Mafia 1 - The CROWN - POST GAME

Guilt is a numbers game.
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Mary
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#101

Post by Mary »

Noni wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 10:49 pm
many thanks to @EscapedConvict and @joesatri who helped us get rid of radwulf. could not have done it without them
Yes, this was too good to pass up. Couldn't quite believe it, especially since it was mostly townies on his bandwagon πŸ˜‚

Sander
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#102

Post by Sander »

Noni wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 10:52 pm
Poor DAEMON. We were sending more than 150 emails back and forth every night:)))))
He still had time to bother me to send in targets other than myself :p So don’t worry.

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Noni
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#103

Post by Noni »

going to bed. i'm sure i'll spend 4 h of my shift tomorrow reading comments and posting more stuff. because this is my life now apparently

good night and good playing with you all!!!! THANKS daemon

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Daemon
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#104

Post by Daemon »

Posted the roles and all, after this post:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20&p=3658#p3600

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EscapedConvict
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#105

Post by EscapedConvict »

Noni wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 10:54 pm
going to bed. i'm sure i'll spend 4 h of my shift tomorrow reading comments and posting more stuff. because this is my life now apparently

good night and good playing with you all!!!! THANKS daemon
Thanks for all the chuckles and laughs! :D
You amd @Bombaclaat

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phox
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#106

Post by phox »

@Daemon thanks for making this awesome game for us, you rock! ❀️

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Noni
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#107

Post by Noni »

EscapedConvict wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 10:58 pm
Noni wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 10:54 pm
going to bed. i'm sure i'll spend 4 h of my shift tomorrow reading comments and posting more stuff. because this is my life now apparently

good night and good playing with you all!!!! THANKS daemon
Thanks for all the chuckles and laughs! :D
You amd @Bombaclaat
Yeah we're getting fake married after this

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Mary
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#108

Post by Mary »

Noni wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 11:02 pm
EscapedConvict wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 10:58 pm
Noni wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 10:54 pm
going to bed. i'm sure i'll spend 4 h of my shift tomorrow reading comments and posting more stuff. because this is my life now apparently

good night and good playing with you all!!!! THANKS daemon
Thanks for all the chuckles and laughs! :D
You amd @Bombaclaat
Yeah we're getting fake married after this
Zero can be your maid of honour, I won't mind πŸ˜‚

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Mary
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#109

Post by Mary »

Just read the roles, so the crazy faction had 3 kills in total and there could have been 2 vigilante viral attacks. That would have made things even more confusing. If was already confusing when all the kills were coming from our side :)

@Daemon these are impressive dynamics! So when is your next game? :D

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Daemon
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#110

Post by Daemon »

Mary wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 11:15 pm
@Daemon So when is your next game? :D
Yes.

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EscapedConvict
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#111

Post by EscapedConvict »

Mary wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 11:15 pm
Just read the roles, so the crazy faction had 3 kills in total and there could have been 2 vigilante viral attacks. That would have made things even more confusing. If was already confusing when all the kills were coming from our side :)

@Daemon these are impressive dynamics! So when is your next game? :D
I was going to check his math but I quickly decided against it! :D

Epic game,for sure, @Daemon !

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Daemon
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#112

Post by Daemon »

EscapedConvict wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 11:31 pm
Mary wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 11:15 pm
Just read the roles, so the crazy faction had 3 kills in total and there could have been 2 vigilante viral attacks. That would have made things even more confusing. If was already confusing when all the kills were coming from our side :)

@Daemon these are impressive dynamics! So when is your next game? :D
I was going to check his math but I quickly decided against it! :D

Epic game,for sure, @Daemon !
Thanks!
#neveragain

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behemoth
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#113

Post by behemoth »

behemoth is devastated.. I was at work and by the time I was able to get on, it was all over :(

Great game everyone and a big thanks to Daemon for being our masterful master of ceremonies!

Now I won't know what do with myself and the spare, adrenaline-free time I suddenly have.. Sparta anyone? :D

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behemoth
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#114

Post by behemoth »

Noni wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 10:19 pm
oh i can't wait for @behemoth to get confirmation she was right all along:)))))
Well I can't say I'm surprised:))) You played a great game though, the victory was well deserved :)

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EscapedConvict
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#115

Post by EscapedConvict »

behemoth wrote: ↑
Tue May 05, 2020 1:09 am
Now I won't know what do with myself and the spare, adrenaline-free time I suddenly have.. Sparta anyone? :D
Well since you're 5 minutes away our lawn needs a trim :D

But yeah, we need to get @radwulf going

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behemoth
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#116

Post by behemoth »

Haha not anymore I’m not, but then what will you do with all that free time :D

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Princess.ruxi
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#117

Post by Princess.ruxi »

Daemon wrote: ↑
Tue May 05, 2020 12:19 am
EscapedConvict wrote: ↑
Mon May 04, 2020 11:31 pm
I was going to check his math but I quickly decided against it! :D

Epic game,for sure, @Daemon !
Thanks!
#neveragain
Image
We'll give you a few days to recover. But remember! You started it @Daemon ! By your own will!

Rene
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#118

Post by Rene »

Final thoughts:

We could always turn on Waffles' because of suspicious NTA.
Zero&Bombaclaat were really obvious, it's impossible for me grasp how other townies let Bombaclaat pass even after I revealed and begged to put him up, literally. Noni&Skuggi would give a good game ending to us for sure. Town messed up big time wasting D5 (+me, because i wasn't online 24/7 and kept missing deadlines one after another.I just logged in to find the game over, I thought the game was going to continue tonight.)

Anyways, ggs. Good work with flavor and design @Daemon.

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Princess.ruxi
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#119

Post by Princess.ruxi »

Finally had time to read the roles, descriptions and NTAs.
Poor @joesatri came to the CROWN with a flu, got food poisoning night 1 and corona night 2.
He was a dead man walking! :lol:
Could you BE more unlucky???

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Daemon
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#120

Post by Daemon »

Princess.ruxi wrote: ↑
Tue May 05, 2020 12:14 pm
Finally had time to read the roles, descriptions and NTAs.
One can tell you're used to reading walls of text :P.

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valli
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#121

Post by valli »

I have to say it again!!!

I blame @Moxy for everything. :D :D

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Mary
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#122

Post by Mary »

Just wanted to give a shout out to @MrWaffles ,for not only being the most polite but for also coming up with the idea to infect @joesatri via switcheroo. Genius πŸ‘

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Noni
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#123

Post by Noni »

Mary wrote: ↑
Tue May 05, 2020 10:15 pm
Just wanted to give a shout out to @MrWaffles ,for not only being the most polite but for also coming up with the idea to infect @joesatri via switcheroo. Genius πŸ‘
We are hoping to lynch you tonight at 7,please can you let us know if that is a convenient time for you?

-MrWaffles

Genius!

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Princess.ruxi
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#124

Post by Princess.ruxi »

Noni wrote: ↑
Tue May 05, 2020 11:48 pm
Mary wrote: ↑
Tue May 05, 2020 10:15 pm
Just wanted to give a shout out to @MrWaffles ,for not only being the most polite but for also coming up with the idea to infect @joesatri via switcheroo. Genius πŸ‘
We are hoping to lynch you tonight at 7,please can you let us know if that is a convenient time for you?

-MrWaffles

Genius!
Yeah, I was expecting a "Most polite player" award for Waffles. That's how he managed to survive even after I exposed him!

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#125

Post by MrWaffles »

:D

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#126

Post by radwulf »

In the town's defense, I think our chances were very slim from the start. Even with the delayed/decelerated night kill rate of evil factions, a ratio of 12 evil out of 28 players (0.43) is extremely high. My understanding of game design is that evil/total ratio MUST be between 1/4 and 1/3. Here we were closer to 1/2 than 1/3 on night 1, coupled with a 1/3 deadline lynch rule. Losing the game after 4 innocent/5 evil lynches (discounting the EC/Mary special case) in a 28 player game is pretty harsh.

A few words on theory. Early cop-like claims should be given the benefit of the doubt and time to verify. The situation changes when mafia is close to parity; then townies should be on the lookout for mafia making game-winning claims. At that point, more than ever, behavior trumps claims, roles, night-mechanics etc.

To clarify an in-game comment that was misunderstood. By game definition, mafia members are forced to invent a false thought process. Every time they say "I thought", "I felt", "I wanted"--it is a lie. The core of the game as townie is to seek out evidence of this falseness, and to display and explain one's own thoughts clearly and transparently for the benefit of the town.

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Noni
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#127

Post by Noni »

radwulf wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 12:36 pm
In the town's defense, I think our chances were very slim from the start. Even with the delayed/decelerated night kill rate of evil factions, a ratio of 12 evil out of 28 players (0.43) is extremely high. My understanding of game design is that evil/total ratio MUST be between 1/4 and 1/3. Here we were closer to 1/2 than 1/3 on night 1, coupled with a 1/3 deadline lynch rule. Losing the game after 4 innocent/5 evil lynches (discounting the EC/Mary special case) in a 28 player game is pretty harsh.

A few words on theory. Early cop-like claims should be given the benefit of the doubt and time to verify. The situation changes when mafia is close to parity; then townies should be on the lookout for mafia making game-winning claims. At that point, more than ever, behavior trumps claims, roles, night-mechanics etc.

To clarify an in-game comment that was misunderstood. By game definition, mafia members are forced to invent a false thought process. Every time they say "I thought", "I felt", "I wanted"--it is a lie. The core of the game as townie is to seek out evidence of this falseness, and to display and explain one's own thoughts clearly and transparently for the benefit of the town.
No :)

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Daemon
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#128

Post by Daemon »

Multiple factions are supposed to kill each other along with the town. It's just that we had multiple lynches. That did make for a once-in-a-lifetime 3rd day though.

Psychos could have killed Noni in N3 but decided to wait. Attrition war and all that. They all died that day.

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#129

Post by Clemens »

Psychos and Mafia are not allies, so in theory they could have killed one another.
It just so happened that the psychos were all killed in one go during the multi-lynch festival of 2020 before they accomplished anything. :D

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Noni
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#130

Post by Noni »

Daemon wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 4:12 pm
Multiple factions are supposed to kill each other along with the town. It's just that we had multiple lynches. That did make for a once-in-a-lifetime 3rd day though.

Psychos could have killed Noni in N3 but decided to wait. Attrition war and all that. They all died that day.
You snooze you lose

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Noni
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#131

Post by Noni »

@Daemon can you tell I'm practicing my spartan wit posting for @radwulf 's game

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EscapedConvict
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#132

Post by EscapedConvict »

Clemens wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 4:34 pm
Psychos and Mafia are not allies, so in theory they could have killed one another.
It just so happened that the psychos were all killed in one go during the multi-lynch festival of 2020 before they accomplished anything. :D
Yeah, that will be a good story to tell the grand kids. The doomsday of all mafia doomsdays.

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Daemon
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#133

Post by Daemon »

Noni wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 5:34 pm
@Daemon can you tell I'm practicing my spartan wit posting for @radwulf 's game
Why?

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Noni
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#134

Post by Noni »

Daemon wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 7:16 pm
Noni wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 5:34 pm
@Daemon can you tell I'm practicing my spartan wit posting for @radwulf 's game
Why?
To practice is to win
To win is to conquer
To conquer is to live

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Daemon
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#135

Post by Daemon »

Noni wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 8:10 pm
Daemon wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 7:16 pm
Noni wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 5:34 pm
@Daemon can you tell I'm practicing my spartan wit posting for @radwulf 's game
Why?
To practice is to win
To win is to conquer
To conquer is to live
And to live?

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Noni
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#136

Post by Noni »

Daemon wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 8:14 pm
Noni wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 8:10 pm
Daemon wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 7:16 pm


Why?
To practice is to win
To win is to conquer
To conquer is to live
And to live?
To live is to practice. Obviously

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Daemon
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#137

Post by Daemon »

Noni wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 8:14 pm
Daemon wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 8:14 pm
Noni wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 8:10 pm


To practice is to win
To win is to conquer
To conquer is to live
And to live?
To live is to practice. Obviously
Are loops purpose?

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Noni
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#138

Post by Noni »

Daemon wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 8:19 pm
Noni wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 8:14 pm
Daemon wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 8:14 pm


And to live?
To live is to practice. Obviously
Are loops purpose?
To understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.

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Daemon
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#139

Post by Daemon »

Noni wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 8:32 pm
Daemon wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 8:19 pm
Noni wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 8:14 pm


To live is to practice. Obviously
Are loops purpose?
To understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.
Even recursion ends.

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phox
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#140

Post by phox »

Best case scenario with the exit clause, worst case scenario with stack overflow.

radwulf
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#141

Post by radwulf »

Clemens wrote: ↑
Wed May 06, 2020 4:34 pm
Psychos and Mafia are not allies, so in theory they could have killed one another.
It just so happened that the psychos were all killed in one go during the multi-lynch festival of 2020 before they accomplished anything. :D
Yes, but statistically they're both more likely to kill townies, especially in the beginning of the game.

I just want to make moderators aware that the evil/total ratio is the most important game design decision they make. I've played and modded many dozens of games, and almost always a high ratio in a multiple clan setup soon leads to daytime discussions in the twilight zone, with a handful of bewildered townies wondering what the heck happened to the laws of the universe (logic, in particular).

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#142

Post by MrWaffles »

radwulf wrote: ↑
Fri May 08, 2020 1:34 am
I just want to make moderators aware that the evil/total ratio is the most important game design decision they make. I've played and modded many dozens of games, and almost always a high ratio in a multiple clan setup soon leads to daytime discussions in the twilight zone, with a handful of bewildered townies wondering what the heck happened to the laws of the universe (logic, in particular).
I think 9 Mafia plus 3 psycho vs. 16 town is a bit misleading though. Escaped Convict should have tried to get himself lynched much sooner, which would have changed the dynamic to 8:3:15. Also, Heffie was never entirely on our side, which makes the ratio a further 7:3:15 (+1 somewhere depending on Heffie's ultimate win condition).

Plus, Mary, Emilly, and Heffie did not have NTAs, which made Mafia a bit weaker than expected. Given how many strong investigators there were (valli, radwulf, Gridfon, and Telvek) someone probably would have been found out and instant lynched each day if things worked smoothly.

Edit: Not to forget all the other investigators such as Princess.ruxi and joesatri either...

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#143

Post by MrWaffles »

By the way, although I said this earlier mainly to gain trust, I honestly don't think the town did itself any favors by rushing to lynch the first day (or maybe even the second day). With that instant lynch option always available (and a lot of active players alive in the beginning), it would have gone better to have a higher standard of proof for suspicious activities.

Between town and Mafia, we ended up killing a lot of the most engaged players early on (for example Moxy and then Radwulf). They could have been critical for puzzling through issues and meeting the instant lynch bar later in the game. I know that people did not like each other's style, but I genuinely think it was not an acceptable reason to kill for.

That being said, Telvek was the only person who could have uncovered the psychos through investigation, and he was rather inactive. As the psychos had incredibly dangerous NTAs, it may have been good in that case that the town had a low bar for lynching. I still don't understand why Siderite gave himself away through the way he talked (as that was not required in his role description). I also don't think that blissie should have defied the town or Nanaa should have admitted to be part of an anti-science third faction.

Clemens
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#144

Post by Clemens »

radwulf wrote: ↑
Fri May 08, 2020 1:34 am
Yes, but statistically they're both more likely to kill townies, especially in the beginning of the game.
Indeed, if they murder at random throughout the game.
Sooner or later the psychos would have had to cooperate with the townies to actually kill some mafia as well.
If they don't manage to do so, townies would definitely have a harder time.

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