potentially get rid of one mafia, worst case scenario is you lose two townies.
Killing one guilty by sacrificing an innocent is a good ratio, numerically speaking.
Ideally killing one guilty without sacrificing anyone would be our goal.
But killing two innocents because of a misplay would be horrendous.
You'll notice how I haven't voted on either of you and instead have been trying to figure out the concept first.
One of you is lying or misguided.
Noni wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:01 am
To be honest I can't vote @Sander because by the end of the day I was convinced something was up with @radwulf.
Can you elaborate? Do you mean you cannot vote for Sander?

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#1132

Post by phox »

Why does @Sander keep mentioning suicide? back up people, we need more Intel we can't just Lynch someone like that,with a snap. I will unvote him as I want to hear more about this suicide thing,before we decide he goes. Also the theory that a mafia wouldn't kill rad in the last minute to avoid self incrimination does make a bit of sense
Unvote Sander @Sander what is all this about your suicide?elaborate.

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#1133

Post by Noni »

@behemoth
To be honest I initially thought the dispute between rad ans ec was counterproductive because it seemed more personal rather than game related. I made up my mind early on that they are probably both townies, very active and just too focused on the personal dispute rather than the other players. Then radwulf started taking a step back from ec which I thought was helpful for the town in spite of moxys death which was inevitable due to his numerous mistakes.
At this point I think Joe was starting to become in my eyes one of the least suspicious players after his vote block which I still think can only be a Mafia ability.
The fact that radwulf refused to include any other theories in his assumptions ultimately made him more suspicious in my eyes. I thought he was either a crazy cop or was lying about something.

My NTA involves being able to hang around somebody's door at night to see if anything of interest is going on.
On the first night I checked radwulf. He didn't get visited by anyone.
I incorrectly assumed on day one that I would receive info regarding the person leaving the room too which is why I assumed radwulf didn't have any info on day one. After that I realised that in fact I only receive info about visitors, not any people leaving their room.
On night 2 I hung around your room, behemoth. Also nobody visited you.
So my NTA isn't very powerful as it barely proves anything. If I would select the same target as the Mafia, it would be actually very very useful.
Hope this clears things up behemoth in regards to my logic in the game.
To be perfectly honest in real life as well as in the game I'm not much of a strategist and I tend to go with the flow, basing my decisions more on emotion rather than ration.

Also I'll have to go back and see if I unvoted and voted in the correct order.
To make things clear about how I voted : I opened the day with a vote on behemoth as a nudge and meant to remove it after she posted and vote Mr waffles based on the revelations from Princess.

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#1134

Post by Princess.ruxi »

phox wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:55 am
Why does @Sander keep mentioning suicide? back up people, we need more Intel we can't just Lynch someone like that,with a snap. I will unvote him as I want to hear more about this suicide thing,before we decide he goes. Also the theory that a mafia wouldn't kill rad in the last minute to avoid self incrimination does make a bit of sense
Unvote Sander @Sander what is all this about your suicide?elaborate.
What I got from Sander is that he is a suicidal type role that will commit suicide if he will be getting close to be lynched. Before he dies he is willing? / can? / has an ability? to help the town. A sort of goodbye present :lol:

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#1135

Post by Noni »

Clemens wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:53 am
Mary wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:13 am
point out that the numbers are bad, but in the same post say it’s numerically sound to sacrifice a townie at this point. So your best case scenario is that you lose one townie and ?potentially get rid of one mafia, worst case scenario is you lose two townies.
Killing one guilty by sacrificing an innocent is a good ratio, numerically speaking.
Ideally killing one guilty without sacrificing anyone would be our goal.
But killing two innocents because of a misplay would be horrendous.
You'll notice how I haven't voted on either of you and instead have been trying to figure out the concept first.
One of you is lying or misguided.
Noni wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:01 am
To be honest I can't vote @Sander because by the end of the day I was convinced something was up with @radwulf.
Can you elaborate? Do you mean you cannot vote for Sander?

To clarify, today is the first day I can actually vote properly!
There are no restrictions on how I can vote.
I meant I won't vote for sander.

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#1136

Post by Clemens »

phox wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:55 am
Also the theory that a mafia wouldn't kill rad in the last minute to avoid self incrimination does make a bit of sense
That's a question of the player's plan.
Some Mafia get greedy and want that extra lynch at the risk of being on the chopping block the next day.
While others avoid any risky late votes to remain unseen for a while longer.

With so many players, I'd wager that there are going to be both kinds of players around.

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#1137

Post by Sander »

So Clemens came forth. That means, I have no idea how to prove, who I am or what I really do. I do expect that if Gridfon really had something that could exonerate Radwulf, he should be able to do the same for me. Assuming he targeted me.

I'm the facility manager. Due to the limited supplies, I only approve of our supply usage when I find it absolutely necessary. I don't have high regards about myself, so I can't target myself. What is lost, is lost, and I show no pity. What can't be helped, must be left alone.

I always assumed I had the doctor role in this game. That the limited supplies referred to our medicines. And that I only distribute them when it's life or dead. That would have also explained why I can't target myself.

My target in N2 was Joe and in N3 it was Clemens. I don't get any intel back.

Because Joe said he was called away and had cleaning, I was hoping that - Clemens got that msg as well - so that that would be my intel.
Called away means in need for supplies.
Or, that the cleaning was because they needed a new safe environment.
(Keep in mind, I thought I was the doctor)

Since Joe had food poisoning the night I targeted him and that still happened, that confirmed my idea of my doctor role. Cause the food poisoning doesn't kill, so I wouldn't hand out our precious supplies (meds). This is also why I thought that the fever was not the cause of death. Hence why I also believe that Joe got targeted in N1 and Princess in N2. If he was targeted in N1 and I checked his supplies in N2, the virus would be too advanced for the meds to help. So I wouldn't give them.

I'm sorry for my misplaying. In the end, I did more harm than good.
I'll scalpel my wrists before the day ends. So you can pressure other people as you please. I'm a man of a my word, and hard to convince once my mind has been made up. Because Mind uses his specific methods to reveal the newest hacks and cheats. Methods uncommon to the ordinary folk, yet successful. Mind is beyond clans or similar bindings. He is the hero Newerth deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight. He's the element of Nocturne, the RaGe of Demonic Monsters, White Wolves, once a Sun barely an Earth he is EvOlved but most of all, he remains an element of Nocturne.

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#1138

Post by Gridfon »

It's time for me to declare my role. I am convinced I have to do it before the night anyway, and I prefer to be able to discuss all of this before deciding on the first instant lynch target for today.

I am a Researcher. I actually hinted at this in my first post of this game:
Gridfon wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:02 pm
Good morning, fellow researchers.
Every night, I visit someone's room to collect air samples. By analyzing these samples, I can tell whether any infected player has been in my target's room since the last decontamination (this includes the host of the room themselves).

Let me explain this to you. If I check someone and find no traces of infection in their room, I know they are certainly not infected. (They could still belong to an evil 3rd party faction). But note that the only decontamination we had this far happened in the initial story (presumably before Night 1). So if I check someone and do find traces on infection, my result is inconclusive. An innocent player could have traces of infection in their room just because they were visited by a mafia player on one of the previous nights. So the more days pass since the last decontamination, the less effective is my NTA.

My NTA mostly serves to exonerate players, not implicate them. The best strategy is to pick the hyper-active veterans who are turning the game upside down, and hopefully confirm that they do not belong to the infected faction. That's still somewhat inconclusive (they might be psycho, or another type of 3rd faction). But it might help a great deal if we knew that the walls-of-text written by someone like Clemens are not designed to confuse, cause chaos, and ultimately point our attention away from his mafia buddies.

N1: I checked Stringer. He was clear.
N2: I checked Radwulf. He was clear.
N3: I checked Clemens. I found traces of infection in his room.


Night 1:
To the best of my knowledge, the people here who are from Newerth (besides me and Daemon) are: Moxy, Nanaa, Rene, Skuggi, Stringer, Telvek, Trigardon, Valli (and now also Clemens). I did not know anyone else before this game. From the starting Newerth-affiliated crew, Stringer stands out as the intellectual powerhouse. So I checked him. Even though I believe he mentioned that he had no prior experience of forum mafia, you could see he started strong on Day 1.

Night 2:
I quickly understood during Day 1 that Radwulf is considered to be THE veteran around here, and he also immediately drew a lot of attacks (especially from EC, who did not seem to let it go). It was clear that Radwulf's affiliation would be one of the main points of contention during Day 2. So I checked him prior to Day 2.

Night 3:
Clemens joined the game, replacing Pelasgi. Pelasgi was a very inactive and hence obscure character that was unlikely to draw the attention of infected people in the previous two nights. Whereas Clemens would certainly turn everything upside down upon joining. So checking him was the way to go.

P.S. In my first post each day, the first name I mentioned was the one that I investigated. Just a little useless penchant of mine. On Day 1, I voted against Stringer ("to wake him up") to have a reason to bring up his name. On Day 2, the introduction to my first post calls the dead Stringer "this night's victim" just so I can bring up Radwulf as the first name. On Day 3, the introduction to my first post calls Joesatri "the fellow townie who told us he was dying ahead of time" just so I can bring up Clemens as the first name.

-----------

Even though I told that valli, Nanaa and Sander are the obvious suspects for having lynched Radwulf yesterday, I will now show that Clemens was actually the main target I pursued over the past 24h.
Gridfon wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:24 pm
@Clemens: you just transformed from a cocooned Pelasgi form into the true Clemens form... So now that you're in full control of yourself: do you want to tell us anything you quietly observed over the past two days?
I hoped he would tell he was targeted by one of the disruptive NTAs this night, and is not feeling well. That would remove a great deal of my suspicion, and I could decide to omit revealing my role today. He did not indicate anything like that. But he had no reason to, because my question was so vague (on purpose). So I decided I would go back and make a list of all affected people to see, whether there's an empty slot that could fit Clemens in for an alibi.
Gridfon wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:17 am
These are the disruptive NTAs we're experiencing. Out of them 3 are likely mafia-aligned, and the 4th is still quite mysterious. Anyone wants to shed some light on the question marks?

"I am rather unwell and cannot vote today" crowd:
Day 1: joesatri (post #31)
Day 2: Noni (post #584)
Day 3: ?

"I am going to die next morning" crowd:
Day 1: ---
Day 2: joesatri (#642)
Day 3: Princess.ruxi (post #1014)

"I had a visitor and I'm compelled to vote for ... our discussion was inspired and eye-opening and I simply cannot vote for anyone else, anything else or abstain" crowd:
Day 1: Noni against zero (post #716)
Day 2: valli against Trigardon (posts #665 and #1021)
Day 3: Bombaclaat against josatri (post #995)

"I had mandatory cleaning previous night" crowd:
Day 1: ?
Day 2: joesatri (#642)
Day 3: ?
Clemens might have been able to claim any of the "?" slots as a valid excuse for an infected player's presence in his room. So ideally I wanted to exclude all of these possibilities prior to confronting Clemens.

Coincidentally, MrWaffles came out as the owner of the NTA causing "I am rather unwell and cannot vote today", and Sanders confirmed the ownership of Day 3 slot. So I focused on extracting any information regarding the NTA causing "I had mandatory cleaning previous night" (in #1070 and #1085). I found some comfort in having Clemens around.
Gridfon wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:13 pm
The context matters. You're trying to conveniently swipe it under your floor rag.
Don't touch it!... Nanaa told us it could be infected.
At some point there was a convenient moment to press him on any knowledge about mandatory cleaning directly:
Gridfon wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:00 pm
It could just be possible that someone like Behemoth or Telvek is in charge of cleaning, and they simply forgot to do that on two of the nights. But that's just a wild guess, based on no evidence... Or may be inactives like them were targeted by the mandatory cleaning, and they are not here to report that to us...

@Clemens: What do you think about mandatory cleaning?
Unfortunately, we could not learn new information about mandatory cleaning and I do not want to wait much longer.

------------

So what could be the possible reasons of infected people trespassing through Clemens' room?
1. Clemens is infected, meaning he belongs to mafia.
2. "Mandatory cleaning" is an NTA in possession of the mafia team, and Clemens was targeted by it on Night 1 or Night 3.
3. Clemens was infected this night. The next night he will learn that he is gravely ill, and the next day will be his last among us. (But in #1085 I quoted joesatri, who insisted this is not how the infection works).
4. Clemens was targeted by a novel disruptive NTA that is not known by the town yet, and Clemens has not shared that with us yet.
5. The infected/mafia team has some non-disruptive (so: likely investigative) NTA and they targeted Clemens at some point since the start of the game.

I did confirm with the mod (prior to submitting Clemens as my target) that Clemens (and any other player replacement) receives full information about prior days (including NTAs that were used by Pelasgi, and NTAs experienced by Pelasgi, and all prior night-time communication done by Pelasgi, and so on).

@Clemens: Could you enlighten us?

-----------

My role opens up new ways to understand the meaning of "mandatory cleaning", but none of them clicked with me yet. It is possible that mandatory cleaning is an ability designed to erase traces of infection from someone's room.
1. Mafia might be in control of the mandatory cleaning. But why? I'm not buying it yet. I don't understand why an infected person would attempt such cleaning, and why they would be able to succeed in the first place (unless they do the cleaning in a hazard suit that does not expel any of the used CO2?..)
2. It could be a town NTA that helps me, by resetting a single room to a post-decontamination state of cleanliness. But this is somewhat unlikely, because only my NTA seems to benefit from such cleaning (as far as we know this far).

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#1139

Post by phox »

Princess.ruxi wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:03 am
phox wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:55 am
Why does @Sander keep mentioning suicide? back up people, we need more Intel we can't just Lynch someone like that,with a snap. I will unvote him as I want to hear more about this suicide thing,before we decide he goes. Also the theory that a mafia wouldn't kill rad in the last minute to avoid self incrimination does make a bit of sense
Unvote Sander @Sander what is all this about your suicide?elaborate.
What I got from Sander is that he is a suicidal type role that will commit suicide if he will be getting close to be lynched. Before he dies he is willing? / can? / has an ability? to help the town. A sort of goodbye present :lol:
How would he be able to help the town? and what kind of useless ability is it to kill yourself just before you get lynched, what can you possibly stand to gain from a suicide? @Sander tik-tok.

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#1140

Post by phox »

Wait sorry I didn't see your messages above. I hate using my phone for this.

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#1141

Post by Noni »

phox wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:36 am
Princess.ruxi wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:03 am
phox wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:55 am
Why does @Sander keep mentioning suicide? back up people, we need more Intel we can't just Lynch someone like that,with a snap. I will unvote him as I want to hear more about this suicide thing,before we decide he goes. Also the theory that a mafia wouldn't kill rad in the last minute to avoid self incrimination does make a bit of sense
Unvote Sander @Sander what is all this about your suicide?elaborate.
What I got from Sander is that he is a suicidal type role that will commit suicide if he will be getting close to be lynched. Before he dies he is willing? / can? / has an ability? to help the town. A sort of goodbye present :lol:
How would he be able to help the town? and what kind of useless ability is it to kill yourself just before you get lynched, what can you possibly stand to gain from a suicide? @Sander tik-tok.
See post 1137

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#1142

Post by Noni »

phox wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:40 am
Wait sorry I didn't see your messages above. I hate using my phone for this.
Same :)))

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#1143

Post by Siderite »

Princess.ruxi wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:03 am
phox wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:55 am
Why does @Sander keep mentioning suicide? back up people, we need more Intel we can't just Lynch someone like that,with a snap. I will unvote him as I want to hear more about this suicide thing,before we decide he goes. Also the theory that a mafia wouldn't kill rad in the last minute to avoid self incrimination does make a bit of sense
Unvote Sander @Sander what is all this about your suicide?elaborate.
What I got from Sander is that he is a suicidal type role that will commit suicide if he will be getting close to be lynched. Before he dies he is willing? / can? / has an ability? to help the town. A sort of goodbye present :lol:
Oh, Sander can do a service to the town if killed? Unvote Sander.

If Sander can commit suicide and do a last service to the town before he is lynched it is obvious that no action towards him makes any difference. If we put him in cryo we lose a townie but we get a "service". Result is zero. If we leave him be, the result is still zero. The only logical use for his role is to serve as a trap for a murderous Mafia, but that would hardly happen now. Daemon places a lot of traps in this game, it seems. Are you sure you want to rush to more judgement already? Or have you left yourself in your warpath, lost your balance on a tightrope, lost your mind tryin' to get it back

vote No lynch

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#1144

Post by Noni »

I need to re read @Sander post. I don't really understand this suicide thing and also not sure I understood his doctor role properly. Headache!

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#1145

Post by Siderite »

Gridfon wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:33 am
It's time for me to declare my role. I am convinced I have to do it before the night anyway, and I prefer to be able to discuss all of this before deciding on the first instant lynch target for today.

I am a Researcher. I actually hinted at this in my first post of this game:
Gridfon wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:02 pm
Good morning, fellow researchers.
Every night, I visit someone's room to collect air samples. By analyzing these samples, I can tell whether any infected player has been in my target's room since the last decontamination (this includes the host of the room themselves).
I am sure we all want a "Researcher" going in our rooms at night, looking for "infection". I find it suspicious that you can determine the presence of an infected person in a room but you can't tell who is infected (considering they are sleeping in the room you visit, presumably). However, if something infection related does happen to Clemens, it does not prove anything, considering you went into his room to ascertain that, so you might just as well infected him yourself. Most everything is deception, as life rolls on. There are few exceptions, I doubt you are the one.

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#1146

Post by phox »

Yeah, everyone is speaking in puzzles today. Maybe I am just unable to follow properly, what is this "Newerth" @Gridfon and how do you know which players are part of it?

@Sander why are you committing suicide and are you trying to send us a message or clues with those distinct capital letters you scattered around your post?

" He is the hero Newerth deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight. He's the element of Nocturne, the RaGe of Demonic Monsters, White Wolves, once a Sun barely an Earth he is EvOlved but most of all, he remains an element of Nocturne."

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#1147

Post by valli »

unvote Sander

after the very enlighting post I am curious now abou clemens statement.

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#1148

Post by Sander »

Just to clear out. My suicide has nothing to do with my role. It's game irrelevant in that way.

You'll never have me alive, is just one of archetypes. I checked with Daemon, and I can resign from the game, and make it look like a suicide. Which would fit my real life personality. Nothing game wise.

I wish to not yet answer to your question regarding my last sentence. I'm waiting to see who figures it out.

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#1149

Post by Noni »

Sander wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:29 am
So Clemens came forth. That means, I have no idea how to prove, who I am or what I really do. I do expect that if Gridfon really had something that could exonerate Radwulf, he should be able to do the same for me. Assuming he targeted me.

I'm the facility manager. Due to the limited supplies, I only approve of our supply usage when I find it absolutely necessary. I don't have high regards about myself, so I can't target myself. What is lost, is lost, and I show no pity. What can't be helped, must be left alone.

I always assumed I had the doctor role in this game. That the limited supplies referred to our medicines. And that I only distribute them when it's life or dead. That would have also explained why I can't target myself.

My target in N2 was Joe and in N3 it was Clemens. I don't get any intel back.

Because Joe said he was called away and had cleaning, I was hoping that - Clemens got that msg as well - so that that would be my intel.
Called away means in need for supplies.
Or, that the cleaning was because they needed a new safe environment.
(Keep in mind, I thought I was the doctor)

Since Joe had food poisoning the night I targeted him and that still happened, that confirmed my idea of my doctor role. Cause the food poisoning doesn't kill, so I wouldn't hand out our precious supplies (meds). This is also why I thought that the fever was not the cause of death. Hence why I also believe that Joe got targeted in N1 and Princess in N2. If he was targeted in N1 and I checked his supplies in N2, the virus would be too advanced for the meds to help. So I wouldn't give them.

I'm sorry for my misplaying. In the end, I did more harm than good.
I'll scalpel my wrists before the day ends. So you can pressure other people as you please. I'm a man of a my word, and hard to convince once my mind has been made up. Because Mind uses his specific methods to reveal the newest hacks and cheats. Methods uncommon to the ordinary folk, yet successful. Mind is beyond clans or similar bindings. He is the hero Newerth deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight. He's the element of Nocturne, the RaGe of Demonic Monsters, White Wolves, once a Sun barely an Earth he is EvOlved but most of all, he remains an element of Nocturne.
Are you actually slitting your wrists?! Is this mandatory? Why?

Sander
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:50 pm

#1150

Post by Sander »

Noni wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:12 am
Are you actually slitting your wrists?! Is this mandatory? Why?
It's not mandatory. I preferably take my life into my own hands, then in yours.

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