Mafia 1 - The CROWN - GAME OVER!

[Heffie]

My defense:
- voted only to lynch the guilty

By the way, I double checked, and you were indeed part of the vote to lynch Trigardon on post #746 (and again, so was I). I believe he turned out to be a Security Guard.

I believe that faction was anti-town. If you don't, then you got me on the one person.

@Gridfon I'm literally tired of the long posts and have nothing to add. My role name bolded by the mod "researcher" the environmental microbiology bit was in the description. Going to bed now.

[Rene]

So, I just woke up. A new day means a new wall of text for you! At least to my select audience, as only a few seems to be bothering with reading my posts anyways. We'll continue having my readers translate my thoughts to you just fine, when necessary, as it already is the case.

I'm not going to count out mafia's potential ability to recruit members, as easily @Gridfon. It's the best explanation I have for the quiet nights, because no one is claiming to have survived or diverted an attack at Day-time so far. It's Day 4. Four nights have already happened, with 2 lethal infections. Unless Mafia consciously chose to skip two nights, they might have added two extra members to their ranks.

But accepting this possibility comes with a great risk, in the shape of acknowledging Mafia can have REAL town NTA wills, belonging before the time they were converted, and that just puts us at a huge difficulty. Maybe even too difficult, given the game balance. Which means any one of us, potentially, can be mafia. Except Clemens, if claim is true, of course. If Mafia can convert, then infection immunity roles are given much more reasoning behind them. Even I might be converted to one of them tonight, despite doing my absolute earnest to prove myself today. And that could potentially be disastrous for the town. This is all food for thought to keep in mind, carrying on.

Back to the @Heffie debacle.

Believe it or not @Valli, but my post was the first one to point out that Heffie's immunity claim contradicts with mafia's only kill method. But you wouldn't know that. (You're too busy with typing false accusations, and not busy enough with reading instead.)

However, now that Heffie has backpedaled, the claim and abilities make even less sense to me. I could settle for a late activated role, but Heffie essentially had no tools/no use all game. (And here I thought my role was boring, all along.) Barring the Behemoth testimony that was never shared or hinted on Daytime, up until now, a time Behemoth doesn't necessarily need it, but when Heffie desperately needs Behemoth's help in return. I'm not saying this incriminates Behemoth, because it doesn't. But I'm taking it as what it is, a cry for help.

However, (Look guys, this theory is interesting. Don't skip it @Valli. You might like it.) If I were to be mafia and I was sending messages to Heffie with no repercussions to follow them. It's just blackmailing at night with no real consequences at daytime, anyways. Why would I just send them random town names? Whereas I could tell them to vote one mafia, as I can't control them anyways if they do or don't, which could alleviate the suspicions about a mafia member at least! So if Emilly or whoever made that call decided that whenever Heffie came up with their reveal. Or even better! Died somehow after it, preferably by a lynch and proved to be innocent. Now, that'd be the PERFECT cover for Heffie's list to be less suspicious to the town. Wouldn't it?

Yes, we know they didn't take that route, apparently, since Siderite and ruxi were also in the mentions. But what if Behemoth's name wasn't dropped in vain, unlike the other two? That's all assuming Heffie is innocent, which I disbelieve anyways.

That's my take on the Heffie's claims. Now back to something else that we've slept on:

The Valli-Emilly role overlap issue

Valli and Emilly had identical role names, NTAs and the information that were returned by their NTA. I was the first person to bring this up, it is literally impossible unless Mafia has a way of figuring out other people's NTAs and wills. Yet it doesn't seem to be the case. As we've only gone through this with ONE role, so far.

Doesn't that strike you as curious? @Gridfon

What I'm getting at is what if Mafia forged one claim to be claimed by two different mafia members, so they can claim against each other at the moment that one of them is doomed to be lynched. Which was the case, with Emilly because the main argument was Clemens' finding, not Valli's revelation, which was given AFTER Clemens' put Emilly up.

So both of them being mafia doesn't strike me as an out of the world possibility, no. Not at all. It's infact quite likely. It's my only other explanation to KNOW about the role and the abilities, if we disregard the copycat NTA, that was only used once this far. I'm open to discussions about how on earth this might have happened. But if nobody convinces me to another possibility, my take will stay as this.

Thank you for bearing with my thoughts, if you've read this far.

P.S: @Sander You're an absolute madman.

[phox]

3 hours and a can of PringIes later I finally finished reading through all the posts. #whatAmIDoingWithMaLife

First off: unvote Rene , as we have bigger fish to fry currently.
PS @Rene : you are being sketchy for trying to throw suspicion on me as I openly and transparently disclosed my role which nobody had any problems with. In addition, valli said I was clean. You saying @valli is suspicios (aka one of the persons who brought the most significant evidence against Emily) makes you even more suspicious. (I believe this not-so-bright little idea caught on to you from @Clemens, who at least had the courtesy to admit it was a weak/ flimsy theory) Regardless, I said I was busy today so don't expect me to drop everything so I can unvote you, in the exact moment you start crying and throwing fits about it, maybe you are 5 after all.

Anyways, what I noticed:

About my role, I'm a researcher and specifically in the field of environmental biology. I go around in a hazmat suit all the time

1. @Heffie you helped us a lot and you read and reread the posts quite a few times, BUT right now, it seems like you are covering your mistakes with an alleged email reply from the mod....you said in your role declaration that you wear your hazmat suit all the time and now after your talk with daemon you apparently only wore it once? So you were immune to attacks only once and you are actually simple townie but you didn't know it?
... this doesn't add up.

Another thing that does not add up: what do you mean you didn't ask the mod how you would die and how the blackmailers can kill you?
If I were you, it would have been the first thing I would have asked.
Seems to me like you don't know your role as well as you should. "I helped the mafia BUT only a little bit so that they don't kill me BUT then again it would have been ok with me to die for not respecting ALL the orders they gave me, if that meant I would help the town a bit on the side while I was partially listening to their orders" ??

Then there's the whole confusion you made about mafia being able /not being able to infect you because of your hazmat suit.
I really wish I could believe you, but sadly... I don't. not anymore at least.

Moving on to @Clemens
2. I am highly disturbed by the fact that you chose to ignore some very valid points @MrWaffles brought, (correct me if I am wrong please, after all it's 3 am here):

Right now we may need to determine truth about Heffie or Clemens. Personally I am currently a bit more suspicious about Clemens, because an overactive immune system and resulting inflammation is what kills people with COVID19 (again it's called cytokine storm). I am pretty sure that was already known about COVID19 when Daemon first assigned us roles

Let's face it, Daemon is super smart, and he has been doing his research (we have the L/S strain examples to prove that he is well documented) so then why would he make a mistake as this one? strikes me as utterly odd.

[phox]

Lynch Clemens and Heffie. I don't trust either of them. Heffie has given me a bad vibe since the start. But Clemens is playing the innocent follower when it comes to voting and that's nothing like him. Bobbe is his pet follower. He leads.
[...]

Concerning @Clemens, like @Sander mentions above, I am also not used to a such passive @Clemens, that is actually something I am thinking the last couple of days. Furthermore why would Daemon replace one role,if that role wouldn't be very important. Right now I do not see the importance of Clemens role ... so that's fishy again... others have not been replaced.

Concerning @Heffie:

@Heffie, if your orders were to vote for Princess.ruxi and Siderite on D2, and you were afraid that the Mafia would punish you for disobeying, why didn't you vote for Siderite?

And when you didn't and nothing happened to you, why didn't you realise their threat to you was empty?

So you were afraid, but were not afraid? And you cannot be killed but you could be killed? WTF, seriously this sounds like NONESENSE ...

Conerning @Rene:

Did the sun burn your had too much, one useless cocky post after another for the whole day. Please go to bed and leave us in peace. I am looking forward on our appointment at the end of the day. I feel like @Noni with you ...

Summary:
I am stuck between voting Heffie or Clemens...

you're funny @valli : )))
I am facing the same problem as you and @Noni regarding voting. I will vote tomorrow after some hours of sleep.

[Rene]

PS @Rene : you are being sketchy for trying to throw suspicion on me as I openly and transparently disclosed my role which nobody had any problems with.

My biggest problem with you is that you kept your vote in my despite it was in town's best interest to not do that. As explained by many others to those unable to understand that FACT on their own. Something you keep neglecting when defending yourself.

In addition, valli said I was clean.

More of a reason for me to not trust you both, truthfully.

You saying @valli is suspicios (aka one of the persons who brought the most significant evidence against Emily) makes you even more suspicious.

No, I'm not saying he's suspicious because he brought forth evidence. Because his reveal wasn't an evidence. (The most significant evidence was Noni vs Emilly contradiction, which Clemens brought forward.)

I'm saying he claimed the exact same role and THAT was never an evidence against Emilly. I can find my post, as I presented the very same argument on D3, as well. Just how do you explain the two of them have %100 the same roles to almost ALL details, except the strand bit. Same role name, same NTA, same return info "not infected vs infected." How on earth did that happen? I'm asking this question, but you aren't even reading what I'm saying and then take it up on yourself to answer it in an oblivious manner.

(I believe this not-so-bright little idea caught on to you from @Clemens, who at least had the courtesy to admit it was a weak/ flimsy theory)

As I said I brought it up on my own, I was the first to do so even in this case. Might be a surprise for you to realize not everyone relies on others' arguments to present a case.

In the exact moment you start crying and throwing fits about it, maybe you are 5 after all.

You're being extremely immature for a long time now, but I made my peace with the fact this is the kind of person we're dealing with.

[phox]

@Rene the only immature one here is you, the problem is you can't see it because of the immensity of your ego.
It's fine, you'll realize soon enough when the town deals with the heffie/clemens situation and they happily lynch one more annoying time consuming arrogant bloke.

PS nobody cares about your useless drama pointed towards me, so spare us the clutter.

[Rene]

@Rene the only immature one here is you, the problem is you can't see it because of the immensity of your ego.
It's fine, you'll realize soon enough when the town deals with the heffie/clemens situation and they happily lynch one more annoying time consuming arrogant bloke.

PS nobody cares about your useless drama pointed towards me, so spare us the clutter.

Yes, the excellent rhetoric of accusing people bringing valid logical points forth as being the one trying to clot the conversation. Whereas all you do is deflecting my arguments while simultaneously insulting me.

I've no need to be less alienating, I can point my fingers at all directions that make no sense to me and I've absolutely no fear as far as it's Day. This is going to be a huge shock for you to find out I'm saying the truth, however. I only wish I could be there, right by your side, only to see your face when that happens.

[Rene]

I don't want to digress the ongoing conversations with all my accusations though, that'd be counter active to my intention of keeping the things going. I'll drop by closer to end of this day and give you the DTA demonstration. Till then, I'll pick up a more observant stance and be quiet. As I can't even vote today.

[Gridfon]

So, I just woke up. A new day means a new wall of text for you!

Same. Same.

@Gridfon I'm literally tired of the long posts and have nothing to add. My role name bolded by the mod "researcher" the environmental microbiology bit was in the description. Going to bed now.

Question to everyone: how likely is it that Daemon made two different roles that are both called just a "Researcher"? To me, this seems to imply that either Gridfon or Heffie are lying, and we need lynch both until we determine which of them is mafia.

Barring the Behemoth testimony that was never shared or hinted on Daytime, up until now, a time Behemoth doesn't necessarily need it, but when Heffie desperately needs Behemoth's help in return. I'm not saying this incriminates Behemoth, because it doesn't. But I'm taking it as what it is, a cry for help.

Behemoth can only belong to mafia if either my NTA does not function, or if I belong to mafia myself. The former is unlikely; the latter is not true. See:

It would have been very convenient for Clemens and Behemoth to claim sister roles on the town side, while both being mafia. None of them claimed to have NTAs, so it would be hard to catch them lying about their night activity. So I checked Behemoth this night, and their room had no traces of infection.

----

And my role ist Expert virologist

ROLE DECLARATION
researcher, expert in virology

What I'm getting at is what if Mafia forged one claim to be claimed by two different mafia members, so they can claim against each other at the moment that one of them is doomed to be lynched. Which was the case, with Emilly because the main argument was Clemens' finding, not Valli's revelation, which was given AFTER Clemens' put Emilly up.

That is possible. But I do not understand what you mean in the following (especially the "copycat NTA" part), can you expand?

So both of them being mafia doesn't strike me as an out of the world possibility, no. Not at all. It's infact quite likely. It's my only other explanation to KNOW about the role and the abilities, if we disregard the copycat NTA, that was only used once this far. I'm open to discussions about how on earth this might have happened. But if nobody convinces me to another possibility, my take will stay as this.

[Gridfon]

I am a Researcher that went into the field of microbiology for the sole purpose of curing my own chronic infection, subjecting myself to various vaccines and cures. As a consequence, I am now left with a self-inflicted hyper-active immune system which comes with other health-related downsides.

What is your exact role name? Do you claim to be just a Researcher?

[Rene]

@Gridfon

If I jump in right away with my answer, I might spoil your play. But I feel like this is the perfect evidence.
Let me know if you rather hear from them first, or from me.

[behemoth]

Hm some very interesting developments have developed in my short absence... my thoughts and vote will follow shortly

[Sander]

P.S: @Sander You're an absolute madman.

Thanks!
I'd rather go for Clemens, but Heffie already has 2 votes and we are going no where near a Lynch.
unvote Rene vote Heffie


Oh and I held some intel back from last night, but since the day is ending tonight.

I really think we have a good chance here. Especially if the Mafia wasn't successful tonight.

Mafia was successful

As a result, there is a high probability that my room was targeted last night by the mafia but I wasn't there.

Reduce that possibility.

I got 'L'ed. Don't you regret targeting the medic now, Noni? Or are you happy because you are a mobster and fooled me!

[Rene]

This is my saved draft that was meant to be sent instead of my post number 2561. I tried my best to be patient, but I can't. Sorry @Gridfon.

The only reason I put forth the argument Valli and Emilly forged the role together was that I disbelieved Mafia had an investigative role to get informations on other's role names and abilities!

Because Emilly vs. Valli was the only example of it this far. And we already got all the role claims out. BUT, now as Gridfon pointed out. Not only the Immunity ability claim was the same with Heffie&Clemens. BUT ALSO THE ROLE NAMES. Fluff around them is different of course. But if you look at Valli vs Emilly, the fluff was different there as well. So mafia's investigation results are well detailed , but shallow when it comes to fluff. So, either Clemens or Heffie has woven their fluff quite well with all the details.

This second example further bolsters the notion that Mafia had a copycat who figured out Town roles and abilities then distributed them to Mafia.

In conclusion: Heffie stepped away from the immunity claim under pressure, that just makes Heffie the more suspicious target, by far. Because if Clemens was the Copycat's recipient and was handed a immunity claim through innocent Heffie. Heffie would have no reason to deny their immunity afterwards. However if it's other way around, that makes a lot of sense.

That's an excellent find @Gridfon, I missed that detail.

---

@Sander Sorry to hear that mate. I know we never interacted much back then but Mind seems fun at parties. Hope to meet again with you some other day. Maybe in hell?

I also overlooked the part that Clemens claimed to have gotten attacked on N1. Adding Sander's claim to that. Mafia never missed a night. That means my recruiting mafia theory is a no go.

[Rene]

Belated, just dropping this as a note for future and I think if our find is true, it also warrants a different look at @phox vs. @Bombaclaat roleclaims, in greater detail. I'll be going through their reveal posts.

[Gridfon]

Belated, just dropping this as a note for future and I think if our find is true, it also warrants a different look at @phox vs. @Bombaclaat roleclaims, in greater detail. I'll be going through their reveal posts.

@Bombaclaat is very suspicious either way.
I do believe in @phox's role declaration. I just don't know if that role is aligned with town or mafia (same as with @MrWaffles).

[Gridfon]

@zero: What is the name of your role, and what did you do in Night 2 and Night 3?

[behemoth]

@Heffie

This makes me invulnerable to attacks from that faction which can kill by violent attacks. It makes sense that there would be an NTA that gives immunity to infection attacks, so unless anyone else claims such an NTA as his, I would lean towards believing Clemens for now"

I posted at least 4-5 posts similar to this one, which specifically called out that the credibility of Clemens's role is inextricably linked to his alleged immunity to infection and the lack of a similar claim from other players. But let's assume you missed all 5. Your prior analyses seem to indicate that you're at least keeping up with people's role claims. So, were you aware of Clemens's role claim when it was first revealed, and if yes, did it not occur to you that Houston, we might have a problem because there are now two players immune to infection and that's one too many? Furthermore, Clemens's alleged immunity was the topic of the day during the Clemens as Godfather discussions, so either 1) you totally missed those as well, 2) you failed to see how your own immunity would be relevant in helping catch Clemens with a lie, or 3) your role is made up.

Probably because you realized the pickle you were in, your role has meanwhile downgraded from actual immunity to immunity in just the first night. But wait, doesn't that take us back to square one where Clemens has a credible role claim and you don't?

I won't repeat the stuff about how you were scared but not scared enough to fully comply with your twilight antagonist, the mechanics of which don't make sense either. On the other hand if the story with the little canister is true (which might very well still be true if you're mafia), that would further corroborate that it's possible for Gridfon to find traces of infection in Clemens's room and for Clemens to not be infected.

Lastly, if you don't have an actual NTA, what would be the point of you parading out and about at night in a hazmat suit. But let's say you were, if you could see well enough to walk around and look for traces of pathogens (which I assume you'd need to be able to see through a microscope?), why would the hazmat suit prevent you from seeing whoever it is that you're running into?

vote Heffie

[valli]

There is a subtle difference in the role delcaration which Emily used

And my role ist Expert virologist

in comparison of mine.

researcher, expert in virology

Heffie even emphasized on that in the post here

[...]
My role name bolded by the mod "researcher" the environmental microbiology bit was in the description.

Clemens used the same format

I am a Researcher that went into the field of microbiology

Just to be very clear, my official role is also just "researcher" and the other part is from come from the description.

A hypothesis:
Mafia has an investigative role which let's them extract THAT part of the role declaration, without the fluff around it ... that would kinda fit. I have to state that using "researcher" as the role name is not far, so guessing tha is for sure easy for them.

@Clemens @Heffie does your roles indicate that you work in a team of researcher around the topic of microbiology?

[Rene]

Having evaluated the @Bombaclaat vs. @phox reveals. I can say, I believe that fits the pattern to be the third example of the copycat action, after Emilly vs Valli, and Heffie vs. Clemens.

Phox is quite frankly the real therapist, as backed with the NTA+our day time claims matching. But Bombaclaat didn't know what to do with the ability he was given with, so he came up with the funny/useless dialogues instead to buy time? (God knows why that defense was enough to make him less suspicious than me.). Literally 0 input to town discussions with the ability. Just stalling. Also he has woven a different fluff, and made it about conspirators, surprised to see a different fluff? Not at all.

Did Bombaclaat know phox could block people at night as well? That's highly possible, but just because he knew the ability it doesn't equate he should be claiming having it. That's the first mistake Heffie did for example, infection immunity is a VERY HARD role to defend. She should've passed on that role and forged another role, if you ask me. But anyways. Bombaclaat didn't claim a vote blocking ability. Because there's no way for him to prove that his target is blocked at night. So, yes I think he omitted that detail in order to look less suspicious.

It definitely seems like people picked up the non-mafia roles of others. (Not necessarily town, it's to be underlined.) But they didn't know how to defend those roles properly, and made a half work out of it. For example, being threatened by the mafia and being infection immune. Heffie realized that after we pointed that out. It surprises me to admit that but I think Bombaclaat played a better game around their forged role than Heffie.

A hypothesis:
Mafia has an investigative role which let's them extract THAT part of the role declaration, without the fluff around it ... that would kinda fit. I have to state that using "researcher" as the role name is not far, so guessing tha is for sure easy for them.

Yeah, that's what I've been saying. I first presented it forward while defending Emilly (D3) and said that it would be impossible for you two have the same roles unless Mafia had someway of knowing others' roles. @Noni even answered by never seeing such a role before.

[Gridfon]

A hypothesis:
Mafia has an investigative role which let's them extract THAT part of the role declaration, without the fluff around it ... that would kinda fit. I have to state that using "researcher" as the role name is not far, so guessing tha is for sure easy for them.

The mafia team had Emilly on it, so they saw how a role like that is phrased by Daemon. No guessing needed for that.

[Rene]

And said it would be impossible for you two have the same roles unless Mafia had someway of knowing others' roles. @Noni even answered by never seeing such a role before.

Actually, correction. I didn't say that: I said one role confirms the other one simply because of all matching details. But if Emilly turns out to be mafia then that would mean Mafia has a copycat in it. Same thing essentially, but with a really important distinction. Because I've played Mafia games where identical roles exist. It was you guys who argued with me against it. I think it was @Clemens who responded after I pointed out two Security Guards were dead, that their abilities were probably different.

[MrWaffles]

I got 'L'ed. Don't you regret targeting the medic now, Noni? Or are you happy because you are a mobster and fooled me!

Sorry Sander, but I think no one noticed this. Does 'L'ed mean L strain? Like in post #1971 from valli? Does this mean you are dying tonight?

-MrWaffles

[behemoth]

i picked you as my target as i think you are a very clever player (i don't know exactly when and during which old mafia game i drew that conclusion but it has stuck with me). now if i was mafia i would try to eliminate my strongest opponents during the night, which is why i checked radwuld on n1 and you on n2 as i thought you'd be the main targets of the mafia.

Nice try but I don't buy it:) I only played in a handful of games and was not in that most rarefied strata you might refer to as top talent. If you wanted an A-list player as bank for your buck, you would have gone with rad & EC / other top dogs of those days. Yet a better idea would have been to make an informed decision based on the arguments and controversies of the day, of which there were plenty. [Rhetorical question] Because I had been pointing at you since Day 1, could this have been a subtle attempt to get into my good graces and hopefully deflect my attention from you by vouching publicly for my credibility (i.e., implying I'm clean because my room was not visited)...?

Regarding sander's role declaration - to me lab administrator is not the same thing as facilities manager. i consider a manager to be the head of something, the boss. administrator is not even a high up job at all in my eyes. i didn't think there was a strong contradiction. HAD i been mafia and such a good player as you keep saying (not that i mind:) DON'T YOU THINK I WOULD HAVE USED THIS OPPORTUNITY to try and lynch sander?! i did mention that some things may not add up from what he says but i defended him against lynching and remember stating that it seems like ha has an important role and we should keep him around.

Short answer is No, I don't think you would have used that opportunity to try and lynch Sander if you were mafia because a) your role title might not have been fabricated yet, or b) if you would have tried to get him lynched based on a made-up role discrepancy, that would just be a bad play with too much risk and potentially no reward.

Considering your own admission that things did not add up, and given that things weren't adding up for many other players as well, defending him from lynching does not seem like the logical thing to do in the situation. The pro town thing would have been to expose and analyze the things that don't add up to you before a lynch decision is made.

[behemoth]

I got 'L'ed. Don't you regret targeting the medic now, Noni? Or are you happy because you are a mobster and fooled me!

Sorry Sander, but I think no one noticed this. Does 'L'ed mean L strain? Like in post #1971 from valli? Does this mean you are dying tonight?

-MrWaffles

I missed this earlier. Sander, elaborate por favor.

While we're on this topic @Noni, I find it suspicious that you would have hung around your own room. It's the safe and logical choice if you're mafia, but not a great choice for the town. With exposed investigative and healer roles, mafia would have taken their chances with either one of them, yet we're supposed to believe that you genuinely thought you were the more likely target. Yes, it's subjective and I can't prove it, but it's one more thing to add to my growing list of conjectures that's beginning to show you're maybe not such a good townie after all

[Rene]

While we're on this topic @Noni, I find it suspicious that you would have hung around your own room. It's the safe and logical choice if you're mafia, but not a great choice for the town. With exposed investigative and healer roles, mafia would have taken their chances with either one of them,

I think your argument is valid and I agree with @Sander, bringing that forth. However I was keeping that for myself, as it's probably better to go one person at a time otherwise instant lynches aren't going to happen. (This is an advice I should be heeding as well, I got a bit carried away.)

Still we should keep in mind that it was @Noni's claim that contradicted with @Emilly's, a proven mafia, albeit it wasn't Noni, who was to first to take up on that contradiction. And if we exclude that Noni is Mafia, which is more likely than the opposite for me, the only option to accuse Noni is to be a neutral? And a neutral investigator role makes absolutely no sense to me, which would only leave the option that Noni's NTA claims are forged. I don't know, it's just unlikely in the grand scheme of things. But is it possible, yeah, maybe.

[Noni]

@behemoth
I never said you were the best player, I said you were clever.
Also, I did go for rad on N1.
Also the fact that nobody visited you does not make you town and why would you imply that I was trying "to get on your good side" early on?! That does not make sense. I don't get information any the person I'm hanging around with I get info about the people visiting them.

I explained my thought process and I can't help whether you believe it or not.

You keep going on in your posts on how wonderfully deceitful I am playing as town only to later say I'm doing the obvious mafia move. Make up your mind please.

@Sander i told you yesterday as well why I thought I should target my own room. Seems like even you thought I may get infected and targeted me. I am sorry I didn't go for you, ofc, since I would have had the clear answer of who is mafia right now.

I was going to post before bed last night but didn't get around to it anymore.
In my last post or one of my last posts i was saying that what I find hard to believe was that mafia would be able to kill heffie if she has immunity. Was waiting for the explanation from the mod and the explanation was that she didn't have immunity.

I was honestly leaning more towards clemens being suspicious when this all started but the inconsistencies are unmissable on heffie's declarations.

vote Heffie

[Noni]

While we're on this topic @Noni, I find it suspicious that you would have hung around your own room. It's the safe and logical choice if you're mafia, but not a great choice for the town. With exposed investigative and healer roles, mafia would have taken their chances with either one of them,

I think your argument is valid and I agree with @Sander, bringing that forth. However I was keeping that for myself, as it's probably better to go one person at a time otherwise instant lynches aren't going to happen. (This is an advice I should be heeding as well, I got a bit carried away.)

Still we should keep in mind that it was @Noni's claim that contradicted with @Emilly's, a proven mafia, albeit it wasn't Noni, who was to first to take up on that contradiction. And if we exclude that Noni is Mafia, which is more likely than the opposite for me, the only option to accuse Noni is to be a neutral? And a neutral investigator role makes absolutely no sense to me, which would only leave the option that Noni's NTA claims are forged. I don't know, it's just unlikely in the grand scheme of things. But is it possible, yeah, maybe.

When I went online and saw Emily's declaration clemens had already pointed out the inconsistency.
Don't know if you read my answer to sander yesterday when he asked me why I didn't hang around his door but it was earlier on in the day.

[Rene]

When I went online and saw Emily's declaration clemens had already pointed out the inconsistency.
Don't know if you read my answer to sander yesterday when he asked me why I didn't hang around his door but it was earlier on in the day.

Yeah, I don't really suspect you regarding Emilly case. You're pretty much in the clear, I just stated the fact that it was Clemens who brought it up and not you. I'm not trying to corner you or anything @Noni, you already apologized to @Sander over it. I don't think you had bad intentions and it's easy to go hard on people after they make mistakes over the unknown variables. That's not a road I usually take. Things like that happen, we'll move forward.

I was believing that not watching @Sander or our other investigators was a mistake. And I still have good arguments to back that up. But in truth, it was just a gamble. You were trying to catch the person that's coming to infect you.

[Noni]

@Rene i was thinking Mafia will not go for the obvious ones and I'll be the hero who outsmarted them. Alas, I am not.
Edit :my phone autocorrects mafia to Maria. Ironically it's a good correction )

[behemoth]

@behemoth
I never said you were the best player, I said you were clever.
Also, I did go for rad on N1."

Yes, I'm aware you went for rad on N1. I was trying to point out that I'm not rad material.

now if i was mafia i would try to eliminate my strongest opponents during the night, which is why i checked radwuld on n1 and you on n2 as i thought you'd be the main targets of the mafia.

If the goal was to check the main targets of the mafia, i.e., someone who would be perceived or who you would see as your strongest opponent if you were mafia, then I probably wouldn't have been your choice for N2. Hence I was implying there's something fishy about your claimed targets and/or role.

Also the fact that nobody visited you does not make you town and why would you imply that I was trying "to get on your good side" early on?! That does not make sense. I don't get information any the person I'm hanging around with I get info about the people visiting them.

I take this one back, I always mixed up your, joe and ruxi's nta. The idea was that in the event certain things about your role/targets was fabricated, pulling a move like that could make me more inclined to trust you as someone with a good role who is helping to establish my credibility, and would get me to back off (I was throwing jabs your way since Day 1). However, this point is now moot.

You keep going on in your posts on how wonderfully deceitful I am playing as town only to later say I'm doing the obvious mafia move. Make up your mind please.

Well eventually even the wonderfully deceitful ones begin to slip up as the net tightens. As evidenced by the progression of my posts, my mind is increasingly making itself up in the direction of overt mafia behavior

[behemoth]

Meanwhile I invite everyone who hasn't voted yet to make up their minds about Heffie. I think both sides have presented their arguments and there's plenty there to draw a conclusion from. In the interest of time, all those who find Heffie suspicious please vote so that we can move on to the next order of business while it's still day.

@phox @valli @zero @Skuggi @MrWaffles @Bombaclaat

[Noni]

Are you not literally his sister?

And fine then, kill me cause I thought you were good.

I don't know why this discussion keeps going. You can't bring arguments against my opinion. It's an opinion and I've explained it to you because you asked.

[Noni]

Meanwhile I invite everyone who hasn't voted yet to make up their minds about Heffie. I think both sides have presented their arguments and there's plenty there to draw a conclusion from. In the interest of time, all those who find Heffie suspicious please vote so that we can move on to the next order of business while it's still day.

@phox @valli @zero @Skuggi @MrWaffles @Bombaclaat

Except for waffles who is blocked on rene. Forever! No, jk. For today

[Gridfon]

Meanwhile I invite everyone who hasn't voted yet to make up their minds about Heffie. I think both sides have presented their arguments and there's plenty there to draw a conclusion from. In the interest of time, all those who find Heffie suspicious please vote so that we can move on to the next order of business while it's still day.

@phox @valli @zero @Skuggi @MrWaffles @Bombaclaat

I am personally waiting for Clemens to get online, and I really want to have him here before lynching Heffie.
I might even consider temporarily unvoting Heffie so I can hear more from Clemens first.

[phox]

Question to everyone: how likely is it that Daemon made two different roles that are both called just a "Researcher"? To me, this seems to imply that either Gridfon or Heffie are lying, and we need lynch both until we determine which of them is mafia.

@Gridfon well I think Daemon did this in order to confuse us. Why would he add a psychologist and a therapist other than to make the game harder and to make us second guess townies just for having coincidental names? I really don't know. Regardless I am bothered about heffie's confusion and her contradictions back and forth.

[Bombaclaat]

Meanwhile I invite everyone who hasn't voted yet to make up their minds about Heffie. I think both sides have presented their arguments and there's plenty there to draw a conclusion from. In the interest of time, all those who find Heffie suspicious please vote so that we can move on to the next order of business while it's still day.

@phox @valli @zero @Skuggi @MrWaffles @Bombaclaat

I'll make up my mind before the deadline.

[Clemens]

I don't have much time right now, so just a quick pop in.

Right now we may need to determine truth about Heffie or Clemens. Personally I am currently a bit more suspicious about Clemens, because an overactive immune system and resulting inflammation is what kills people with COVID19 (again it's called cytokine storm). I am pretty sure that was already known about COVID19 when Daemon first assigned us roles

Let's face it, Daemon is super smart, and he has been doing his research (we have the L/S strain examples to prove that he is well documented) so then why would he make a mistake as this one? strikes me as utterly odd.

I've already been through that with @Gridfon and @zero during D3.

I am a Researcher that went into the field of microbiology for the sole purpose of curing my own chronic infection, subjecting myself to various vaccines and cures. As a consequence, I am now left with a self-inflicted hyper-active immune system which comes with other health-related downsides.
[...]
And to add another bit of fluff, one of my health-related downsides is an elevated temperature as well.

Daemon's description checks out and makes sense.
I've been immune to viral infections before the game started, and equally my body's condition has been poor.

Question to everyone: how likely is it that Daemon made two different roles that are both called just a "Researcher"? To me, this seems to imply that either Gridfon or Heffie are lying, and we need lynch both until we determine which of them is mafia.

There are indeed more than one, but you could easily give us the last piece of your info if you wanted.

What is your exact role name? Do you claim to be just a Researcher?

Yes.

I am a Researcher that went into the field of microbiology

I got 'L'ed.

Why didn't you tell us sooner?
I could have scratched you off the suspect list then.

Okay, stopped reading at #2769 as I have to go.
Will catch up later.

[Gridfon]

Question to everyone: how likely is it that Daemon made two different roles that are both called just a "Researcher"? To me, this seems to imply that either Gridfon or Heffie are lying, and we need lynch both until we determine which of them is mafia.

@Gridfon well I think Daemon did this in order to confuse us.

Not really. It all makes perfect sense.

[Bombaclaat]

Question to everyone: how likely is it that Daemon made two different roles that are both called just a "Researcher"? To me, this seems to imply that either Gridfon or Heffie are lying, and we need lynch both until we determine which of them is mafia.

@Gridfon well I think Daemon did this in order to confuse us. Why would he add a psychologist and a therapist other than to make the game harder and to make us second guess townies just for having coincidental names? I really don't know. Regardless I am bothered about heffie's confusion and her contradictions back and forth.

I'm not so certain. Her role claim isn't a convienent lie and she may have misunderstood it a little. Suspicious but I think at least some players are happy to have attention diverted from themselves. Not convinced very apprehensive about Heffie.

[zero]

@zero: What is the name of your role, and what did you do in Night 2 and Night 3?

I am a PhD Student and have come to the CROWN to complete the last stages of my research for my thesis. Being young and inexperienced, I have used much of my luggage space to bring with me all sorts of sweets and junk food. This has become a valuable commodity and I can choose to share some of this with other people by either inviting them into my room or offering to go to their room. If I call a player in my room, he is effectively protected if anyone targets him specifically and not just his room (confirmed later on by @Daemon) whereas if I go to another player's room, I am protected if someone targets myself or my room. The caveat is that if someone targets the room or the person with whom or where I am spending the night, I am also affected by that particular action whereas if I choose to call someone in my room and I or my room is targeted that night, the person I asked to join me is also affected by this. Moreover, I ask people to come to my room for sweets or offer to go to theirs by writing to them on NewronComm and only leave my room if I choose to go spend the night in another room. I didn't think much of this detail at first but after yesterday's events, I understood why @Daemon included it when describing my NTA. Also remember that the above is my attempt at paraphrasing the mod.

The sweets/junk food I have are limited in quantity and as a result, they can only last a few nights if I choose to share them (i.e., my NTA is limited in the number of times I can use it).


I have used my NTA three times in this game thus far and I may or may not still be able to use it one more time. I will not reveal this for my own sake.

N1. I called @radwulf to my room (see #1832)
N2. I spent the night in @radwulf's room.
N3. Did not use NTA.
N4. I spent the night in Telvek's room. (see #2377)

I already explained reasoning for N1 and N4 in the referenced posts. In N2, I thought the safest place for me to hide was in @radwulf's room since he was most likely attacked in N1 and the mafia will unlikely target him again the following night. I know that @Gridfon checked @radwulf's room for infections in N2 as well and I assume he wasn't told that I am there as well because he specifically targeted the room and not the players within it. I asked @Daemon privately about that and he said that it would be inappropriate to discuss other players supposed NTAs with me but that indeed whether they target the room or the player makes a difference.

With regards to the mandatory cleaning, I have nothing to do with it and have been trying to figure out what it is myself as well. I still am not sure even now if it's a nefarious NTA or not and the fact that nobody has mentioned it since D2 and there have been 2 more confirmed infections since then ( @Princess.ruxi and @Sander) raises the possibility that whoever used it either is no longer with us or it was a one time shot. The fact that joesatri was told about it happening though makes me think that it was probably a mafia NTA. Nevertheless, I came forth with my NTA on my own accord yesterday which had a significant impact on proving that Emily was lying when it was not obvious for the rest who to trust between her and @Noni. If I simply wanted an alibi I could have easily just voted her without providing any NTA information bearing in mind that I was well aware that my NTA has some similarities with mandatory cleaning.

I haven't been online since yesterday morning and have only skimmed through the 3 pages of posts added since. I will have to read everything carefully first before deciding what to do.

[Skuggi]

I find the whole thing confusing. Looking at the discussion regarding @Heffie over the past day (or two), three things stand out:

1. She claimed a role, and then when challenged, emailed the mod and got clarification that she "misunderstood" her role.
2. She now claims to have no abilities whatsoever. I'm not sure if I recall anyone in Daemon's game, who had no abilities.
3. Despite saying she's always worked in the best interest of the town, she's not been forthcoming with information that could be useful to the town.

All in all, it sounds very fishy to me. Therefore I will vote for Heffie unless something changes.

I am personally waiting for Clemens to get online, and I really want to have him here before lynching Heffie.
I might even consider temporarily unvoting Heffie so I can hear more from Clemens first.

However, it is probably a good idea to wait for Clemens, so I will wait to cast my vote.

[Edit: typos]

[Sander]

Everyone is going to wait for the deadline to Lynch or not Lynch. That will be most helpful.

How about taking some responsibility. And vote. Or is it in your best interest to end this day, without a death.
Imagine you decide to Lynch Heffie right before the deadline and she is innocent. You freely give the mafia another night. And you can't even pressure anyone else. So not only a mistake, also wasted time.

[Skuggi]

I am personally waiting for Clemens to get online, and I really want to have him here before lynching Heffie.
I might even consider temporarily unvoting Heffie so I can hear more from Clemens first.

However, it is probably a good idea to wait for Clemens, so I will wait to cast my vote.

I see Clemens responded while I was typing. And Sanders is right, we are running short on time.

vote Heffie

[Gridfon]

Oh well, Clemens escaped the scrutiny. Here are the claimed role names (referencing the posts where the role name was claimed):

Role names:
Security Chief - Moxy
Security Guards - Stringer, Trigardon

Flat-Earther - Blissie
Conspiracy Theorist - Nanaa
Anti-Vaxxer - Siderite

(Infected) Twin Test Subject - Mary
Twin Test Subject - EscapedConvict

Nurse - Radwulf
Personnel Manager - Telvek
(Infected) Gardener - SilveXtru
Computer Expert - Joesatri
Engineeer - Princess.ruxi
---
Cook - MrWaffles (#1050)
Lab Administrator - Noni (#1840)
Physician - Sander (#1531)
Therapist - Phox (#2257)
Psychologist - Bombaclaat (#2244)
Fitness Coach - Behemoth (#1799)
Research Assistant - Skuggi (#2324)
Mayor - Rene (#2363)
PhD Student - Zero (#2591)

Researchers:
* expert in bio-warfare - Adela (dead)
* expert in genetics - Emilly (infected, dead)
* expert in physiological processes - Gridfon (#1138)
* expert in ??? - Clemens (#1207)
* expert in virology - valli (#1948)
* expert in environmental microbiology - Heffie (#2551)


It has been increasingly clear that we have many Researchers around, and each is an expert in something. Clemens is the only one who did not claim any expertise (microbiology is not one, we're all different sub-types of microbiology researchers). Him being able to do that would have helped a lot, but he's away now and I don't want to dwell on it much longer.

I do want you to think about this before lynching Heffie, but I also think this would not exonerate Heffie (apart from the slim chance Clemens could make a mistake in answering my questions about his role).

[Noni]

I don't have much time right now, so just a quick pop in.

Right now we may need to determine truth about Heffie or Clemens. Personally I am currently a bit more suspicious about Clemens, because an overactive immune system and resulting inflammation is what kills people with COVID19 (again it's called cytokine storm). I am pretty sure that was already known about COVID19 when Daemon first assigned us roles

Let's face it, Daemon is super smart, and he has been doing his research (we have the L/S strain examples to prove that he is well documented) so then why would he make a mistake as this one? strikes me as utterly odd.

I've already been through that with @Gridfon and @zero during D3.

I am a Researcher that went into the field of microbiology for the sole purpose of curing my own chronic infection, subjecting myself to various vaccines and cures. As a consequence, I am now left with a self-inflicted hyper-active immune system which comes with other health-related downsides.
[...]
And to add another bit of fluff, one of my health-related downsides is an elevated temperature as well.

Daemon's description checks out and makes sense.
I've been immune to viral infections before the game started, and equally my body's condition has been poor.

Question to everyone: how likely is it that Daemon made two different roles that are both called just a "Researcher"? To me, this seems to imply that either Gridfon or Heffie are lying, and we need lynch both until we determine which of them is mafia.

There are indeed more than one, but you could easily give us the last piece of your info if you wanted.

What is your exact role name? Do you claim to be just a Researcher?

Yes.

I am a Researcher that went into the field of microbiology

I got 'L'ed.

Why didn't you tell us sooner?
I could have scratched you off the suspect list then.

Okay, stopped reading at #2769 as I have to go.
Will catch up later.

@Gridfon i Kind of want to unvote heffie but I'm not sure I should (the inconsistencies I pointed out still bother me).
However, say for argument's sake she is telling the truth and we lynch a townie who was blackmailed by Emily.in that case there would be no contradiction between her and clemens role.
So what is not adding up in my head about clemens :
- if he was the target of Mafia in night 1 that would explain the infection traces in his room however he also claimed he has an elevated temperature due to his medical condition. So he can't be killed by mafia at night but any type of investigation would make him suspicious and he'd be potentially lynched during the day. He does not have an NTA so this role is almost impossible to play without having to constantly fight for your life during the day. A violin needs to be playing in the background while you're reading this paragraph cause clemens' life is literally that hard.
- the detail about being immune to coronavirus due to already having the exact issues causing coronavirus seems like it's not a mistake daemon would make.
- the are so many fields a researcher could work in. Why microbiology for both clemens and heffie (remember we are assuming heffie is telling the truth)

It's a lot of circumstantial stuff but it is on my mind.

And I'm worried about lynching the wrong person. As I said in a previous post, I consider heffie a good player who would not mess up at such a critical time. She could have declared ANY OTHER ROLE and at least deflected attention from herself for a little bit longer but she didn't. So that is another thing that is making me unsure about her.
-

[Bombaclaat]

Everyone is going to wait for the deadline to Lynch or not Lynch. That will be most helpful.

How about taking some responsibility. And vote. Or is it in your best interest to end this day, without a death.
Imagine you decide to Lynch Heffie right before the deadline and she is innocent. You freely give the mafia another night. And you can't even pressure anyone else. So not only a mistake, also wasted time.

Or it could help them by lynching more innocents.

[Rene]

@Gridfon I just want to add, my full role name is Chief Scientist. But my role is equivalent of a Mayor in a classic Mafia game with slight twists of function to give you an idea to work with.

I said this before but I also appreciate a decent window of reaction before the day ends to prove myself, I'm sure Daemon will be happier with that as well. Since he needs to act on it and he might be busy IRL otherwise.

[Noni]

@Gridfon I just want to add, my full role name is Chief Scientist. But my role is equivalent of a Mayor in a classic Mafia game with slight twists of function to give you an idea to work with.

I said this before but I also appreciate a decent window of reaction before the day ends to prove myself, I'm sure Daemon will be happier with that as well. Since he needs to act on it and he might be busy IRL otherwise.

Can you do it for anyone or when the votes are on you? This doesn't change anything it's just my curiosity cause I've never known about this role

[Gridfon]

- the are so many fields a researcher could work in. Why microbiology for both clemens and heffie (remember we are assuming heffie is telling the truth)

My role also says that I'm a microbiologist, and physiological processes is a sub-type of that, which I'm an expert in. The main story also tells us it's a microbiology research facility over here. I think it's very likely that every (most?) researcher's roles indicate they deal with microbiology.