Mafia 1 - The CROWN - GAME OVER!

Guilt is a numbers game.
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Skuggi
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#2501

Post by Skuggi »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:33 pm
Skuggi wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:28 pm
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:58 am
I don't have an NTA, however I did receive the info that I was in the crew area looking for traces of pathogens when patient 0 released the virus from a canister to infect the first victims. I wasn't infected due to my suit, but the mask didn't allow me to see who patient 0 was or who they infected.
This feels important. Do you have any more information about what happened, or who was there?
No, unfortunately the actual role description states I couldn't see also because of the hazmat suit.
I've been thinking about this. It sounds like you were there when Patient 0 "Infected" his victims and created the mafia, but you were immune? So you were there when the mafia was formed and then everyone went their separate ways to live happily ever after?

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Noni
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#2502

Post by Noni »

@phox @Gridfon @Sander what are your thoughts about this clemens heffie situation?

Clemens
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#2503

Post by Clemens »

Noni wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:44 pm
I dunno clemens, why would heffie claim the same immunity as yours if she is lying? Surely she is creative enough to come up with something benign.
Perhaps because she thought it would be a safe bet, or she didn't have enough time/will for something more extravagent.
@Emilly went for a bigger role and you know how that turned out.
You'll have to ask her.
Or @Daemon later if she's telling the truth.

I daresay the same argument works in my favour as well - couldn't I have come up with something more exciting myself?

Either way, I'll be busy for the next hours, so I'll pop back in later.
I've given everyone something to consider and discuss while we wait for tomorrow.
Just don't waste the available time doing nothing. :roll:

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Heffie
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#2504

Post by Heffie »

Good thinking @Skuggi you are observant.

Actually, patient 0 threatened to then kill me instantly or later if I didn't follow their threats during the day.
N1: she said I should vote for behemoth
N2: she said to shift my attentions to princess.ruxi and Siderite (this part along with his role claim is what confirmed the crazies faction to me)
N3: she told me to focus on behemoth again

After that message on N3 I was pretty done with these random orders sent by message and much like EC was willing to die if she'd kill me for not heeding them. I still didn't know who patient 0 was, I didn't know if she was the one messaging me or if other infected mafia could. From what I'd seen from @behemoth I was pretty certain she was a townie.

I went for who I thought was guilty instead which were the gibberish people and Emily.

On N4 Daemon informed me that Emily was patient 0 and that I was free from threats of potential death and that no one else knew about my existence.

I didn't mention this earlier this morning because, as already stated, we already know of the existence of the factions and about the people emily wrote me about. Secondly, I saw the scummy logic of the likes of @Clemens and was sure he'd spin this to somehow say I'm guilty. Either way, you guys can see who I voted to lynch and didn't. I'm 100% a townie researcher that patient 0 attempted to manipulate unsuccessfully. I'm sure that didn't sit well with her, but I didn't know she was the one and honestly thought she was guilty. Glad I did.

Rene
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#2505

Post by Rene »

It's just too convenient for the mafia to claim infection immunity. To have two of it on the town's side, how's the mafia supposed to win against people they can't vote at day (me), along with two people they can't kill at night? That's a near impossible work for them to go through.

@Heffie You pointed your fingers hard on the townies but never voted for them, and then defended yourself with the argument that you haven't voted for any of them. Despite you were there to incriminate them. That also seems like the perfect mafia play to me.

Also this last part is going to be a bit empathetic, but as you can see I try to make do with the resources I'm given, so I put myself in your shoes and I'd think what can I do with this role? Sure it makes sense to survive till the late game since you can't get targeted by infections, it can be game changer, no denying that. But you could also fake-claim a really important town role to relieve pressure off our investigators, our people that got targeted by the mafia, you know. As you were already immune. Unless the mafia knew who you were by name.

It also doesn't make much sense that mafia is communicating with someone that's immune to them and not a part of their faction, to what purpose does that serve?

Did the mafia know who you are?

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Noni
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#2506

Post by Noni »

So heffie you were being commanded around by Emily or she could have killed you? Like she was able to tell you who to vote for just like phox is able to? And then when she died you can now vote how you want?

Sander
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#2507

Post by Sander »

Clemens wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:25 pm
MrWaffles wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:24 pm
@Sander, if you didn't save yourself on N1, who did you try to save?
He said no one, because he didn't want to.
I was mad at Daemon, for not being able to target myself. So I targeted no one else that night. At N2 I targeted Joe, but failed to save his life. Then at N3 I got a friendly reminder I hadn't send in my target yet. Than after a friendly reminder that I'm playing a game, I went on Clemens.

I chose N4 Noni because she was the only investigator left. After the backup doctor gone, and most of our investigators gone, I found that the safest approach. Now I'm mad at her for targeting herself. If she was to die, she wouldn't have been able to tell it. I can't believe she didn't target me...

I'm restraining myself for that reason alone to vote against her. Now that is scum behavior!

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Heffie
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#2508

Post by Heffie »

Yes, she threatened if I didn't do as she'd said that I'd die. Anyways, I figured if EC could kill himself to take someone down then so could I. According to Daemon only Emily knew of my existence since she was the patient 0 I saw open the canister as part of my role description. She knew who I was the whole time, but I didn't know till Daemon emailed me last night and said I'm free for now on because patient 0 is dead.

Rene
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#2509

Post by Rene »

So let me get this straight.

You had no NTAs, no DTAs, nothing other than being blackmailed by the mafia. You're town, you're immune to infections but you don't know if that could have saved you from the mafia. And now that we took Emilly out, your role is activated and the activation is just that you're infection immune. And that's pretty much it?

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Noni
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#2510

Post by Noni »

Sander wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:26 pm
Clemens wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:25 pm
MrWaffles wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:24 pm
@Sander, if you didn't save yourself on N1, who did you try to save?
He said no one, because he didn't want to.
I was mad at Daemon, for not being able to target myself. So I targeted no one else that night. At N2 I targeted Joe, but failed to save his life. Then at N3 I got a friendly reminder I hadn't send in my target yet. Than after a friendly reminder that I'm playing a game, I went on Clemens.

I chose N4 Noni because she was the only investigator left. After the backup doctor gone, and most of our investigators gone, I found that the safest approach. Now I'm mad at her for targeting herself. If she was to die, she wouldn't have been able to tell it. I can't believe she didn't target me...

I'm restraining myself for that reason alone to vote against her. Now that is scum behavior!
I'm sorry sander but I tried to put myself in the Mafia shoes and thought what I would do if I was mafia.
And I would not have targeted either grid or valli if I was mafia and I would not risk targeting you just in case you can actually save yourself.
If I had been targeted by mafia I would not die straight away and I would be able to out them. That was my thought process

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Noni
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#2511

Post by Noni »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:27 pm
Yes, she threatened if I didn't do as she'd said that I'd die. Anyways, I figured if EC could kill himself to take someone down then so could I. According to Daemon only Emily knew of my existence since she was the patient 0 I saw open the canister as part of my role description. She knew who I was the whole time, but I didn't know till Daemon emailed me last night and said I'm free for now on because patient 0 is dead.
But how would she kill you if you didn't obey since her way of killing is infection and you are immune?!

This is the "fluff" of the role that now is making me more suspicious

Skuggi
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#2512

Post by Skuggi »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:07 pm
Good thinking @Skuggi you are observant.

Actually, patient 0 threatened to then kill me instantly or later if I didn't follow their threats during the day.
N1: she said I should vote for behemoth
N2: she said to shift my attentions to princess.ruxi and Siderite (this part along with his role claim is what confirmed the crazies faction to me)
N3: she told me to focus on behemoth again

After that message on N3 I was pretty done with these random orders sent by message and much like EC was willing to die if she'd kill me for not heeding them. I still didn't know who patient 0 was, I didn't know if she was the one messaging me or if other infected mafia could. From what I'd seen from @behemoth I was pretty certain she was a townie.

I went for who I thought was guilty instead which were the gibberish people and Emily.

On N4 Daemon informed me that Emily was patient 0 and that I was free from threats of potential death and that no one else knew about my existence.

I didn't mention this earlier this morning because, as already stated, we already know of the existence of the factions and about the people emily wrote me about. Secondly, I saw the scummy logic of the likes of @Clemens and was sure he'd spin this to somehow say I'm guilty. Either way, you guys can see who I voted to lynch and didn't. I'm 100% a townie researcher that patient 0 attempted to manipulate unsuccessfully. I'm sure that didn't sit well with her, but I didn't know she was the one and honestly thought she was guilty. Glad I did.
All right, this is very valuable info. So @Emilly was patient 0. And if this is true, it further exonerates @behemoth, and also suggests that the mafia was very intent on killing her.

Were you able to communicate back to patient 0?

Also, the part about Siderite jumps out as odd. Did he claim a role?

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#2513

Post by Sander »

Noni wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:02 pm
@phox @Gridfon @Sander what are your thoughts about this clemens heffie situation?
Lynch Clemens and Heffie. I don't trust either of them. Heffie has given me a bad vibe since the start. But Clemens is playing the innocent follower when it comes to voting and that's nothing like him. Bobbe is his pet follower. He leads.

My thoughts:

Burn Rene for wanting the town to burn. His DTA is a danger anyway.

Lynch Clemens for having an immune system immune to viruses in a medical research facility that is set on finding a cure. How can we not pull that off when we have the antibodies and even a twin test subject...

Lynch Heffie if Clemens turns out Townie. In core, their role is the same. So not both can be townie. And I don't believe to no NTA stories. Of neither of them. But Clemens has priority due to the above reason.

Lynch zero for having the only NTA that calls people away what caused Joe to die. He didn't save jack. And he is not willing to cooperate.

Skuggi and Gridfon I believe at the moment.

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Noni
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#2514

Post by Noni »

Sander wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:41 pm
Noni wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:02 pm
@phox @Gridfon @Sander what are your thoughts about this clemens heffie situation?
Lynch Clemens and Heffie. I don't trust either of them. Heffie has given me a bad vibe since the start. But Clemens is playing the innocent follower when it comes to voting and that's nothing like him. Bobbe is his pet follower. He leads.

My thoughts:

Burn Rene for wanting the town to burn. His DTA is a danger anyway.

Lynch Clemens for having an immune system immune to viruses in a medical research facility that is set on finding a cure. How can we not pull that off when we have the antibodies and even a twin test subject...

Lynch Heffie if Clemens turns out Townie. In core, their role is the same. So not both can be townie. And I don't believe to no NTA stories. Of neither of them. But Clemens has priority due to the above reason.

Lynch zero for having the only NTA that calls people away what caused Joe to die. He didn't save jack. And he is not willing to cooperate.

Skuggi and Gridfon I believe at the moment.
Rene has a scheduled lynching tomorrow, don't forget. He will prove his awesome powers which have been born from our collective respect for him.

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Heffie
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#2515

Post by Heffie »

Noni wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:36 pm
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:27 pm
Yes, she threatened if I didn't do as she'd said that I'd die. Anyways, I figured if EC could kill himself to take someone down then so could I. According to Daemon only Emily knew of my existence since she was the patient 0 I saw open the canister as part of my role description. She knew who I was the whole time, but I didn't know till Daemon emailed me last night and said I'm free for now on because patient 0 is dead.
But how would she kill you if you didn't obey since her way of killing is infection and you are immune?!

This is the "fluff" of the role that now is making me more suspicious
I was immune because when patient 0 opened the canister in the crew area I was wearing the hazmat suit. As for how she'd kill me, it doesn't say, only that she saw me, caught up to me and threatened me. Specifically, it said she could kill me immediately if I didn't comply of later on. Do you think if I ask him now he'd respond to that?

MrWaffles
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#2516

Post by MrWaffles »

Noni wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:36 pm
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:27 pm
Yes, she threatened if I didn't do as she'd said that I'd die. Anyways, I figured if EC could kill himself to take someone down then so could I. According to Daemon only Emily knew of my existence since she was the patient 0 I saw open the canister as part of my role description. She knew who I was the whole time, but I didn't know till Daemon emailed me last night and said I'm free for now on because patient 0 is dead.
But how would she kill you if you didn't obey since her way of killing is infection and you are immune?!

This is the "fluff" of the role that now is making me more suspicious
I agree with Noni. Mafia can only kill through infection correct? If you are permanently immune to infection, shouldn't you never be able to be killed by Mafia? And also, why didn't you tell us this sooner? We might have thought behemoth was Mafia and lynched her. Now, if you are telling the truth, she is most likely innocent.

Also, what really stopped you from betraying the Mafia a few days ago? They have one nighttime kill, and if you are immune with no NTA, they would have surely picked someone more important to kill. You would be like the rest of the town in their eyes at that point, except less of a priority.

-MrWaffles

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Heffie
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#2517

Post by Heffie »

Sander wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:41 pm
Noni wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:02 pm
@phox @Gridfon @Sander what are your thoughts about this clemens heffie situation?
Lynch Clemens and Heffie. I don't trust either of them. Heffie has given me a bad vibe since the start. But Clemens is playing the innocent follower when it comes to voting and that's nothing like him. Bobbe is his pet follower. He leads.

My thoughts:

Burn Rene for wanting the town to burn. His DTA is a danger anyway.

Lynch Clemens for having an immune system immune to viruses in a medical research facility that is set on finding a cure. How can we not pull that off when we have the antibodies and even a twin test subject...

Lynch Heffie if Clemens turns out Townie. In core, their role is the same. So not both can be townie. And I don't believe to no NTA stories. Of neither of them. But Clemens has priority due to the above reason.

Lynch zero for having the only NTA that calls people away what caused Joe to die. He didn't save jack. And he is not willing to cooperate.

Skuggi and Gridfon I believe at the moment.
So who will be left alive? You want to kill everykne regardless of if you're right or wrong because they rubbed you the wrong way :!:

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Heffie
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#2518

Post by Heffie »

MrWaffles wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:46 pm
Noni wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:36 pm
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:27 pm
Yes, she threatened if I didn't do as she'd said that I'd die. Anyways, I figured if EC could kill himself to take someone down then so could I. According to Daemon only Emily knew of my existence since she was the patient 0 I saw open the canister as part of my role description. She knew who I was the whole time, but I didn't know till Daemon emailed me last night and said I'm free for now on because patient 0 is dead.
But how would she kill you if you didn't obey since her way of killing is infection and you are immune?!

This is the "fluff" of the role that now is making me more suspicious
I agree with Noni. Mafia can only kill through infection correct? If you are permanently immune to infection, shouldn't you never be able to be killed by Mafia? And also, why didn't you tell us this sooner? We might have thought behemoth was Mafia and lynched her. Now, if you are telling the truth, she is most likely innocent.

Also, what really stopped you from betraying the Mafia a few days ago? They have one nighttime kill, and if you are immune with no NTA, they would have surely picked someone more important to kill. You would be like the rest of the town in their eyes at that point, except less of a priority.

-MrWaffles
Presumably she (not they, since she only knew about me) would keep me around for the purpose of drawing attention to innocents such as behemoth or princess ruxi. If you look at her playing style the first couple of days, she wasn't active but was reading through the posts enough to respond every now and then. I voted for behemoth like she asked and did it even the second day hoping to stay alive longer

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Noni
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#2519

Post by Noni »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:45 pm
Noni wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:36 pm
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:27 pm
Yes, she threatened if I didn't do as she'd said that I'd die. Anyways, I figured if EC could kill himself to take someone down then so could I. According to Daemon only Emily knew of my existence since she was the patient 0 I saw open the canister as part of my role description. She knew who I was the whole time, but I didn't know till Daemon emailed me last night and said I'm free for now on because patient 0 is dead.
But how would she kill you if you didn't obey since her way of killing is infection and you are immune?!

This is the "fluff" of the role that now is making me more suspicious
I was immune because when patient 0 opened the canister in the crew area I was wearing the hazmat suit. As for how she'd kill me, it doesn't say, only that she saw me, caught up to me and threatened me. Specifically, it said she could kill me immediately if I didn't comply of later on. Do you think if I ask him now he'd respond to that?
I mean you voted for her and she didn't smite you so I'm curious how this murder would have occurred.

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Heffie
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#2520

Post by Heffie »

To add to my last comment, maybe she knew some of her teammates could kill me in other ways when I was no longer useful. She'd have an assured townie kill and one that seemingly voted for innocents. It would be useful for her. Not for me, obviously.

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Heffie
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#2521

Post by Heffie »

Lastly, I want to point out that despite giving every explanation to why I voted behemoth in the beginning @Clemens continues his scum behaviour and @Rene is bandwagonning thinking he's got a way out. You guys could at least be more subtle. I'm a townie through and through and have behaved like it from beginning to end. Can't say the same about you. This is basically the only day you're both this active in the game.

MrWaffles
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#2522

Post by MrWaffles »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:51 pm
To add to my last comment, maybe she knew some of her teammates could kill me in other ways when I was no longer useful. She'd have an assured townie kill and one that seemingly voted for innocents. It would be useful for her. Not for me, obviously.
I don't understand this at all. You have publicly voted to lynch Emilly. If her Mafia teammates could have killed you, wouldn't they have done it last night? Or if Emilly had any power over you, could she not have killed you in a DTA or something?

Unless you are saying the rest of the Mafia did not know about you. But if that is true then how can they kill you for betraying them?

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Heffie
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#2523

Post by Heffie »

I was saying she could tell them (this is my own thinking, I haven't.asked the mod). No one else knew about me, that's why once she died, I became free from the threat of impending death. I never thought to ask how she'd killed me. Based on the description I was there, she saw me and caught up. I wasn't about to ask how patient 0 would've killed me of I was immune to the canister released. I assumed if this person was nefarious, they were able to follow through with their threat. I also had no reason to question the role description Daemon provided. Anyways, I can ask now but can't imagine he'll admit he didn't think about that since he already admitted he didn't think about the issue of people being targeted when they're not in their room because they're using their own NTA.

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Noni
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#2524

Post by Noni »

I hope daemon will reply to your email soon because I don't see any way this contradiction can be explained.
The only thing Emily was blackmailing you with was Killing you - but you're immune to her way of killing

MrWaffles
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#2525

Post by MrWaffles »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 5:11 pm
I was saying she could tell them (this is my own thinking, I haven't.asked the mod). No one else knew about me, that's why once she died, I became free from the threat of impending death. I never thought to ask how she'd killed me. Based on the description I was there, she saw me and caught up. I wasn't about to ask how patient 0 would've killed me of I was immune to the canister released. I assumed if this person was nefarious, they were able to follow through with their threat. I also had no reason to question the role description Daemon provided. Anyways, I can ask now but can't imagine he'll admit he didn't think about that since he already admitted he didn't think about the issue of people being targeted when they're not in their room because they're using their own NTA.
@Heffie, I just checked day 2 votes from when I was keeping track. You did not vote for either Princess.ruxi or Siderite that day. You voted Trigardon and then behemoth. If you didn't die after that, shouldn't you have realised that you could do whatever you wanted?

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Heffie
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#2526

Post by Heffie »

MrWaffles wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 5:15 pm
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 5:11 pm
I was saying she could tell them (this is my own thinking, I haven't.asked the mod). No one else knew about me, that's why once she died, I became free from the threat of impending death. I never thought to ask how she'd killed me. Based on the description I was there, she saw me and caught up. I wasn't about to ask how patient 0 would've killed me of I was immune to the canister released. I assumed if this person was nefarious, they were able to follow through with their threat. I also had no reason to question the role description Daemon provided. Anyways, I can ask now but can't imagine he'll admit he didn't think about that since he already admitted he didn't think about the issue of people being targeted when they're not in their room because they're using their own NTA.
@Heffie, I just checked day 2 votes from when I was keeping track. You did not vote for either Princess.ruxi or Siderite that day. You voted Trigardon and then behemoth. If you didn't die after that, shouldn't you have realised that you could do whatever you wanted?
I figured I'd proven my loyalty with the behemoth vote but I wasn't about to vote for an investigator and be lynched, if those were my options, I was waiting for the mafia to kill me instead. I was using my discretion. Clearly, she went back to behemoth the next night because she had targeted princess after it came out she was an investigator and no one would lynch her.

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#2527

Post by MrWaffles »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 5:38 pm
I figured I'd proven my loyalty with the behemoth vote but I wasn't about to vote for an investigator and be lynched, if those were my options, I was waiting for the mafia to kill me instead. I was using my discretion. Clearly, she went back to behemoth the next night because she had targeted princess after it came out she was an investigator and no one would lynch her.
What about Siderite? No one would have suspected or cared if you voted for him.

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#2528

Post by MrWaffles »

@Heffie, if your orders were to vote for Princess.ruxi and Siderite on D2, and you were afraid that the Mafia would punish you for disobeying, why didn't you vote for Siderite?

And when you didn't and nothing happened to you, why didn't you realise their threat to you was empty?

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phox
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#2529

Post by phox »

@Noni I'll answer later, sorry, but I have some catching up to do on my norwegian courses so I won't be available until tomorrow. Or maybe late at night. I also have to catch up on all the posts beforehand.

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#2530

Post by phox »

Sander wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:41 pm
Noni wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:02 pm
@phox @Gridfon @Sander what are your thoughts about this clemens heffie situation?
Lynch Clemens and Heffie. I don't trust either of them. Heffie has given me a bad vibe since the start. But Clemens is playing the innocent follower when it comes to voting and that's nothing like him. Bobbe is his pet follower. He leads.

My thoughts:

Burn Rene for wanting the town to burn. His DTA is a danger anyway.

Lynch Clemens for having an immune system immune to viruses in a medical research facility that is set on finding a cure. How can we not pull that off when we have the antibodies and even a twin test subject...

Lynch Heffie if Clemens turns out Townie. In core, their role is the same. So not both can be townie. And I don't believe to no NTA stories. Of neither of them. But Clemens has priority due to the above reason.

Lynch zero for having the only NTA that calls people away what caused Joe to die. He didn't save jack. And he is not willing to cooperate.

Skuggi and Gridfon I believe at the moment.
I know I said I'd be back later, but I caught a glance at this and died laughing, let's just kill everyone except gridfon :lol: @Sander you are cracking me up :)

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valli
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#2531

Post by valli »

Sander wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:41 pm
Lynch Clemens and Heffie. I don't trust either of them. Heffie has given me a bad vibe since the start. But Clemens is playing the innocent follower when it comes to voting and that's nothing like him. Bobbe is his pet follower. He leads.
[...]
Concerning @Clemens, like @Sander mentions above, I am also not used to a such passive @Clemens, that is actually something I am thinking the last couple of days. Furthermore why would Daemon replace one role,if that role wouldn't be very important. Right now I do not see the importance of Clemens role ... so that's fishy again... others have not been replaced.

Concerning @Heffie:
MrWaffles wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 5:45 pm
@Heffie, if your orders were to vote for Princess.ruxi and Siderite on D2, and you were afraid that the Mafia would punish you for disobeying, why didn't you vote for Siderite?

And when you didn't and nothing happened to you, why didn't you realise their threat to you was empty?
So you were afraid, but were not afraid? And you cannot be killed but you could be killed? WTF, seriously this sounds like NONESENSE ...

Conerning @Rene:

Did the sun burn your had too much, one useless cocky post after another for the whole day. Please go to bed and leave us in peace. I am looking forward on our appointment at the end of the day. I feel like @Noni with you ...

Summary:
I am stuck between voting Heffie or Clemens...

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Noni
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#2532

Post by Noni »

Same!

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Heffie
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#2533

Post by Heffie »

MrWaffles wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 5:40 pm
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 5:38 pm
I figured I'd proven my loyalty with the behemoth vote but I wasn't about to vote for an investigator and be lynched, if those were my options, I was waiting for the mafia to kill me instead. I was using my discretion. Clearly, she went back to behemoth the next night because she had targeted princess after it came out she was an investigator and no one would lynch her.
What about Siderite? No one would have suspected or cared if you voted for him.
I didn't think voting for Siderite was relevant at all,.it would've been a random thing to do since the focus was on Moxy Vs trigardon and then rad. I signaled some loyalty by initially voting for behemoth and then went to trigardon because of afore mentioned reasons.

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Heffie
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#2534

Post by Heffie »

Just got a response from Daemon regarding my initial role.

He said my role never said I was immune to virus attacks and that I was only immune during the initial canister opening of patient 0 when I was wearing the hazmat suit. I can still be infected and killed as I have no protection and no NTA. It was in reference only to the initial attack and only as cause for explanation as to why I wasn't infected then and why I couldn't see who patient 0 was.

He never said also anything about how I'd be killed, in fact he said I had my own mind and could still choose to do what I want (meaning this is not the same as forced vote where I can only vote for said person) which is why I took my chances and showed some loyalty but used discretion to not be lynched and went for who I thought was actually guilty.

MrWaffles
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#2535

Post by MrWaffles »

Hi all,

My opinion may not mean anything since I have to vote for Rene anyway today, but I feel that Heffie seems far more suspicious than Clemens at this point. Clemens may have some discrepancies regarding his role details, but these are relatively minor and he has at least played consistently and coherently.

Heffie has admitted to helping the Mafia. She has said she had to do it under threat of death, but that does not seem true as she is still here after disobeying Mafia voting orders and voting for Emilly. What's worse is that according to her own story, she probably should have realised after D2 that there would be no consequence for disobeying Mafia and helping the town. But she still seems to have helped Mafia on D3 by not telling the town that behemoth is innocent. In fact her first vote on D3 was for behemoth again.

@Heffie, do you disagree with the above? Can you please give us your side of the story, because perhaps I am making this seem very lopsided. In your defense, I assume there would be much easier roles to claim than the one you have told us, and I probably would have believed you over Clemens had you only mentioned your Hazmat suit.

-MrWaffles

P.S. Unless I am mistaken, on D3 after voting behemoth Heffie voted Sander, unvote, Clemens before first lynch; Siderite, Telvek, Emilly before second lynch; Nanaa before third lynch; Mary before fourth lynch; and Siderite before fifth lynch.

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#2536

Post by MrWaffles »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 8:18 pm
Just got a response from Daemon regarding my initial role.

He said my role never said I was immune to virus attacks and that I was only immune during the initial canister opening of patient 0 when I was wearing the hazmat suit. I can still be infected and killed as I have no protection and no NTA. It was in reference only to the initial attack and only as cause for explanation as to why I wasn't infected then and why I couldn't see who patient 0 was.

He never said also anything about how I'd be killed, in fact he said I had my own mind and could still choose to do what I want (meaning this is not the same as forced vote where I can only vote for said person) which is why I took my chances and showed some loyalty but used discretion to not be lynched and went for who I thought was actually guilty.
I'm sorry, I posted my other message just now without seeing that you had commented.

Does this mean that the Mafia would kill you using their standard night attack (infection)? If that's the case, why would they even bother? If you have no NTA and don't know who any of them are (besides Emilly I guess), why wouldn't they rather attack someone more important even if you did disobey them?

-MrWaffles

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#2537

Post by Heffie »

I've already said I was only doing that out of loyalty to keep myself alive. You'll see that as soon as I locked on to the guilty parties on day 3, I was done with the behemoth thing, she seems innocent to me and Emily was clearly guilty. I took time with her the way I took time with Clemens to explain why I think they're guilty.

If you want to lynch me because of my role and for having been under Emily's influence right before I made sure she was lynched, that's fine but you'll lose another townie at a point where we can't afford to. Why would I have tried so hard to lynch her? Anyways, I'm glad she's dead and I'm free, but if that's the reason you end up killing a townie, there's nothing I can do about it. I've even gone to get clarity from Daemon on all aspects of my role. In my opinion, there are others who are actual mafia and potential psycho. You could also investigate me to see I don't go anywhere at night and not infected and never have been.

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Heffie
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#2538

Post by Heffie »

MrWaffles wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 8:43 pm
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 8:18 pm
Just got a response from Daemon regarding my initial role.

He said my role never said I was immune to virus attacks and that I was only immune during the initial canister opening of patient 0 when I was wearing the hazmat suit. I can still be infected and killed as I have no protection and no NTA. It was in reference only to the initial attack and only as cause for explanation as to why I wasn't infected then and why I couldn't see who patient 0 was.

He never said also anything about how I'd be killed, in fact he said I had my own mind and could still choose to do what I want (meaning this is not the same as forced vote where I can only vote for said person) which is why I took my chances and showed some loyalty but used discretion to not be lynched and went for who I thought was actually guilty.
I'm sorry, I posted my other message just now without seeing that you had commented.

Does this mean that the Mafia would kill you using their standard night attack (infection)? If that's the case, why would they even bother? If you have no NTA and don't know who any of them are (besides Emilly I guess), why wouldn't they rather attack someone more important even if you did disobey them?

-MrWaffles
See my earlier post, they would know I'm a townie for sure. They'd have more to gain by my being alive and causing suspicion on other innocents but if they needed to get rid of someone they'd be able to do so quite easily. I don't know what the balance between the factions is but I'm sure there are benefits for her trying to get other factions lynched during the day and killing townies at night.

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#2539

Post by Bombaclaat »

I don't think we have gained any really useful information today and I'd be willing to risk lynching the most suspect player or quite frankly not lynching anyone.

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#2540

Post by Clemens »

Alright, I'm back, let's see what happened.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:07 pm
Actually, patient 0 threatened to then kill me instantly or later if I didn't follow their threats during the day.
N1: she said I should vote for behemoth
N2: she said to shift my attentions to princess.ruxi and Siderite (this part along with his role claim is what confirmed the crazies faction to me)
N3: she told me to focus on behemoth again

After that message on N3 I was pretty done with these random orders sent by message and much like EC was willing to die if she'd kill me for not heeding them. I still didn't know who patient 0 was, I didn't know if she was the one messaging me or if other infected mafia could. From what I'd seen from @behemoth I was pretty certain she was a townie.
Why didn't you say so sooner, when we had nothing better to do than sit on our thumbs?
You gave us your role claim, but only after I attacked you did you think of sharing this important part?
I really don't understand your playstyle.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:57 pm
I'm a townie through and through and have behaved like it from beginning to end. Can't say the same about you.
There is no definition of 100% townie nor 100% mafia.
Anyone that hides behind textbook definitions like that is not being honest to themselves nor anyone else.

Besides, @Emilly might still be alive if she hadn't tried to save @Mary and attempt to accuse me of being a Godfather - she was too greedy.
Remember who called her out?
Probably not, since you're skimming everything I'm saying.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:57 pm
This is basically the only day you're both this active in the game.
Really? I haven't been active in the previous game day? :roll: Really now?
By the way, have you at least noticed that the reason I wasn't active in the first and second game day was because I hadn't existed yet?
You know what the textbook says about players that skim posts? :lol:
valli wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 7:08 pm
Furthermore why would Daemon replace one role,if that role wouldn't be very important. Right now I do not see the importance of Clemens role ... so that's fishy again... others have not been replaced.
If you want to meta-game it, it's because @pelasgi held the secret to N1's failed infect-attempt, which also lets doctors know they hadn't saved someone, and also lets everyone know the duration of the infect-to-death period.
Another reason could be that since the others were inactive, they may not even have used any of their NTAs (assuming they had some) - so no useful information there.
It's also possible he just randomly chose one, as that's how he distributed all the roles to begin with.
Sander wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:41 pm
But Clemens is playing the innocent follower when it comes to voting and that's nothing like him. Bobbe is his pet follower. He leads.
That's because I have no NTA, have no more other night time information, and have really no clue who is. Ergo, I have no leads to go on and lynching for the sake of lynching is not smart.

Regardless, @Heffie's role is full of contradictions and lacks depth, so my vote will remain. (At least until it's @Rene's turn.) Her role sounds made up, changing her story whenever something doesn't add up, but also sounds like she never actually thought about her role before now. Her arguments are so factually wrong that they can only come from completely ignoring everything.
She's either a bad Mafia liar, or ...no, I refuse to believe that anyone could be this ignorant while being innocent.
valli wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 7:08 pm
I am stuck between voting Heffie or Clemens...
Sander wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:41 pm
Lynch Clemens and Heffie. I don't trust either of them.
However, if you wish to lynch me first and promise to lynch her after once I turn out innocent, you'd have my blessing.
I have no NTAs and my role's secrets (e.g. the N1 infect-attempt) are already out there for the townies to use; I have nothing else to contribute other than point out suspicions and contradictions in other claims. A 1:1 trade-off should be worth it.
But please do so sooner rather than later, so that you can deal with me, her, and then @Rene in due time.

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#2541

Post by Skuggi »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 8:18 pm
Just got a response from Daemon regarding my initial role.

He said my role never said I was immune to virus attacks and that I was only immune during the initial canister opening of patient 0 when I was wearing the hazmat suit. I can still be infected and killed as I have no protection and no NTA. It was in reference only to the initial attack and only as cause for explanation as to why I wasn't infected then and why I couldn't see who patient 0 was.
So to clarify, you are no longer claiming to be immune to infection, as you did in your original role declaration, and saying you have no abilities, passive or active, whatsoever?

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#2542

Post by Heffie »

Correct. Just a regular townie.

On another note, @MrWaffles was it you who was showing us the tables of who voted to kill who the entire game? If so, can we have another look. So far,.I've only helped lynch the guilty unlike some of my accusers, so I think we should take another look because that is ultimately the bottom line.

My defense:
- not infected, just a townie
- no NTA
- voted only to lynch the guilty
- biggest proponent to voting off actual patient 0

Other.than this, can't add anything. I'd welcome any investigation of it will help confirm anything.

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#2543

Post by Gridfon »

Disclaimer: I'm writing down my comments in real-time, as I read through several pages of posts. Some of my comments might sound outdated.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:58 am
About my role, I'm a researcher and specifically in the field of environmental biology.
What is your exact role name?
Clemens wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:19 pm
Fortunately, @Heffie wasn't the most active of players, so going through her posts is easier than some others.
Ok. Let's play this game. This is what I wrote down for myself prior to reading your post. I did not find any red flags, but the direct accusations of Moxy lying in Day 1 sounded uncomfortable to me.

Code: Select all

Heffie:
------------------------
Day 1: 15 posts // Went after Moxy aggressively, but demanded to hear from Trigardon first. Suspicious of Behemoth.
Day 2: 7  posts // Lynched Trigardon. Still suspicious of Behemoth.
Day 3: 24 posts // Now pointing at behemoth as someone inactive. Doubts the EC claims about Mary. Very briefly attacks each of Sander, Gridfon and Clemens - but nothing sticks. Helped lynch Emilly (#2013), then helped with the rest.

#270: "I'd rather knock on this door and get more information and be sure of a lynch (Moxy) than just pull the trigger without due diligence and be potentially wrong."
#281: "you lied about your role and being a good guy"
#471: "since you lied about so much else, there's no way to know if you actually don't have teammates and ..."
#1583: // "I've had this unusual immune system before this entire ordreal, albeit with side-effects" @Clemens what are these side effects you've mentioned? //
#1680: Interaction with Emilly.
#1721: "We're never gonna get through our plans today if people don't vote so I was going to suggest that those who can investigate him, do so tonight." - honey trap?
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:31 pm
Thanks for taking the time to go through my posts, at least it shows more commitment than just attacking me becAuse I'm a researcher.
You're welcome. So what is your exact role name?
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:14 pm
10) In post #1199
There might be some players who get converted into mafia instead of dying next day, and you might be one of them (e.g. it depends on your immune system)
I don't even know what you were trying to say here. We know people get infected, patient 0 has been the one infecting them. Are you admitting the ones with a bad immune system died whereas some of you get infected because of your immune systems? Sounds like you basically admitted being infected.
You are attributing my post to Clemens. Let me also note that the entire thing start with me saying "Let's brainstorm some crazy ideas". I do not believe that converting townies to mafia is an actual NTA mechanic in this game.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:07 pm
Actually, patient 0 threatened to then kill me instantly or later if I didn't follow their threats during the day.
I find this very hard to believe.
unvote Heffie
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:07 pm
I still didn't know who patient 0 was, I didn't know if she was the one messaging me or if other infected mafia could.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:27 pm
According to Daemon only Emily knew of my existence since she was the patient 0 I saw open the canister as part of my role description. She knew who I was the whole time, but I didn't know till Daemon emailed me last night and said I'm free for now on because patient 0 is dead.
Clearly, entire mafia knew of your existence. They can communicate at night, after all.
But the fluff says that with Emily dying, the rest of the mafia players will conveniently forget they had any power over you?
Sander wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:41 pm
Noni wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:02 pm
@phox @Gridfon @Sander what are your thoughts about this clemens heffie situation?
Lynch Clemens and Heffie. I don't trust either of them.
I agree, one of them has to be a mafia. The only hard decision we need to make is: whom do we trust less? Best case scenario: we lynch the mafia player first, and meanwhile the 2nd player convinces us they are innocent. It is possible that both belong to mafia, but Behemoth looks like a townie with a physical immunity to me. So I want to believe that either Clemens or Heffie is a townie with an infection immunity... With our numbers dwindling, I would like to guess which one of the two is mafia immediately, not after accidentally lynching a townie first.
Sander wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:41 pm
Burn Rene for wanting the town to burn. His DTA is a danger anyway.
How does one end a day, anyway? My personal go-to choice is to run some denial of service attack against NewronComm.

However, I am not too bothered with Rene. His logic made sense, and if he lied - he'll get lynched today (if he cannot end day) or tomorrow (if he ends the day by evil means).
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:57 pm
Lastly, I want to point out that despite giving every explanation to why I voted behemoth in the beginning @Clemens continues his scum behaviour and @Rene is bandwagonning thinking he's got a way out. You guys could at least be more subtle. I'm a townie through and through and have behaved like it from beginning to end. Can't say the same about you. This is basically the only day you're both this active in the game.
From my earlier notes:
Rene: (Day 1: 29 posts; Day 2: 6 posts; Day 3: 11 posts)
Heffie: (Day 1: 15 posts; Day 2: 7 posts; Day 3: 24 posts)
Clemens: I dare not count, he certainly posted more than 100 times in Day 3, that's a waste of time to count...
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 5:38 pm
I figured I'd proven my loyalty with the behemoth vote but I wasn't about to vote for an investigator and be lynched, if those were my options, I was waiting for the mafia to kill me instead. I was using my discretion. Clearly, she went back to behemoth the next night because she had targeted princess after it came out she was an investigator and no one would lynch her.
You either go along with mafia, or you submit to being punished by them and make sure to leave a last will message implying that Behemoth is innocent. Why did you do neither of the two. On the one hand you say you disobeyed mafia (to the extent that sounded reasonable to you), but you also waited for them to kill you for that, but you did not bother to clear Behemoth's name?
valli wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 7:08 pm
Sander wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:41 pm
Lynch Clemens and Heffie. I don't trust either of them. Heffie has given me a bad vibe since the start. But Clemens is playing the innocent follower when it comes to voting and that's nothing like him. Bobbe is his pet follower. He leads.
[...]
Concerning @Clemens, like @Sander mentions above, I am also not used to a such passive @Clemens, that is actually something I am thinking the last couple of days. Furthermore why would Daemon replace one role,if that role wouldn't be very important. Right now I do not see the importance of Clemens role ... so that's fishy again... others have not been replaced.
I agree on both accounts, I mentioned it in slightly different contexts before:
Gridfon wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:13 pm
Because I'm sure Clemens will promptly respond. He will provide more possibilities of him having traces of infection in his room. He will come up with ways to cast doubt on my role. I don't really need to vote against him, he'll come at me himself.
Gridfon wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:35 am
What puzzles me is that in response to my role declaration, I expected that Clemens would double down on this strategy. I was sure that he would not attempt to lynch me (if he lynches me and my role is confirmed - he's the next on the chopping block), but he would maintain constant focus on me being suspicious throughout the days, attempting to keep me perpetually alive but discredited. That did not happen yet, and it puzzles me somewhat. This is not the Clemens I know.
As for the role replacement, I do not think Daemon convinced Clemens to replace someone because that role was important. I think Daemon convinced Clemens to replace someone, but then Daemon would choose the most fun and important of the available roles for Clemens.
Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 8:18 pm
He said my role never said I was immune to virus attacks and that I was only immune during the initial canister opening of patient 0 when I was wearing the hazmat suit. I can still be infected and killed as I have no protection and no NTA. It was in reference only to the initial attack and only as cause for explanation as to why I wasn't infected then and why I couldn't see who patient 0 was.
That's a convenient backtracking from the role claim.
But without the immunity, what's the point of your role, fluff-/story- wise? Do you become just an aspiring (although somewhat frightened) sidekick for the big boys and girls in the mafia team?

------------
Daemon wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:50 pm
One would sit down and meditate upon the definite misfortune of having been the trigger of it all. But she was about to experience the cold treatment, at the hands of mere pink bags of water, good only to be used as replicating machines.
If there is one defense Heffie might have, it is presented in the above fluff.

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#2544

Post by Gridfon »

Sigh.
unvote Bombaclaat
vote Heffie

MrWaffles
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#2545

Post by MrWaffles »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:22 pm
Correct. Just a regular townie.

On another note, @MrWaffles was it you who was showing us the tables of who voted to kill who the entire game? If so, can we have another look. So far,.I've only helped lynch the guilty unlike some of my accusers, so I think we should take another look because that is ultimately the bottom line.

My defense:
- not infected, just a townie
- no NTA
- voted only to lynch the guilty
- biggest proponent to voting off actual patient 0

Other.than this, can't add anything. I'd welcome any investigation of it will help confirm anything.
I believe the tables came from Bombaclaat. For example, post #2054. However I have an Excel file with all votes for the first three days. I can paste or attach whatever you would like from that.

For yourself, you voted behemoth then Trigardon on D1. On D2 you voted Trigardon as part of his lynch (I was part of the lynch as well though), and after the lynch you voted behemoth again that same day. I listed your D3 votes on post #2535.

-MrWaffles

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#2546

Post by Gridfon »

Bombaclaat wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:34 am
Gridfon wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:19 am
Bombaclaat wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:07 am
I'm a psychologist and deamon passively feeds me with cryptic information that people confide in me which hasn't really been very useful apart from shedding a bit of light on the conspiracy theorists. Daemon is having a whole lot of fun with them btw they have peculiar abilities some of which are not spelled out to players in his delay reports or even when other players are targeted. I can confirm that the conspiracy faction has a way to win this game. When I got my role I got some fluff about us being in an isolated place far away from family and friends.
Can you elaborate more?
Can you point at specific players about which you learned some information?
What are the peculiar abilities you mentioned?
What did you learn this night?
1) That's pretty much the jist of it...
2) In the first night got something along the lines of He was the greatest of American presidents he actually did a lot for the people like blah blah blah... and I'm like U wat mate.... Then Siderite quotes FDR.
3) I'm not sure about all the details but in the event the mafia dies you're still not in the clear until you get every last one of them. Killing them before that might hamper you significantly.
4) I'd be happy to tell you but honestly it wouldn't be beneficial to the town if I revealed it... ...this early in the day.
A lot has happened, and an instant lynch is possible in near future.
4) So what did you learn this night?
We need this information before our first instant lynch today.

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Bombaclaat
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#2547

Post by Bombaclaat »

Gridfon wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:46 pm
A lot has happened, and an instant lynch is possible in near future.
4) So what did you learn this night?
We need this information before our first instant lynch today.
Paranoid rant about people in the hallways. "They're watching me" and "He didn't leave his room before." All implying a whole lot of NTAs being used last night and some of them by players that usually don't leave their rooms. A bit different from the others as I could not discern some quote or allusions to specific types of conspiracies. All suggesting a very active night while I literally have no idea what ya'll have been up to.

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Noni
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#2548

Post by Noni »

There was activity on n4 but it appears on the town side.

MrWaffles
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#2549

Post by MrWaffles »

Heffie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:22 pm
My defense:
- voted only to lynch the guilty
By the way, I double checked, and you were indeed part of the vote to lynch Trigardon on post #746 (and again, so was I). I believe he turned out to be a Security Guard.

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phox
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#2550

Post by phox »

pffffffffffffffff. I am still reading through a million posts. I promise I will change my vote, based on my decision after I read all the info.

Locked