Mafia 1 - The CROWN - GAME OVER!

[EscapedConvict]

<snip>

This person is: @Mary (see my previous posts during D1 and D2 when I said she is not to be trusted)

She is my evil (infected) twin and per the moderator's design when one of us dies the other dies too.
But she is mafia and I am a townie.(yes. I confirmed this with Daemon)

<snip>

Is any of this reflected in your earlier daytime interactions or posts? Did your posts contain any traces of you suspecting Mary, any hints about twins, or any other tangential hints whatsoever?

Basically, what I'm trying to figure out is: how do I convince myself that this is not just a plan that was produced as a result of night-time brainstorming done by some mafia members just hours ago?

Absolutely they did. I will find those posts and quote them next. I see its vital I do so.

[EscapedConvict]

@EscapedConvict, that's a massive post and a big accusation. If true, it's a very good lead! Even so, I have a few questions.

I've never seen a role like this before. So can you share what your role and abilities are?

I also was not sure what her role did or if she had any NTAs until now.

Can you tell us what Mary's role and NTA is?

Do you have any further proof that Mary is mafia, and/or Patient 0?

Have you know Mary was your twin and was infected from the beginning or did you learn so later?

Your post is in some ways this is similar to Joesatri's claim yesterday. Basically, we can believe you and lynch Mary and if you're telling the truth you'll die as well. If you're lying, we would lynch Mary, find out she's a townie and then lynch you. Either way both of you die, so it's a very strange strategy to play if you're lying. My worry is if you are mafia, and it is very important to lynch one more townie - perhaps to trigger some mafia ability to end the day early.

If we were to lynch you, @EscapedConvict, would that yield the same result? If you are telling the truth, your infected twin should die instantly, right? Do you know for sure that she has no way of escaping if you are eliminated?

Regardless, I think we need a response and a role claim from @Mary, so:

vote Mary

I am trying not to use words that the moderator used in his role email to me but he did say my twin was "taken over" (corrupted if you will. He used a better term that I will not quote so I don't break any rules)

And then in a subsequent email to Daemon I asked for him to confirm I played for the town and and Mary played for the mafia. And he did.

About her abilities I do not know anything for sure since I was told by Daemon that I cannot ask details about someone else's role only about my own.
I just know she is infected.

As far as lynching me first, yes, to my understanding it would yield the same result. Good point.

Unvote Mary

Vote Escaped Convict to kill Mary

Me doing this should take even more suspicion of off me I assume.

[Mary]

Also sorry for lynching radwulf, our nurse, but in all honesty at least his sacrifice brings clarity to the game (to me, at least, since I was so set against him)
Now to the important bit.
I didn't share this info yet because I wanted us to have some history and context of this person's play to be able to go back and judge as to what allegiances she might have and who she went against.
We now have 2 full game days of talks and enough on her for me to come forward and expose her.
I also was not sure what her role did or if she had any NTAs until now.
I'm doing this because now I believe is the right time since I think she is patient zero and is the one infecting people.
Also, revealing this now, on my own initiative without being pressed by votes a role claim request (I expect some people to go that route because of my previous attacks on radwulf, as justified as they were) gives more credibility to what O have to say, I think.
This person is: @Mary (see my previous posts during D1 and D2 when I said she is not to be trusted)
She is my evil (infected) twin and per the moderator's design when one of us dies the other dies too.
But she is mafia and I am a townie.(yes. I confirmed this with Daemon)
So I pressume she is THE ONE infecting people. Especially since she knows Joesatri and Noni in real life (I think they are related? or at least good friends)
Makes sense that she would target them first.
Having said that I will cast my vote, knowing full well that if she is lynched I die as well.
I think this sacrifice is worth it at this point in the game if we are able to stop the infections.
Even though there is a possibility that there are others that she migjt have infected and will not die but just join her? (i.e. Noni? plus whomever she targeted last night)
Waiting for others to weigh in. Let the brainstorming begin.
Vote: Mary

Morning all, first off what a horrible way for joe to die. Silver lining, at least there are no deaths and we have one less mafia to worry about (Silvextru).

Unfortunate that radwulf turned out to be town but I have to say his vehement conviction that joe had come up with a very elaborate and unrealistic ploy made him incredibly suspicious. As I said before, I thought things were simpler than that and believed joe’s arguments.

Now to address EC’s ridiculous accusations:
1. that’s a very fancy role declaration you’ve decided to concoct. In the interest of not wasting time, I am a patient in a clinical trial. The mod has told me I have a strong connection with a player which is what makes the research important. He did not tell me who this player is. I have also checked with the mod and no, I am not mafia.

2. ‘Especially since she knows Joesatri and Noni in real life’ – is this genuinely something you consider a valid argument?! Firstly, I would not be that stupid. Secondly, they are both old school players who have been active, of course the mafia would target them. By your logic @phox is also mafia cause she is also related to joesatri and noni.

3. Judging by your own reasoning, you are offering yourself as a sacrificial lamb on day 3?! This is not pro-town behaviour, as losing any more townies would only benefit mafia.

4. Daemon’s announcement of Joe’s death shows that mafia infect and kill, they do not join the mafia. It has been pointed out before that this kind of mechanic would make the game very unbalanced. Which means that there are still active mafia in our ranks, since Silvextru is the only one who has left the game so far. Killing me would achieve nothing. I am not mafia and not infecting anyone.

I don’t quite understand what your play is, and to be honest you’ve been playing in an erratic fashion since the beginning, making wild accusations without any substance. You said you were a polarising player but it seems to me you just like to pick fights and hope to start bandwagons. In my opinion, this isn’t a good way to rally team efforts into constructive town activity, so I will not try and start a reciprocal witch hunt.

I think our efforts are better served in trying to find the real mafia, since they are only one player down, and for sure still among us (see point 4). Here’s my list so far:
@Blissie has been barely active, posting just enough to stay below the radar. Vote blissie
@Siderite is king of gibberish and I don’t think he’s contributed at all.
As for @behemoth, we’ve been waiting on input since the previous game day, let’s home she pipes up today. As there seems to be pressure mounting on her, I won’t add my vote.

[EscapedConvict]

<snip>

This person is: @Mary (see my previous posts during D1 and D2 when I said she is not to be trusted)

She is my evil (infected) twin and per the moderator's design when one of us dies the other dies too.
But she is mafia and I am a townie.(yes. I confirmed this with Daemon)

<snip>

Is any of this reflected in your earlier daytime interactions or posts? Did your posts contain any traces of you suspecting Mary, any hints about twins, or any other tangential hints whatsoever?

Basically, what I'm trying to figure out is: how do I convince myself that this is not just a plan that was produced as a result of night-time brainstorming done by some mafia members just hours ago?

Absolutely they did. I will find those posts and quote them next. I see its vital I do so.

Here are the 3 post quotes from the previous 2 days where I left hints Mary is dirty:

1. Because I knew she was scum, but Rene never responded.

..but currently the people I trust most are Joesatri, Mary, Gridfon and Stringer in order.

May I ask why Mary?

2. She is top of the list

For what it's worth, besides my vote on radwulf, these are my fingers of suspicion as a result of Day 1.
(for posterity, in case I don't survive the night, even though, the mafia are in for a big surprise, if they target me ):

- Mary
- behemoth
- bombaclaat
- siderite
- SilveXtru
- Heffie
- Telvek
- pelasgi (inactive)
- Emilly (inactive)
- Renegade (completely inactive. will probably be mod killed)

3.This one is pretty clear.

Mary? I don't get it, you fought so hard against Moxy's abilities even when they were confimed and that wasn't good enough for you but Radwulf's roleclaim sounds legit? Just like that? Curious.

THIS

Remember I asked you why Mary was on your list of most likely townies on Day1?

There is a very good reason she is top of my suspects list after radwulf and the reasons seem to keep pilling up as go move along in the game.

Mary is not to be trusted. I'll leave it at that for now.

[EscapedConvict]

Do you have any further proof that Mary is mafia, and/or Patient 0?

Besides the fact that Daemon told me she was infected and "taken over". Again he used a better term. the one used in the context of airplanes , no, but it cannot mean anything else then she is mafia.
But it's pretty clear mafia kills by infecting people first to block them from using their townie weapon of voting and then to kill them off next day (Joesatri).

Have you know Mary was your twin and was infected from the beginning or did you learn so later?

Form the very start in the role email I got from Daemon.

[Emilly]

@EscapedConvict and @Mary do you have NTA?

Does anyone have information about them?

[Emilly]

@EscapedConvict what's exactly your role? And do you have NTA?

[EscapedConvict]

@EscapedConvict what's exactly your role? And do you have NTA?

@EscapedConvict and @Mary do you have NTA?

Does anyone have information about them?

I don't have any NTAs, besides the fact that I know Mary is my evil twin.

My role: Twin

[phox]

Morning all, first off what a horrible way for joe to die. Silver lining, at least there are no deaths and we have one less mafia to worry about (Silvextru).

Unfortunate that radwulf turned out to be town but I have to say his vehement conviction that joe had come up with a very elaborate and unrealistic ploy made him incredibly suspicious. As I said before, I thought things were simpler than that and believed joe’s arguments.

Now to address EC’s ridiculous accusations:
1. that’s a very fancy role declaration you’ve decided to concoct. In the interest of not wasting time, I am a patient in a clinical trial. The mod has told me I have a strong connection with a player which is what makes the research important. He did not tell me who this player is. I have also checked with the mod and no, I am not mafia.

2. ‘Especially since she knows Joesatri and Noni in real life’ – is this genuinely something you consider a valid argument?! Firstly, I would not be that stupid. Secondly, they are both old school players who have been active, of course the mafia would target them. By your logic @phox is also mafia cause she is also related to joesatri and noni.

3. Judging by your own reasoning, you are offering yourself as a sacrificial lamb on day 3?! This is not pro-town behaviour, as losing any more townies would only benefit mafia.

4. Daemon’s announcement of Joe’s death shows that mafia infect and kill, they do not join the mafia. It has been pointed out before that this kind of mechanic would make the game very unbalanced. Which means that there are still active mafia in our ranks, since Silvextru is the only one who has left the game so far. Killing me would achieve nothing. I am not mafia and not infecting anyone.

I don’t quite understand what your play is, and to be honest you’ve been playing in an erratic fashion since the beginning, making wild accusations without any substance. You said you were a polarising player but it seems to me you just like to pick fights and hope to start bandwagons. In my opinion, this isn’t a good way to rally team efforts into constructive town activity, so I will not try and start a reciprocal witch hunt.

I think our efforts are better served in trying to find the real mafia, since they are only one player down, and for sure still among us (see point 4). Here’s my list so far:
@Blissie has been barely active, posting just enough to stay below the radar. Vote blissie
@Siderite is king of gibberish and I don’t think he’s contributed at all.
As for @behemoth, we’ve been waiting on input since the previous game day, let’s home she pipes up today. As there seems to be pressure mounting on her, I won’t add my vote.

@Mary so nice of you to start with the "good news" that nobody died, are you trying to distract us from the fact that mafia is actually killing us in a slow manner? (probably someone was infected, today they are ill or have high temperature and they will die the next day)

Nevermind that, the thing that most bugs me about you and find highly suspicious is how in D2 when radwulf declared his role you have several posts saying you believe him and that the role sounds "legit" to you, also, look here:

People hate it being forcefully stuck indoors. And they take it out on those that enforce such desperate measures. Moxy proved that for all his efforts, there's no corralling an angry mob.

This doesn't sound malevolent to me - 'his efforts to enforce such desperate measures',... in the main storyline, these measures serve the town.

As for you @EC, so far you have more than demonstrated that you are the one not to be trusted.
You are trying to instant lynch the one declared nurse. It makes a lot of sense to me that someone has temp checking NTA. I would expect there to be a nurse on the station. So that along with the NTA seems legit. Moxys role declaration and game play in day 1 did not seem legit, so I voted in accordance with that.

Who radwulf chose to check in night 1 is not suspicious, this is a game with lots of players, intel on any of them can prove useful. Him choosing someone new to the game is not some smoking gun. You painting it as a reason to incriminate him is very trigger happy and very suspicious.

The thing i can't explain is why Joe had a temp on night 2, unless whatever affected him during day 1 is longer lasting. @Joe please speak to this.

And after that you just come back much later super dandy and vote radwulf off and disappear again for the rest of the day, to me it seems like it's a sneaky way to casually vote off the nurse without being suspected....in the beginning you were defending rad, when there weren't so many people against him, so you could blend into the townie group, but as soon as you got a small opening and felt like you could justify your choice and it didn't make you look so sketchy, you voted for radwulf, this is something I mentioned yesterday as well. So yeah, consider yourself on the suspect list.

BUT this whole @EscapedConvict 's word against @Mary 's is reminding me an awful lot about yesterday's drama and confusion revolving around who to side with , joe vs rad, and I don't want us to go down that road again, although to be fair mary seems guiltier than the two dead folks and also I have been noticing the trail of breadcrumbs EC has been leaving behind from the beginning of the game, what I am asking myself now is:

- what if EC is twisting the truth and has some elaborate strategy he has been using since the beginning of the game to be able to justify his reasoning with references to his old clues? would he stand to gain something from this? possibly, if his win condition is something else than what he told us and he was bluffing when he voted for himself. ( it's a theory that came to my mind, I am more inclined currently to believe ECs theory and not overcomplicate things the way radwulf did yesterday)

- is it worth it to kill a presumed highjacked @Mary now and cause EC to die as well? I think we have enough dead townies at the moment and would like to deal with this issue later in the day, especially because I would like to get ECs input on the rest of the people he thinks are mafia.
I think the topic of the players that cast their vote during the last minutes of the day to radwulf is a very interesting topic we should all discuss primarily.

[Clemens]

I've been reading along as a neutral up to this point - not having planned to join in - but here I am having rushed through the excessive amount of posts to catch up in time.
From my understanding, I replaced Pelasgi 1:1.
Time for a belated first post.
(For the record, one of those guests you guys were paranoid about was me reading along without actually having an account yet.)

@Gridfon I bet you were giddy all night at the prospect of finally throwing down with me again, old pal.
As for your enquiry:
- I would not have thought @Moxy was evil, just overeager in a very clumsy way - but I do know Moxy from elsewhere, and this was classic Moxy.

- @Trigardon was unfortunate.

- I would likely have voted for @Radwulf myself, since his playstyle was foolishly aggressive, arrogant, and short-sighted - he got multiple townies lynched with no remorse and wanted to prevent joe's potential death revealing any clues (which fortunately failed). I didn't believe the way he presented his role, but which now turns out was true. I even would have thought he might be a third party (because of his insights that no one else seemed to have) with limited time available (because of his almost desperate demeanor to rush things done, despite being convinced himself that his role is vitally important). He kept bringing up a "zombie infection"-conspiracy and "guards are evil faction"-conspiracy too vehemently. But, alas, he was telling the truth about himself so throw that theory out of the window. I believe "Nurse", and his NTA, are townie. But I also believe, with joe's death confirmed, he hadn't fully grasped how his NTA actually works.

- The loud active ones (most of them are dead by now and turned out townie) are a lot less interesting to me than the ones contributing just enough to not get noticed yet not too little to be considered observing. Primarily I've noticed that @Gridfon would always contribute with some logic to make sure the ball was rolling in the direction he wanted without getting his own hands dirty. He had an active part in getting Moxy killed, despite knowing classic Moxy as well. And poked at the D2 fires just enough to keep them going without having to do much himself - to then conveniently have some kind of evidence that Radwulf is townie at the last moments so he could claim points the next day. At the same time he, allegedly, revealed important information about his possible role - making himself a target for the night - which seemed very foolish considering he didn't actually give us anything to actually convince anyone to drop the Radwulf bandwagon. I don't remember Gridfon being a foolish, impulsive man who would put himself at such risk with no actual gain; he's more calculated than that. Which has me believe that he hasn't actually put himself at risk. Combine that with the aforementioned subtle nudges into his desired directions and I currently can't see anything other than scum lurking behind his words.

- Then there is @princess.ruxi who isn't loud either, but always eager to be a part of the bandwagon train as long as it doesn't get her too much attention.

- @Mary pops in once in a while to pitch in and disappear again. We've been told it's because of a busy work schedule, fair enough. But perhaps it's not just her real life schedule, but also deliberate. She's one of the veterans, she'd know what she's doing.

- @EC attempts to contribute actively, but sometimes it feels like he attempts too hard. As for the role "twin" that he claimed, it sticks out to not fit categorically to any of the confirmed roles so far. I've never played with a role description like that so I don't know what to think about it at this point.

- @Siterite uh, what?

- @phox has appeared to have a pro-town demeanor going on with some extra bits of charm.

- If @Bombaclaat is telling the truth, this would imply that the vote-force NTA is more likely not a Mafia role, since there would be no point in forcing someone to vote for someone they know will not survive the night. But mind you, rendering his vote useless is not a big deal since it's not like he has contributed anything so far anyway.

- @Sander and @Rene have been decently active - as long as you don't compare them to overeager Moxy, Radwulf, and EC - with swings in both directions.

- @zero has been all over the place. At times seemingly very immature and at other times aggressively trying to prove a point that has no chance of being proven.

- A lot of quiet and/or inactive players that haven't really done anything. I've been told the quiet ones are usually either scum or useless. So there's that.

- I believe the secruity guards are not Mafia and most likely townie of some sort, but don't ask me for specifics. Moxy misplayed badly and struck a decisive blow to that group with the help of his eager lynchers.

- I believe the Mafia kills by infecting players, which then slowly die as shown by joesatri. Which begs the question, do they infect every night? If so, when was joe infected and how long does it take for the infection to actually kill someone? Questions that most of us can't answer and the other portion won't.

- I don't know if "Infected Gardner" is Mafia, but considering that all other roles so far had a distinct lack of "infected" in front of their names, I would assume this is our first lead into an evil faction of sorts.


There are many directions to go. EC vs Mary, for one. Silent players, another. Players that have lynched Moxy and/or Radwulf are an option. Or the players that wanted to dispose of joesatri before evidence of how he was going to die could be confirmed.

So, having said all that,@phox, after your monologue purely intended to show us that you're not ignoring the EC vs Mary thing going on but would rather not focus on it, who are you actually going after?

[EscapedConvict]

If we were to lynch you, @EscapedConvict, would that yield the same result? If you are telling the truth, your infected twin should die instantly, right?

Do you know for sure that she [Mary] has no way of escaping if you are eliminated?

Forgot to answer this.

I cant be 100% sure since Daemon likes to mess with people's heads a lot of times as we all know.

In his response to me when he confirmed the basic premise of me playing for the town and Mary playing for the mafia, he also mentioned that my ability, what gives me protection from the mafia, is the fact that Mary will die when I die and then at the end he wished me good luck and said something to the effect of "let's hope that ability will be there until the end" (not quoting him, ofcourse)

Now did he say that to even things out for clarifying some other things for me or did he say it as a clue ?...Who knows

Nonetheless it does leave the possibility this strong connection between me and my evil twin Mary might be broken at some point.

But I'm willing to take that chance and end Mary sooner then later .
Safest bet right now, imo.

[EscapedConvict]

- @EC attempts to contribute actively, but sometimes it feels like he attempts too hard. As for the role "twin" that he claimed, it sticks out to not fit categorically to any of the confirmed roles so far. I've never played with a role description like that so I don't know what to think about it at this point.

Fair point.
My full role name: "Volunteer Twin Test Subject"

I'd hate for semantics to stand in ithe way of the substance in what I was actually saying.

Didn't pay much attention to the story truth be told since that is usually just fluff.

So the rest of the fluff in Daemon's story about myself and Mary goes something like this:
Because we are such a perfectly connected (physically, mentally and emotionally ) pair of twins we were asked to be part of some new and state of the art tests and we agreed.
But soon I realized my twin was compromised and if one of us died or went into cryo-stasis the other onw would as well.

That's the gist of the story behind the role.

[EscapedConvict]

Clarification:
Obviously I don't believe the story as a whole is fluff. Of course it has relevance to our game, I meant the small details that give it color are. So I have a tendency to tune them out and just get the basic outline of what is important and vital to solving the puzzle.

[Princess.ruxi]

Good morning!
Please read this carefully, do not skim this post.

As I feared the worst has happened. It seems I was targeted last night and now I have the 'RONA. I have all the symptoms of an acute respiratory infection. I went to the infirmary to get checked and it seems I won't make it through the night just like JoeSatri. I also, just like Joe, got a clue that I could have been saved. I am sad to be leaving this game, but also eager to make the most of today. (I have no mention of any mandatory cleaning)

As you can see there are are a few conclusion to be drawn from this:
- Mafia kills by infecting people, only they die a slow death
- There is no connection between the bad food and the infection, it was just a coincidence that Joe received both
- There's also probably a vigilante or a psycho among us (the hammer and the knife kills) - I think it can only kill every 2 nights - acted on night 0 and 2, but not on night 1 and 3
- EC is probably right and Mary is patient 0, the one who became ONE with the animals in the test lab
- there is a mafia vote enforcer that keeps players from voting by sending them bad food, and a townie vote enforcer who can force players to vote for someone (today's case Bombaclaat forced to vote for a dead person - how is that even possible??!)

Now moving onto my role and info I have.
I am an engineer. As a technical expert I supervise multiple systems on the facility. One of them is the keycard access system. Every night I can swap ID cards with one of the players and then read their access logs in the morning.
I targeted @behemoth on night 1- she did not leave her room
I targeted @MrWaffles on night 2 - he visited @Noni and got her ill and unable to vote
I targeted @EscapedConvict on night 3 - he did not leave his room. I think this somewhat confirms his role claim, as he said he has no NTA.

I am OK with lynching MrWaffles and Mary. Preferably in that order, I would keep EscapedConvict around until the end of the day.
vote MrWaffles

[Bombaclaat]

- there is a mafia vote enforcer that keeps players from voting by sending them bad food, and a townie vote enforcer who can force players to vote for someone (today's case Bombaclaat forced to vote for a dead person - how is that even possible??!)

vote MrWaffles

Just got a email from the big boss and he said I had to vote that way and had no choice in the matter. Regardless of him being dead and all I asked specifically. I'm simply not allowed to ignore it.

How can you be sure that the latter is not a mafia ability? Making me vote in a non-nonsensical way is clearly an attempt to make me look very dubious and thus appear to be mafia. He said they can use the NTA any way the seem fit even if it is nonsensical. It would be a pretty weird thing for me to make up. Besides I'm clearly not the player that's most eager to vote for townies. I've no idea who the mafia are and many of my votes have been made in jest.

[MrWaffles]

Good morning!
Please read this carefully, do not skim this post.

As I feared the worst has happened. It seems I was targeted last night and now I have the 'RONA. I have all the symptoms of an acute respiratory infection. I went to the infirmary to get checked and it seems I won't make it through the night just like JoeSatri. I also, just like Joe, got a clue that I could have been saved. I am sad to be leaving this game, but also eager to make the most of today. (I have no mention of any mandatory cleaning)

As you can see there are are a few conclusion to be drawn from this:
- Mafia kills by infecting people, only they die a slow death
- There is no connection between the bad food and the infection, it was just a coincidence that Joe received both
- There's also probably a vigilante or a psycho among us (the hammer and the knife kills) - I think it can only kill every 2 nights - acted on night 0 and 2, but not on night 1 and 3
- EC is probably right and Mary is patient 0, the one who became ONE with the animals in the test lab
- there is a mafia vote enforcer that keeps players from voting by sending them bad food, and a townie vote enforcer who can force players to vote for someone (today's case Bombaclaat forced to vote for a dead person - how is that even possible??!)

Now moving onto my role and info I have.
I am an engineer. As a technical expert I supervise multiple systems on the facility. One of them is the keycard access system. Every night I can swap ID cards with one of the players and then read their access logs in the morning.
I targeted @behemoth on night 1- she did not leave her room
I targeted @MrWaffles on night 2 - he visited @Noni and got her ill and unable to vote
I targeted @EscapedConvict on night 3 - he did not leave his room. I think this somewhat confirms his role claim, as he said he has no NTA.

I am OK with lynching MrWaffles and Mary. Preferably in that order, I would keep EscapedConvict around until the end of the day.
vote MrWaffles

Hi all,

I have seen this now and would like to address this before going on to other posts. I am happy to do a role claim regarding what Princess.ruxi has said. Please let me know if you would like that, and if enough of the town says yes I can give my explanation before you decide whether or not to vote for me.

-MrWaffles

[MrWaffles]

Just so that you know that I am not stalling, if seven people (33% of the people still around) ask for a role claim from me, I will be happy to give one. I'll try to do it very soon after I see that level of interest. I may also claim with less than seven people asking. I am going to assume Princess.ruxi will want me to reveal, so she can be one of those seven by default.

-MrWaffles

[zero]

EC's revelations are pretty extraordinary. I certainly haven't seen anything like it in any mafia games I played before. I need a little bit more time to go over the interactions between him and @Mary thus far. To be honest, after yesterday's developments, both of them looked like mafia to me.

@MrWaffles The accusations against you are very serious. It is therefore imperative you reveal your role and NTAs as soon as possible so that we can decide on your allegiances.

[Gridfon]

- There is no connection between the bad food and the infection, it was just a coincidence that Joe received both

It would be nice to confirm this. Is anyone suffering from food poisoning today?

I targeted @MrWaffles on night 2 - he visited @Noni and got her ill and unable to vote

Is the part saying "and got her ill and unable to vote" your own interpretation? Your NTA does not seem to imply this.

I'm in perfect health but I had a visitor and I'm compelled to vote for Joesatri. Apparently our discussion was inspired and eye-opening and I simply cannot vote for anyone else, anything else or abstain.

Vote: Joesatri

Seems a bit crazy considering he's dead.

Bombaclaat was convinced to vote against Joesatri during the night, when Joesatri was still alive (well, technically it is possible that Joesatri died the same exact moment when Bombaclaat was convinced). So I think it's plausible. In contrast, if Joesatri died strictly prior to that, then I would call a bluff here.

[Emilly]

@Princess.ruxi

I targeted @behemoth on night 1- she did not leave her room
I targeted @MrWaffles on night 2 - he visited @Noni and got her ill and unable to vote
I targeted @EscapedConvict on night 3 - he did not leave his room. I think this somewhat confirms his role claim, as he said he has no NTA. 

Your NTA is the same as Joesatri's? From McWaffles we could hear a role.

Ec And Mary could be patients being tested and may have different reactions. It would be Daemon's style. And I think he has a lot of fun reading our posts. However, I think Mary should be investigated at night just to be sure id EC is under the influence of drugs Otherwise we could kill 2 villagers and then we would have serious problems.
If you agree, we'll leave Mary until tomorrow morning and we'll know if she's infected or not.

[valli]

@Gridfon concerning your statement I will answer below.

There are three people who undeniably chose to ignore my attempt to save Radwulf. Those are @Sander, @Nanaa, and @valli. All of them kept on posting after my request to stop the lynch, so neither of them can claim that they were not around to withdraw their vote and save Radwulf. Other people from the Radwulf-lynching crowd were showing as "browsing this forum" at the time, but they did not leave as much hard evidence behind, unlike the ones I listed.

I will try to illustrate my voting behaviour throughout the last 2 days:

Day one I voted for @Nanaa , then @Skuggi and then the discusson between @radwulf and @Moxy got intense. I stated in one post the following about @radwulf :

add radwulf
You are really very aggressive and pushed for role declarations quite a lot. Now that you by others to claim yours, you are trying to ignoring this. Heffie is trying to obviously defend you now after being almost 2 days silent. That's for me really odd ... Also this non-sense of pre-lynch and last chance. Nobody had that much vote counts that it was really a last chance. My gut feeling tells me that you are fishy as well.

I went then on, voting for @Moxy. However 1 hour before the voting deadline I reasoned again and came to the conclusion that Moxy's role declaration can make sense due to checking information from previous games. Then I wrote the following ...

That's up to others, I can only justify my action Moxy. There is still over one hour time. It's the vote of each single person which counts in the end.

Concluding that I can only go for the other voting option, which is to push the guy, wich brought all this Moxy drama on top of us.

vote radwulf

Day 2 I started with the same vote, see:

So, no good morning... we lynched a townie and mafia killed another one. Both security team.

I will put my vote from last day on and want to here statement from radwulf.

vote raduwlf

There were some voting discussions concerning my voting behavior on day one and I tried to answer them as well on D2

Let's not forget moxy was accusing valli heavily before he conveniently decided to change his vote from moxy just a couple of hours before the day was ending and moxy had accumulated enough votes anyway to be lynched

Yes Moxy did that. Several times he accused me of being mafia. He also accused radwulf and he pointed out that we should not at all believe people which come on the next day telling us that the security team is a third faction.

I switched my vote for good reason, like I stated twice before. At the time, when I switched my vote there was plenty of time to get Moxy from the lynch. Plenty of people which voted for him where present (and wrote) and could've easily changed the outcome.

@radwulf meanwhile explained his role an I went on to push for @Trigardon . Then I got informed by the mod that my vote has to stay on @Trigardon as someone forced me over night to do so and the email didn't reach me. @Trigardon was killed and I could freely vote again. (Clarified that with the mod).

I went then on my pursuit to get more information from inactive players and vote for @behemoth. Next the discussion about radwulfs role explanation started and meanwhile people wanted to insta lynch @joesatri. I did not aggree with the insta-lynch and could not see the contradiction in @radwulf role declaration.

@behemoth meanwhile ignored the votes on him, and I did not see the town on pushing on him. Actually the votes where split into 3 factions (radwulf, joesatri and behemoth).

9 votes for deadline lynch

Code: Select all

6	Radwulf		Silvextru, Joesatri, Blissie, Rene, EscapedConvict, Mary
3	Behemoth	Nanaa, Heffie, Valli
3	Joesatri	Radwulf, Siderite, Sander
1      Bombaclaat	Phox

#######################################


@phox So why exactly are we not focusing now on eliminating one of the more or less inactive players (e.g. like we have started with behemoth) instead of doing that useless vote on Bombaclaat?

@radwulf @Siderite @Sander I can't see your voting strategy working out. We have 45 minutes to consolidate on someone.

I suggested fo focus on one of the inactives, people convinced me that @Daemon would take care of them and therefore I unvoted @behemoth. @joesatri did then his final role declaration and explained that he checked EC.

As joe and EC where both pushing for @radwulf and I had my troubles with @radwulf's playstyle throughout the game I voted him.

@Gridfon came then up with his statement, but sorry that wasn't enough to change my vote and I stated that.

I have an inconclusive NTA-based evidence that exonerates radwulf.

That is why I chose to demonstratively observe who attacks him today and not probe him myself at all. I was sure there will be plenty of effort put into this without my help.

I think it would be very foolish to lynch him yet. But it is also foolish for me -- or any of us -- to claim that we understand how our world works, or that we know enough information to tell who is truly innocent or evil in here.

What is an inconclusive evidence man and how can something inconclusive exonerate him ... oh man it's 8 minutes before the deadline ... be a bit more precise

So, yes in the end I switched my vote pretty late on @radwulf.
Now imagine if we wouldn't have killed radwulf. @joesatri would've died and we would've gone for radwulf this day again. At least I would've pushed for him as @joesatri had even mentioned that we should not believe him any longer in case he dies as a towny.

[Siderite]

@Siderite is king of gibberish and I don’t think he’s contributed at all.

Considering all your performance so far, not contributing is a positive measure, wouldn't you say? The one ironically Mary should pray to God, for life that seemed so safe is suddenly cut loose and drifting like a milk-weed pod.

[Princess.ruxi]

- There is no connection between the bad food and the infection, it was just a coincidence that Joe received both

It would be nice to confirm this. Is anyone suffering from food poisoning today?

I targeted @MrWaffles on night 2 - he visited @Noni and got her ill and unable to vote

Is the part saying "and got her ill and unable to vote" your own interpretation? Your NTA does not seem to imply this.

Yes the part with getting ill and unable to vote is my own interpretation based on the events that occurred that day.

[Princess.ruxi]

@Princess.ruxi

I targeted @behemoth on night 1- she did not leave her room
I targeted @MrWaffles on night 2 - he visited @Noni and got her ill and unable to vote
I targeted @EscapedConvict on night 3 - he did not leave his room. I think this somewhat confirms his role claim, as he said he has no NTA. 

Your NTA is the same as Joesatri's? From McWaffles we could hear a role.

No. My ability is complementary. Joe could see who enters the room of a player. I can "see" where they go during the night.

[Siderite]

If seven people (33% of the people still around) ask for a role claim from me, I will be happy to give one.

I would like to know your role. I hope it's real and not one that you've carefully prepared and can wait to test. Wake up my friend and realize the wrong you hide, truth will reveal.

[Emilly]

@joesatri said before he died:

Reading carefully, my N2 target did NOT LEAVE the room (EC)

@Princess.ruxi :

I targeted @EscapedConvict on night 3 - he did not leave his room.

[Noni]

@Princess.ruxi
I didn't skim through your post, as such vote MrWaffles
I agree that the food poisoning is not related to the infection but I think it's a mafia ability as blocking a townie from voting can only be bad.
@Clemens i resent the fact that I don't exist in your post. I mean I even said hello this morning and didn't get a reply.

Regarding @EscapedConvict posts :
- never seen a game with this type of role but I won't dismiss it
- if you don't have an nta it's likely your twin counterpart doesn't either
- if I was you I would have sat on this info longer and used it to the town's benefit
- agree with @phox and @Princess.ruxi that we should put a pin in this.

Waiting for a role from @MrWaffles .

[Princess.ruxi]

Yes. I only half believed Joesatri's role and the claim that he was going to die this night. After radwulf died I believing Joe and EC are both mafia and he was trying to help EC escape suspicion. Guilty.
I targeted EC to confirm this. Plus it was all that gibberish coming from Joe about reading emails all wrong all the time.

[Sander]

EC according to your logic, Noni would be dead next. And it’s Princess. @Noni does it say something about you dying?
Also we might be wrong about how long it takes to die. Joe, might have been targeted on N1, Princesss on N2.


So I pressume she is THE ONE infecting people. Especially since she knows Joesatri and Noni in real life (I think they are related? or at least good friends)
Makes sense that she would target them first.

And now to handle this rotten player. Who - when radwulf does not have enough votes to be lynched - decides to cover for him, with just his word. When he knows he’s not trusted. When someone you don’t trust, gives his word about someone else. You Lynch to person. That’s simple as it is.

Out of them, @Sander stands out the most, because first he tried to pick up a pointless fight with me, and then basically suggested that he lynched Radwulf in spite of my request. So he's the obvious target to pursue now.

You may vote all you want, but I still think your are the rotten player. Just look at this. You wasted 3 days. 3 days. Not being helpful at all. And you being “helpful” only lead to the finishing vote that caused the death of our nurse.

You have 6 minutes to convince me.

I have an inconclusive NTA-based evidence that exonerates radwulf.

I will put no effort in convincing you now.

All day long, Gridfon could sabotaged us. We had endless discussions while he had information that could have saved us 3 days. 10 minutes before the deadline he asks us to not vote radwulf. Based on secret information. I don't buy it. Either you could have saved us three days of bickering. Or your desire is to save your little friend from being lynched.

Primarily I've noticed that @Gridfon would always contribute with some logic to make sure the ball was rolling in the direction he wanted without getting his own hands dirty. He had an active part in getting Moxy killed, despite knowing classic Moxy as well. And poked at the D2 fires just enough to keep them going without having to do much himself - to then conveniently have some kind of evidence that Radwulf is townie at the last moments so he could claim points the next day. At the same time he, allegedly, revealed important information about his possible role - making himself a target for the night - which seemed very foolish considering he didn't actually give us anything to actually convince anyone to drop the Radwulf bandwagon. I don't remember Gridfon being a foolish, impulsive man who would put himself at such risk with no actual gain; he's more calculated than that. Which has me believe that he hasn't actually put himself at risk. Combine that with the aforementioned subtle nudges into his desired directions and I currently can't see anything other than scum lurking behind his words.

[Noni]

@Sander no I didn't get any emails any getting infected for dying
Joe mentioned that he got confused but received clarification from the mod. N1 he was blocked from voting the next day, n2 he received a cleaning order and also he was told he would not survive n3.

[Gridfon]

@Gridfon came then up with his statement, but sorry that wasn't enough to change my vote and I stated that.

I have an inconclusive NTA-based evidence that exonerates radwulf.

That is why I chose to demonstratively observe who attacks him today and not probe him myself at all. I was sure there will be plenty of effort put into this without my help.

I think it would be very foolish to lynch him yet. But it is also foolish for me -- or any of us -- to claim that we understand how our world works, or that we know enough information to tell who is truly innocent or evil in here.

What is an inconclusive evidence man and how can something inconclusive exonerate him ... oh man it's 8 minutes before the deadline ... be a bit more precise

So, yes in the end I switched my vote pretty late on @radwulf.

That's a weak excuse. Me vouching for Radwulf is a game changer, as I already explained in my earlier post. I associated myself with him, and at that point my role declaration or NTA claims do not matter. (Neither they could be typed within <= 10 minutes, even if I had time to sit down and go for it right away). Once I vouched for Radwulf, anyone consciously keeping their vote on Radwulf is a very bad gambler at best, and a mafia at worst.

Now it's unlikely that all 3 of you are mafia. Some of you are very bad gamblers.

Now imagine if we wouldn't have killed radwulf. @joesatri would've died and we would've gone for radwulf this day again. At least I would've pushed for him as @joesatri had even mentioned that we should not believe him any longer in case he dies as a towny.

We would have an extra temperature reading (claim) from Nurse.
You would force my role claim and my NTA claims as the first thing in the morning.
You would have other people pitching in with their NTA results targeting both me and Radwulf.
The information about me+Radwulf would snowball into bringing more clarity quite quickly.

[Noni]

@Sander no I didn't get any emails any getting infected for dying
Joe mentioned that he got confused but received clarification from the mod. N1 he was blocked from voting the next day, n2 he received a cleaning order and also he was told he would not survive n3.

Typing from my phone is death. That is meant to say:
No I didn't receive any email about getting infected or dying.

[Gridfon]

Who - when radwulf does not have enough votes to be lynched - decides to cover for him, with just his word. When he knows he’s not trusted. When someone you don’t trust, gives his word about someone else. You Lynch to person. That’s simple as it is.

This knee-jerk reaction was extremely likely to hurt the town regardless of my affiliation. See #997. Besides, no one in this game is trusted. So the whole argument about singling me out as not being trusted - is moot at best.

You wasted 3 days. 3 days. Not being helpful at all. And you being “helpful” only lead to the finishing vote that caused the death of our nurse.

Please elaborate on the claim that I wasted 3 days. Make it more specific for me.

Primarily I've noticed that @Gridfon would always contribute with some logic to make sure the ball was rolling in the direction he wanted without getting his own hands dirty. He had an active part in getting Moxy killed, despite knowing classic Moxy as well. And poked at the D2 fires just enough to keep them going without having to do much himself - to then conveniently have some kind of evidence that Radwulf is townie at the last moments so he could claim points the next day. At the same time he, allegedly, revealed important information about his possible role - making himself a target for the night - which seemed very foolish considering he didn't actually give us anything to actually convince anyone to drop the Radwulf bandwagon. I don't remember Gridfon being a foolish, impulsive man who would put himself at such risk with no actual gain; he's more calculated than that. Which has me believe that he hasn't actually put himself at risk. Combine that with the aforementioned subtle nudges into his desired directions and I currently can't see anything other than scum lurking behind his words.

Hiding behind Clemens' skirt will not get your far. If you want to attack me, you should take Clemens post, extract the parts that you agree with, and make them into questions. Then I will respond to them. The general sentiment that "I agree with Clemens who thinks that Gridfon feels fishy" will not lead to any actionable responses from my side.

But just to entertain me, could you please elaborate on this part that you signed up to?

conveniently have some kind of evidence that Radwulf is townie at the last moments so he could claim points the next day

Are you saying that I am likely to be a mafia player who mounted a desperate last-moment effort to stop a lynch of a detective-styled "Nurse"... just to earn some trust? Can you tell me which outcome was the most likely to have earned me someone's trust?

----

And now back to you. You basically spent all of the previous evening trying to paint me bad, but focused on your emotions rather than on anything specific that I could have answered to. (And hence I largely ignored you, because it looked like your main purpose was to produce a distraction). Now that I'm focused on you, I want to learn your thought process so I can assess whether there is a glimmer of hope about you.

This was our interaction:

As it is going at the moment, we can't even rally up enough people for a deadline Lynch. Let alone an instant Lynch and a deadline Lynch. So let us at least play with the active ones. Let Daemon sort out the inactive ones.

People keep bringing this up, but this is nonsense. Multiple instant lynches per day are not allowed. Read the rules.

@Gridfon Multiple instant lynches per day are now allowed. Each time there is a lynch, all votes cast are reset.
Read the rules, please.

Right. Daemon will make me paranoid. Was that "now" always in there, or fixed as a typo post-factum? I consistently read it as "not".

Oh Gridfon, it must be fun not having the follow the game and just look on who you can bandwagon. Life as a mafia is so freakingly easy, is it not?

It clearly is nonsense. So much nonsense we already did it 12 hours ago. We lynched Trigardon and still continue this day. If only Daemon and all of us had read the rules. I'm very sorry everyone is talking nonsense. Daemon, can you delete everything and start the night? Because Gridfon says it's not allowed.

Gridfon, Trigardon got lynched today. Just so you are up to speed. Seriously, Gridfon, do have you any clue of what is happening? Not that you need to know. Right. You just need to vote on some random non mafia friends.

And because you are willing to analyse voting so profoundly, in not a single official Daemon post have you voted. Not even once. Why aren't you voting.
Because you are also not following what is really happening?

You have now spent 2 posts being outraged at me, and you still have fewer posts (of ultimately less substance) than me. How ironic.

If that’s what you call being outraged. And it’s easy for you to call your own posts substantial important. Because saying we can’t Lynch and continue the day, had a lot of meaning. Right?
No, that was all nonsense. The fact that we already did it today with Trigardon is best ignored. Let’s definitely not zoom in on that. No. Let’s just say Sander is outraged. That works better. Discredit him. Don’t answer. Ignore. Just say crazy Sander does shit. Me posting vote counts is what adds to this game.

I misread the rules, was corrected by Princess.ruxi, and admitted my bad 2 posts later, within 9 minutes. Why did you keep bringing it up in rhetorical ways hours later? What was your goal? If you want to attack me, why -- up to this point - you haven't put effort into crystallizing any non-rhetorical points that would actually require my response (and hence put me in some risk of stumbling, which should be the entire point of attacking me in the first place... if you were an innocent player, anyway)?

[Mary]

Regards to @phox post 1009

@phox - I started the day with commiserations for joe an expression of relief about there not being another dead player, since has been the instance of waking up to two people dead. C’mon, it’s a long post, I’m not trying to distract from anything, I’m relaying my opinion after reading the start of the day message. Looks like you’re right, unfortunately someone has been infected – sorry to hear that @princess.ruxi. The role makes sense and I don’t think there is any motive to mislead the town. You are however wrong about me being patient 0, there was nothing in my role about that. I volunteered to be in a clinical trial to advance vaccine research. If you read the story you’ll see that someone in a lab touched something and they became one, that to me suggests that patient 0 has a lab-type role.

Re: voting @radwulf , I already explained why the strong suspicion on him, in the very post you quoted. Initially his vote did sound legit, but then there was that entire palaver about his game play. He said that going after someone actively on day 1 is some kind of alibi and his resolute theory about @joesatri just did not hold water. I genuinely did not see how lynching a soon to be dead player served the town (it would have meant time and lots of posts spent on that and also no mod info) – all of those things together were not compatible with town behaviour in my eyes so I cast my vote to him. I was working a 12h shift in real life and had about 15 min for my lunch break and then I ‘disappeared again for the rest of the day’ since it was a very busy shift. My commute is an hour so by the time I got home the day had ended, but do please accept my sincere apologies for not prioritising this game ahead of my clinical duties.

@Clemens , welcome. How fortunate that you were following along since there’s now 1000+ posts. Nice summary.

Regards to my role, have volunteered to be in a cutting edge programme so they can study the effect of mild bugs and infections given my interesting physiology. I have a limited NTA that has 1 use, and that is to try and identify the player I have such a strong connection with (this is all paraphrased by the way). I’m guessing this is so I don’t end up voting for this person and inadvertently killing myself given our very strong connection. I haven’t used it so far because I did not want to waste it, but it looks like I have the misfortune of it being @EscapedConvict and if that’s correct then he’s just single-handedly decided to damage townie numbers further. EC I find it hard to believe that Daemon would answer questions about other players to you, since his rules are very clear and you say you haven’t got an investigative NTA. Given your track record I think this is another grossly misguided theory on your part.

[MrWaffles]

Hi all,

So far five people would like me to reveal my role: Princess.ruxi, zero, Emilly, Siderite, and Noni. I said earlier that I will reveal at seven players request, and I will honor that promise. Please let me know if you think I should reveal. Thank you.

-MrWaffles

[Gridfon]

These are the disruptive NTAs we're experiencing. Out of them 3 are likely mafia-aligned, and the 4th is still quite mysterious. Anyone wants to shed some light on the question marks?

"I am rather unwell and cannot vote today" crowd:
Day 1: joesatri (post #31)
Day 2: Noni (post #584)
Day 3: ?

"I am going to die next morning" crowd:
Day 1: ---
Day 2: joesatri (#642)
Day 3: Princess.ruxi (post #1014)

"I had a visitor and I'm compelled to vote for ... our discussion was inspired and eye-opening and I simply cannot vote for anyone else, anything else or abstain" crowd:
Day 1: Noni against zero (post #716)
Day 2: valli against Trigardon (posts #665 and #1021)
Day 3: Bombaclaat against josatri (post #995)

"I had mandatory cleaning previous night" crowd:
Day 1: ?
Day 2: joesatri (#642)
Day 3: ?

[Sander]

@Gridfon So I'm an emotional player. I agree with that. I am. You say I've had it out for you. That's true. Because I don't trust you.
Have you ever said to an angry person, calm down. Have you ever noticed that he calms down. No. So yes, I blame you for the finishing blow. I don't trust you. And then you vouch for someone. When I ask you why, you only answer, I don't feel the need to convince you. Very constructive...

But even then, you could argue I wouldn't have listened anyway. Since I am emotional.

The main reason why I continued my vote is because you wasted three days. We were bickering between Joe and Radwulf. You claim to have evidence that could have apparently ended it immediately. But you refused that. So yes, that makes you very suspicious. In my eyes, the only reason why you would claim to have evidence - after 3 days - which you won't share, is when you are mafia. Of course when you are mafia, you know who is town.

[Princess.ruxi]

@Gridfon why did you wait until there were 10 more minutes to deadline in order to save radwulf?

[Gridfon]

you wasted three days. We were bickering between Joe and Radwulf. We were bickering between Joe and Radwulf. You claim to have evidence that could have apparently ended it immediately. But you refused that.

Of course I would not rush to reveal any evidence. Revealing that I have an investigative role (strong enough to just be able to outright confirm that Radwulf is likely a town member) comes at a great cost to me (and to the town). I would not survive long after revealing that. And now I am indeed likely to die soon. So it is likely I will declare my role and dump the little information I have before the end of the day. Will see how this plays out.

---

I did not want Radwulf to reveal the role, but I could not afford to be open about that. So I tried to deflect it into a different direction:

What now? I suppose there are three obvious targets for interrogation. Radwulf. Skuggi. Trigardon.

I will start from Skuggi. Did you learn anything new about having been able to send a response to Moxy?

vote Skuggi

Then I tried to defend Radwulf by focusing on joesatri, who did not seem to gave enough justification to start Day 2 with a bandwagon against Radwulf:

What now? I suppose there are three obvious targets for interrogation. Radwulf. Skuggi. Trigardon.

I will start from Skuggi. Did you learn anything new about having been able to send a response to Moxy?

vote Skuggi

Say what? Based on the above reasoning you vote Skuggi?

Explain your sentiment please. It seems to me you operate based on some NTA discussion (did mafia agree to bandwagon Radwulf to start the day?) or based on some NTA ability you performed (and I'm not interested in your role declaration, nope)... But clearly you have information that I do not possess... My vote somehow violated your implicit assumptions about something. Explain to me. Is that correct?

------------

You have very few substantial posts from day 1. There are #190 and #349... The other 8 posts all look like fluff to me (for example, you being able to count other people's votes does not help me deduce anything about your affiliation).

.. I will declare my role if I become the town's #1 suspect.

Careful what you wish for... You're only 3 votes behind!

This is the only time you mentioned Radwful during Day 1. And I'm not sure this is indicative of anything beyond some friendly banter. I'm not sure this shows your attitude for or against anything. I cannot deduce that you were hostile or suspicious against Radwulf at any point during Day 1. So now Day 2 starts and you immediately jump on top of the EC's bandwagon against Radwulf:

Sure, let's vote radwulf since today I can.

Based on day 1, I would say.. we have radwulf.. behemoth, SilveXtru... <- my top 3 picks from the voters of the our beloved security Chief.

Nothing of this tells me why radwulf is your target. Explain please.

Then deflect again:

I want to hear more from Trigardon next.
vote Trigardon

I knew Radwulf was likely to be innocent, so a bandwagon against just about any other player was more beneficial than one against Radwulf.

---

Unfortunately, the lots of you quickly forced Radwulf to declare his role, less than 24h from the start of Day 2. He had 6 votes against him at that point (6th vote by Sander, as well).

I am a NURSE, and each night I can go to someone's room and read their temperature with a infrared thermometer.

I targetted ADELA on night 1. Her temperature was normal.
I targetted JOESATRI on night 2. His temperature was higher than normal.

At that point, any urgency to defend Radwulf is lost. Revealing that I have information about Radwulf is a gift to mafia, and exposing myself for subtly defending Radwulf also puts me in unnecessary risk. On the other hand, I can learn a lot from observing who would push for Radwulf's lynch the most. Hopefully it does not come to his lynching -- then Radwulf survives and I learn some hints about the potential mafia members (more information than everyone else, because I have the extra knowledge exonerating Radwulf; there is less uncertainty). In the worst case, Radwulf gets close to being lynched, and I can decide in the last moment whether it is worth saving Radwulf at the expense of becoming a sitting duck myself.

When the end of the day approached, I put a bit more effort into defending Radwulf, deflecting to joesatri, and defending Radwulf again:

To everyone who can vote today please think about what @radwulf and @zero are asking you to do.
1. Give up precious info from daemon by lynching someone who was in no way forced to declare what he has (including a declaration that he will not survive the day)
2. Lynch Joe today so that he can't use his ability at night (when we know that he has been the target of attacks during night 1 and 2 and has confirmed what his nta is and who he has targeted)

Re-1: Not true. Joe basically declared (#642) in response to Radwulf's role declaration (#620).
Re-2: Makes no sense. Joe declared an investigative role. If Joe does not lie, and he dies in the morning, then his investigation will likely not even happen this night (and he certainly cannot relay it to us). If Joe is evil, he might still be able to use whatever single-charge ability (i.e. doable once per entire game) he might possess (such as infect or kill someone).

The downside of lynching Joe now is we might not learn some useful information from his death (if he is innocent). The upside is that he might not be able to harm the town this night (if he is evil). It's a flip of the coin decision, and everyone should judge this decision based on other factors.

In my early morning post (#583) I pointed out that Joe behaves suspiciously and got no response. I let it go unanswered because more important information came to light (first Radwulf's declaration and then Joe's declaration). Looking back at everything, I do not feel Joe deserves more of my trust now, so I will likely vote for him.

<snip>

Yes, this is a themed game. Yes, the roles have a twist. HOWEVER, it is OBVIOUS (ever for a 5 year old , that a cop and a doctor role are NOT to be combined.

Where am I going with this? This is a big mistake on radwulf's part, when he was making up his role. I'm not sure if he reharsed it front of a mirror, saying it outloud ("I am a NURSE. I am a NURSE. I AM A NURSE with a Cop-Type role, linked to a doctor"), but if he didn't, he should have! Saying it out loud, sounds bad

His role is a cop-type. In his place, I would have phrased it in a similar way. Because it is.
If you imply that Radwulf will become cop&doctor at the same time after the real doctor dies, then (a) we do not know if that is true (e.g. his original NTA might get replaced by the original doctor's NTA), and (b) that is not necessarily unbalanced in a game where many people claim that Moxy could indeed be a town-aligned Security Chief with entire two NTAs at once.

Facts:
1. Radwulf was instrumental in all the 3 deaths of of security guards.
He basically ynched Moxy (with the lynch campaign of all lynch campaigns) and Trigardon (cast the last bandwagon instant vote) and targeted Stringer at night (inplied fact, if you believe he is indeed maffia) based on Stringers previous posts where he defended the role of a security guard.

Can you explain the bolded part? Where does the "implied fact" arise from?

And trying to discourage people from casting more bandwagon votes against Radwulf:

Is it a coincidence that these people this far have voted against all of Moxy, Trigardon and radwulf?
- Phox
- Princess.ruxi
- SilveXtru
- Mary

These people have voted for Moxy and Trigardon, but not yet for radwulf: MrWaffles, Nanaa. I will not be surprised to see them pile on.

Rene has voted against Trigardon and radwulf, but was forced to remove his vote from Moxy in the last moment.

Towards the end it looked like everything stablized, and Radwulf looked safe for a while:

phox: unvoted Radwulf 2h05min before deadline.
Princess.ruxi: unvoted Radwulf 1h29min before deadline.
<--- Radwulf is at 6/9 votes required for lynch; as the time kept ticking out, it seemed increasingly likely that he was going to survive the day.
valli: voted against Radwulf 20min before deadline.
Nanaa: voted against Radwulf 13min before deadline.
Gridfon: attempted to stop the lynch 10min before deadline.
valli: submitted a post 7min before deadline.
Sander: voted against Radwulf 3min before deadline.
Nanaa: submitted a post 3min before deadline.

The curious bandwagon 20 min before the end of the day forced me to make a snap decision on whether I should stop the lynch, and I went for it. I had no time to write role declaration, neither it was required to stop the lynch (see common sense analysis in #997), and it would also greatly hurt my chances to survive the night. Either way, anyone casting lynch votes 20 min before the end and asking me to declare role in order to believe me - are likely mafia members trying to get the most out of the lost lynch opportunity. The right decision is very clear for town people regardless of my role and my affiliation (again see #997).

In my eyes, the only reason why you would claim to have evidence - after 3 days - which you won't share, is when you are mafia.

@Gridfon why did you wait until there were 10 more minutes to deadline in order to save radwulf?

The explanation is very obvious once you know that I seem to have an investigative role able to just outright clear Radwulf (with many disclaimers about uncertainty with multiple factions, me having a crazy detective role, and what not). You already know that I implied to have a role of this type. So I don't know why I'm even explaining this to you. This is mafia 101 regarding the behavior of a strong detective-styled role.

[Clemens]

I'd like to point out this contradiction of how the vote-force NTA is explained to work by two seperate players.

Just got a email from the big boss and he said I had to vote that way and had no choice in the matter. Regardless of him being dead and all I asked specifically. I'm simply not allowed to ignore it.

[...]I went on to push for @Trigardon . Then I got informed by the mod that my vote has to stay on @Trigardon as someone forced me over night to do so and the email didn't reach me. @Trigardon was killed and I could freely vote again. (Clarified that with the mod).

@Bombaclaat is saying he has no choice but to vote for a dead person.
But @valli is saying that once the person is dead you no longer have to vote for that person.

[Clemens]

@Clemens i resent the fact that I don't exist in your post. I mean I even said hello this morning and didn't get a reply.

Hello Noni. It has been a while.
But I imagine not getting my explicit attention would be considered a fortunate event.

[Gridfon]

Who - when radwulf does not have enough votes to be lynched - decides to cover for him, with just his word. When he knows he’s not trusted. When someone you don’t trust, gives his word about someone else. You Lynch to person. That’s simple as it is.

Whether you trusted me or not - was completely irrelevant at the end of Day 2, and I reflected it in my post #997. Even if you thought that I was a mafia player trying to defend an innocent to gain some trust (it's extremely stupid, but it was suggested by Clemens, so I'll entertain this possibility) - it still does not mean that you should lynch the innocent just in spite of me.

There is no scenario in which lynching Radwulf was a gamble worth taking.

[EscapedConvict]

looks like I have the misfortune of it being @EscapedConvict and if that’s correct then he’s just single-handedly decided to damage townie numbers further. EC I find it hard to believe that Daemon would answer questions about other players to you, since his rules are very clear and you say you haven’t got an investigative NTA. Given your track record I think this is another grossly misguided theory on your part.

Misguided? Why would I do this if I were a townie? Makes no sense like someone else said.

I have to be convinced you're mafia and I am because it was confirned by the moderator and Daemon clearly said in his initial role email that you were currupted/taken over/infected (yes, he used the word that phox used) . I'm trying to avoid using it because I feel its very telling. Maybe its silly of me but don't want to break rules.

You just confirmed I am telling the truth about us being twins.

Anyone that believes I am telling the truth and that I am a townie has to believe that I am not lying about Daemon confirming that I play for the town and Mary the mafia.

You either believe that or you have to believe I am mafia but then you have to explain why do this whole thing.

You can't have both Mary, to claim I am a missguided toenie that is trying to kill 2 yownies (me and you) and yo not believe I tell the truth about the emails.
And thats when your scum logic breaks once again.

Anyways, I'd like to hear a role from MrWaffles too even though I have the feeling he's very eager to give it (Siderite actually beginning to make sense in his posts today when he said the same about MrWaffles in #1025 ). First one (#1022) cracked me up. This guy.

Unvote Escaped Convict (to kill off Mary) (temporarily)

Vote MrWaffles

If we can rally the townies, we can get two important things done today and possibly lynch 2 mafia and sacirfice one townie (myself) in return (2 if you consider princess who will die tonight too, which is a shame since she has been active and very coheremt thus far)
I stilk think the trade off is worth it since I do believe Mary CAN infect others. Only makes sense that way otherwise why would Daemon spun a story about testing vaccines against viruses to me and then tell she's been taken over + the fact that we now know people die after being infected. Its how mafia kills in this game.
If Mary the infected corrupted twin doesn't infect others then who does?

[EscapedConvict]

Oh the convenience of typing from a phone screen comes with such pitfalls.
Please ignore the spelling mistakes in the above post and replace the wrong letters or words as necessary.
Thank you

[Noni]

@Clemens i resent the fact that I don't exist in your post. I mean I even said hello this morning and didn't get a reply.

Hello Noni. It has been a while.
But I imagine not getting my explicit attention would be considered a fortunate event.

Still a hello would have been nice

[phox]

I've been reading along as a neutral up to this point - not having planned to join in - but here I am having rushed through the excessive amount of posts to catch up in time.
From my understanding, I replaced Pelasgi 1:1.
Time for a belated first post.
(For the record, one of those guests you guys were paranoid about was me reading along without actually having an account yet.)

@Gridfon I bet you were giddy all night at the prospect of finally throwing down with me again, old pal.
As for your enquiry:
- I would not have thought @Moxy was evil, just overeager in a very clumsy way - but I do know Moxy from elsewhere, and this was classic Moxy.

- @Trigardon was unfortunate.

- I would likely have voted for @Radwulf myself, since his playstyle was foolishly aggressive, arrogant, and short-sighted - he got multiple townies lynched with no remorse and wanted to prevent joe's potential death revealing any clues (which fortunately failed). I didn't believe the way he presented his role, but which now turns out was true. I even would have thought he might be a third party (because of his insights that no one else seemed to have) with limited time available (because of his almost desperate demeanor to rush things done, despite being convinced himself that his role is vitally important). He kept bringing up a "zombie infection"-conspiracy and "guards are evil faction"-conspiracy too vehemently. But, alas, he was telling the truth about himself so throw that theory out of the window. I believe "Nurse", and his NTA, are townie. But I also believe, with joe's death confirmed, he hadn't fully grasped how his NTA actually works.

- The loud active ones (most of them are dead by now and turned out townie) are a lot less interesting to me than the ones contributing just enough to not get noticed yet not too little to be considered observing. Primarily I've noticed that @Gridfon would always contribute with some logic to make sure the ball was rolling in the direction he wanted without getting his own hands dirty. He had an active part in getting Moxy killed, despite knowing classic Moxy as well. And poked at the D2 fires just enough to keep them going without having to do much himself - to then conveniently have some kind of evidence that Radwulf is townie at the last moments so he could claim points the next day. At the same time he, allegedly, revealed important information about his possible role - making himself a target for the night - which seemed very foolish considering he didn't actually give us anything to actually convince anyone to drop the Radwulf bandwagon. I don't remember Gridfon being a foolish, impulsive man who would put himself at such risk with no actual gain; he's more calculated than that. Which has me believe that he hasn't actually put himself at risk. Combine that with the aforementioned subtle nudges into his desired directions and I currently can't see anything other than scum lurking behind his words.

- Then there is @princess.ruxi who isn't loud either, but always eager to be a part of the bandwagon train as long as it doesn't get her too much attention.

- @Mary pops in once in a while to pitch in and disappear again. We've been told it's because of a busy work schedule, fair enough. But perhaps it's not just her real life schedule, but also deliberate. She's one of the veterans, she'd know what she's doing.

- @EC attempts to contribute actively, but sometimes it feels like he attempts too hard. As for the role "twin" that he claimed, it sticks out to not fit categorically to any of the confirmed roles so far. I've never played with a role description like that so I don't know what to think about it at this point.

- @Siterite uh, what?

- @phox has appeared to have a pro-town demeanor going on with some extra bits of charm.

- If @Bombaclaat is telling the truth, this would imply that the vote-force NTA is more likely not a Mafia role, since there would be no point in forcing someone to vote for someone they know will not survive the night. But mind you, rendering his vote useless is not a big deal since it's not like he has contributed anything so far anyway.

- @Sander and @Rene have been decently active - as long as you don't compare them to overeager Moxy, Radwulf, and EC - with swings in both directions.

- @zero has been all over the place. At times seemingly very immature and at other times aggressively trying to prove a point that has no chance of being proven.

- A lot of quiet and/or inactive players that haven't really done anything. I've been told the quiet ones are usually either scum or useless. So there's that.

- I believe the secruity guards are not Mafia and most likely townie of some sort, but don't ask me for specifics. Moxy misplayed badly and struck a decisive blow to that group with the help of his eager lynchers.

- I believe the Mafia kills by infecting players, which then slowly die as shown by joesatri. Which begs the question, do they infect every night? If so, when was joe infected and how long does it take for the infection to actually kill someone? Questions that most of us can't answer and the other portion won't.

- I don't know if "Infected Gardner" is Mafia, but considering that all other roles so far had a distinct lack of "infected" in front of their names, I would assume this is our first lead into an evil faction of sorts.


There are many directions to go. EC vs Mary, for one. Silent players, another. Players that have lynched Moxy and/or Radwulf are an option. Or the players that wanted to dispose of joesatri before evidence of how he was going to die could be confirmed.

So, having said all that,@phox, after your monologue purely intended to show us that you're not ignoring the EC vs Mary thing going on but would rather not focus on it, who are you actually going after?

Hello there @Clemens great to have you with us and so active already from your first day. Your post is nice and helpful, but I don't agree with what you said about some players:

1. I do not agree with what you said about @zero , I am quite neutral about him and he hasn't done anything too grave to lead me to believe he is a baddie, sure there was one post where he wrote a sentence 10 times , but that was probably a joke to annoy @Noni .

2. As for what you said about @Princess.ruxi , I COMPLETELY disagree, she is the one that I consider has made most sense throughout the game and has brought forward some really valid points.

3. Why are you putting @Sander and @Rene in the same boat, when Sander has done much more to look suspicous and he was the one to have the final decision on getting Joesatri lynched a couple of minutes before the day ended? It seems to me like you are putting them in the same boat to try to get Sander a bit more in the clear, without a valid reason. I don't know enough about Rene, he hasn't been that active.

4. Regarding who I am "going after" : well I think it would be good to start with the last minte lynchers of radwulf and also with a role declaration from @MrWaffles (stop stalling please ). After we reach some conclusions we are happy about and act on them as a town we can focus on the whole @EscapedConvict vs @Mary but I really don't want to repeat yesterday's mistakes and waste so much time again.

@Gridfon thanks for the detailed posts that have brought forward and reminded me of important info.

[phox]

@MrWaffles maybe this will motivate you : vote MrWaffles

[phox]

If seven people (33% of the people still around) ask for a role claim from me, I will be happy to give one.

I would like to know your role. I hope it's real and not one that you've carefully prepared and can wait to test. Wake up my friend and realize the wrong you hide, truth will reveal.

Maybe @Siderite 's role is forced to always append poetic gibberish or riddles along to his actual messages, in order to make him lose credibility? It's just a thought, but sometimes he makes sense and sometimes it's nada.

[Princess.ruxi]

Regards to my role, have volunteered to be in a cutting edge programme so they can study the effect of mild bugs and infections given my interesting physiology. I have a limited NTA that has 1 use, and that is to try and identify the player I have such a strong connection with (this is all paraphrased by the way). I’m guessing this is so I don’t end up voting for this person and inadvertently killing myself given our very strong connection. I haven’t used it so far because I did not want to waste it, but it looks like I have the misfortune of it being @EscapedConvict and if that’s correct then he’s just single-handedly decided to damage townie numbers further. EC I find it hard to believe that Daemon would answer questions about other players to you, since his rules are very clear and you say you haven’t got an investigative NTA. Given your track record I think this is another grossly misguided theory on your part.

Now, why would EC do what he did if he is lying? Doesn't seem like a good mafia strategy.

[MrWaffles]

That is seven votes for revealing my NTA: Princess.ruxi, zero, Emilly, Siderite, Noni, EscapedConvict, and phox. So here goes:

I am not infected, but I am indeed the cook. My NTA is I can give food poisoning to one player each night by using spoiled food to make their meal. This normally results in the player not being able to vote for 24 hours. I don't myself know what the exceptions to "normally" are, by the way.

I targeted joesatri on Night 1, Noni on Night 2, and Sander on Night 3. Below are my reasons:
1) I picked joesatri on Night 1 at random. As I said before, I don't know when my NTA does not work and wanted to see the effects. Also, I felt at the beginning of the game that not lynching is a better strategy when we don't have enough info (although in the end I joined in Moxy's lynch).
2) I picked Noni on Night 2 because despite all her points and arguments, she threw her vote away on zero on the first day. On the second day, she revealed that she had been forced to vote for zero, but by that time I had already submitted my NTA.
3) I picked Sander on Night 3 because he was the deciding vote in lynching radwulf. I did not know if radwulf was innocent or guilty, but I did not like that we lynched him/her when the nurse could have been a very important role for finding Mafia (and I believe I mentioned this in an earlier post).

I realise that some people feel that vote blocking has to be a Mafia ability. However, I would like to point out that lynching has killed more innocent people so far than night kills. Still, as I have not played this game before, I cannot really weigh in more on whether vote blocking is always evil.

Also, I would like to point out that I could have easily said that I had gone to investigate Noni, rather than to vote-block her, as Princess.ruxi only knows who visits whom. However, I think that dishonestly is just going to make the game harder for the town (which may have been a mistake that Moxy made).

Please let me know what else you would like to know.

-MrWaffles

Edit: "Did not know until after the lynch if radwulf was innocent or guilty"