Mafia 1 - The CROWN - GAME OVER!

Guilt is a numbers game.
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Noni
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#2301

Post by Noni »

behemoth wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 9:18 am
As promised, my post about Noni:)

I must begin with a little disclaimer though. It is possible that I have a major blind spot and my perspective on this is skewed. My suspicions started out with just an instinctive feeling, and based on that instinct, I gathered what facts I could. And while these facts definitely allow room for subjective interpretation, taken as a whole they at least raise a red flag for me.

First there is the matter of her role. So far the proportion of investigative roles seems to be favoring the town: Joesatri detected whether players left their rooms, Radwulf detected acute infection symptoms, Princess detected player activity at night, EC knew his twin was corrupted, Grifdon detects traces of infection in rooms, and Bombaclaat can possibly detect the crazies. Add to this Noni's claimed role that she can detect someone's visitors at night.
  • This role is similar to Princess and Joe's, but they performed their roles using technology (access logs, webcam), whereas Noni's role involves her physically hanging around the rooms with a clipboard. If these three roles were meant to be complimentary, I think the methodology would have been consistent.
  • Is it plausible that in the interest of maintaining balance, her NTA is accurate but it actually serves the mafia.. in which case this would be a mafia spy type of role.
  • Regarding your target for N2 - i.e., me - can you share why you picked me? I was not a highly visible player, nor one of the controversial ones at that point, and it seems that you could have gotten a better return by choosing someone else.
  • Last but not least, I still have a problem with the fact that Sander's role declaration didn't ring any alarm bells for her. He was considered highly suspicious at that point, he was providing conflicting info about his role, and his role title was nearly identical to hers. The pro town thing to do would have been to call him out or at least raise the question - hey, does it make sense to have two of the same function (manager/administrator).
Secondly there is the matter of pro town behavior, and as I've stated before, she does seem like the ultimate townie. Now if she's mafia, it's an even greater compliment, because it's that much harder to accomplish that feat by dissimulation. However, this is what mafia do for a living, and the good ones do it really well. This is where we get into the more subjective waters of my expose, but hear me out:
  • She was the one who first exposed Moxy's lie/contradiction, which eventually led to his being killed. Now if she's a townie, this is great powers of observation to have on our side, chances are someone else would have caught that if she didn't, and it's unfortunate that Moxy turned out to be good after all. But the devil's advocate scenario might go something like this: Mafia is in a position to catch glaring inconsistencies from townies more easily, and they also stand to gain more by being the first ones to expose them. They can have such a person lynched without bringing undue suspicion on themselves when that person dies and turns out to be townie, and in the process they can build credibility as a helpful player even if the ending is not a happy one. Noni played this to perfection by pointing our the contradiction and letting it play its course. When the debate was at its hottest she kind of stayed out of it, shifted her focus to Trig at one point, and then towards the end of the day came back with a few comments against Moxy. She didn't call too much attention to herself or cross the line into the kind of vehemence that gets people asking questions.
  • She was also one of the main instigators in Radwulf's lynch by egging players on for the votes that eventually sealed his fate. While she provided a logical and coherent explanation for that, the outcome still remains.
  • She demonstrated pro town behavior in taking out the crazy faction, but this would also serve the mafia and therefore does not go a long way in giving her extra credibility points.
  • She demonstrated pro town behavior by playing an important role in Emily's demise. I haven't looked closely at the interactions between them prior to Emilly's lie being exposed, so one thing I will go back to look at is whether she might fit the profile of the person who "betrayed" / hurt Emily's feelings.

@Noni - If I'm being paranoid and you do happen to actually be the ultimate townie, my hat off to you along with my apology, as I do find your style of play quite endearing:) However, there must be at least one very clever mafia in this game, and based on the above conjectures it may be you. These could be just little coincidences or disjointed facts, or they could be more than that - I haven't made up my own mind yet, so I'm curious if anyone else is seeing any red flags here or if it's just my hyperactive imagination.
I hate super long posts but since i am the sole object of this one i will dedicate it my full time and effort and try to reply to every single point.

About your instincts - can't really comment to that. They may usually be right on target which is great for you. Mine are sometimes right on target and sometimes way off. Usually i tend to follow my instincts right when they kick in as i am quite impulsive - so i can't really fault you for listening to your instincts. is it possible that you have a major blind spot in this case? YES:)

Regarding the roles- i'm not sure what is in that head of daemon's but i don't think he likes your standard good roles standard bad roles. i think MANY of them can be interpreted as being used by the good side or by the bad side. in this case we kind of have to make up our minds on whether we believe someone and go with it. Regarding the amount of investigation roles YES there are many but looks like we've not done the best job so far working together to get the scum lynched (not in the first couple of days anyway). IF EC would have come straight out and killed himself, Mary would still be alive. I have to admit she wasn't that suspicious to me through her play and it was only due to EC willing to die that i bought into his claims.IF Emily would not have made that role claim that totally contradicted my info from the mod i probably would not have voted for her either. SO--- while there are many investigative roles there is also confusion about at least 2 other factions and god knows what other NTAs on the mafia side which balances the game out. So i'm sure Daemon has thought about this stuff when he assigned the roles.

FYI there is a lurker role and a lookout role which BOTH have the same NTA one is pro town one is pro scum if we are now looking that closely into what could have gone through daemon's head when he came up with this marvellous game which literally taken over my life (I LOVE IT).

i picked you as my target as i think you are a very clever player (i don't know exactly when and during which old mafia game i drew that conclusion but it has stuck with me). now if i was mafia i would try to eliminate my strongest opponents during the night, which is why i checked radwuld on n1 and you on n2 as i thought you'd be the main targets of the mafia. I have applied this logic later on in the game and i will come back to this when the time is right. unfortunately on d1 i thought that i was getting info on people coming/going which is why i assumed radwulf didn't have any info about anyone. i cleared this up and explained it afterwards.

Regarding sander's role declaration - to me lab administrator is not the same thing as facilities manager. i consider a manager to be the head of something, the boss. administrator is not even a high up job at all in my eyes. i didn't think there was a strong contradiction. HAD i been mafia and such a good player as you keep saying (not that i mind:) DON'T YOU THINK I WOULD HAVE USED THIS OPPORTUNITY to try and lynch sander?! i did mention that some things may not add up from what he says but i defended him against lynching and remember stating that it seems like ha has an important role and we should keep him around.

i'm not going to defend myself against ''townie behaviour''. that is just ridiculous. imagine if i had to change the way i play just to seem less townie so my fellow townies don't think i'm too townie becoming suspicious of me. sorry but i can't:)
maybe it's from the way i post, but i post in a way that makes this game fun for me. long posts like these are not my favourite, super analytical posts are not like me either. so you can judge me on this all you want, still thinks it's ridiculous. have you used that word enough times in a paragraph to get this point across?!:)

the first day i was forced to vote zero (confirmed by phox who i don't know how she had such good intuition as zero is my all time nemesis from the old forum. the person who i can always get in a fight with even if we agree on something:). i wasn't going to let that affect my implication in the day's discussions. i would have voted for moxie if i could. he played badly. it stood out. of course i caught the lie it was pretty obvious. if i hadn't someone else would have.
Again the part of me not calling attention to myself is just completely wrong. I ALWAYS call attention to myself. even when i'm not saying anything important. i think if you look at the number of posts i have you will realise that there is no way i am trying to slip under any radar.

so there is my long post and i think and hope i've answered everything. in such a huge mafia game there is cleverness and there is also luck. There are soooooo many variables. What if Telvek and Adela weren't inactive? what if silvestru didn't quit? what if ec didn't decide to go all kamikaze and kill himself to get rid of mary? what if clemens was right and he was targeted on n1 - what are the odds of mafia targeting the one person immune to the infection?! anybody can react in any way to anything - so your interpretation of my behaviour is just that. i don't hold it against you and i'll take it as a compliment. i think you should though try to see it from my perspective too before you make your mind up that i am scum.

my fingers hurt. bye

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Noni
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#2302

Post by Noni »

Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:15 am
Clemens wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 10:59 am
And your inability to vote doesn't make a difference to your own defense either.
First of all, I'm not even defending myself. Putting me up and asking for my defense this early on is a distraction. Be it intentional or a honest mistake. Don't fall for it. Vote inability doesn't make any difference on my fate before day 4 ends. But it makes a lot of sense in the short run of making most of day 4.

I'll put my defense up there at the deadline. Rest assured. That's despite knowing now is the better time to relieve the doubts people have about me, as deadline comes closer people just tend to trust their prior instincts and vote.

Focus your attention on the true evils. Then come for me, if you must.

For the last time I'm begging, unvote me.
i'm off today so i will be checking the forum regularly. if you are in danger of instant lynch i will take my vote off you. but i need something more from you cause at the moment it seems like you haven't figured out a good role and are stalling.

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#2303

Post by valli »

Reading all of this the most weird posts today are coming from Sander and Rene.

@Sander what are you writing today is totally weird, I cannot follow your reasoning, but like you would call me anyway scum (same as Gridfon). WTF?

@Rene I am sorry but your role claim does not satisfy me as well, you are dodging around and trying to stall things till the end of the day. I don't buy right now and as Clemens stated before, I'm getting in lynch mood again ... so for your own sake explain yourself.

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#2304

Post by Rene »

Noni wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:38 am
i'm off today so i will be checking the forum regularly. if you are in danger of instant lynch i will take my vote off you. but i need something more from you cause at the moment it seems like you haven't figured out a good role and are stalling.
Both of your assumptions are wrong and when I come out, all my efforts will make sense. I could very well make my defense right away, but I am telling you wholeheartedly it's better to stay focused on the other suspects.

And thank you for the reassurance, but after so many posts, humble requests with logical explanations to why voting me is counter productive, I just don't get why would anyone keep their vote on me, at all.

Just ignore me for a while and I'll give you what you want to know about me when you need it the most.
@Rene I am sorry but your role claim does not satisfy me as well, you are dodging around and trying to stall things till the end of the day. I don't buy right now and as Clemens stated before, I'm getting in lynch mood again ... so for your own sake explain yourself.
Really? You too, sigh.

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#2305

Post by Sander »

valli wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:47 am
Reading all of this the most weird posts today are coming from Sander and Rene.

@Sander what are you writing today is totally weird, I cannot follow your reasoning, but like you would call me anyway scum (same as Gridfon). WTF?
If it helps, I'd call Rene it too. IT's cause you are savage players, and I'm resentful. That's why I said I wouldn't give my opinion about you.

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#2306

Post by valli »

Sander wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:53 am
valli wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:47 am
Reading all of this the most weird posts today are coming from Sander and Rene.

@Sander what are you writing today is totally weird, I cannot follow your reasoning, but like you would call me anyway scum (same as Gridfon). WTF?
If it helps, I'd call Rene it too. IT's cause you are savage players, and I'm resentful. That's why I said I wouldn't give my opinion about you.
Did not know that we had that much to do with each other in our Savage career so that one should be resentful ... but yeah ;)

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#2307

Post by Clemens »

Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:15 am
Focus your attention on the true evils. Then come for me, if you must.
Alright, then instead let me ask - who do you suggest are the "true evils"?

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#2308

Post by valli »

Clemens wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:02 pm
Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:15 am
Focus your attention on the true evils. Then come for me, if you must.
Alright, then instead let me ask - who do you suggest are the "true evils"?
I would be interested as well :)

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#2309

Post by MrWaffles »

Hi @Rene,

Can you explain in general terms why you don't want to reveal your role / NTA? I don't understand who you feel like you are in danger from. The town has a revealed doctor and several investigators, so I really doubt the Mafia would prioritize you for killing.

If your role is something that the town may misjudge you for, I imagine your role is probably still easier to explain than mine. I claimed to be the cook at a time when a lot of people were saying that the cook must be Mafia. Although I have earned quite a bit of suspicion, I feel the town will wait for more definite proof rather than lynching someone just based on a feeling. Of course, I could be wrong about that to my own detriment :-).

-MrWaffles

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#2310

Post by Skuggi »

phox wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 10:53 am
1. @Skuggi so sneaky of you to blow my post completely out of context, I posted that very soon after valli disclosed his role, back when I thought he was a copycat, after he brought more info I admitted I was wrong and apologized

2." til the end is WRONG" , rene was the one that defended her til the end in case you forgot, and ruxi and behemoth defended her longer than I did.

I changed my opinion and vote before them, Ruxi even told me "phox what are you doing, don't let them confuse you!!!" and behemoth was poking around about vallis nta and saying we might have 2 people with the exact same role.
so what you said makes no sense at all @Skuggi and it's probably an attempt to shift the blame from yourself.
I'm not really sure what to do with that. I'm not sure where anything was taken out of context. To me, you stood out among the people defending Emilly as you did it so vehemently and it seemed like she was relying on you to do so. It also felt strange that you attacked all the people bringing forward reasonable questions and arguments (including myself).

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#2311

Post by Noni »

To be fair @phox you did go back and forth a million times at least

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#2312

Post by Noni »

@Rene what you are saying at the moment is :
I know you have no reason to believe me but believe me because it's for the best, believe me.

See why people have a problem with this? :)

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#2313

Post by Noni »

unvote Rene temporarily and to show some good faith.
Come forward and explain

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#2314

Post by valli »

Skuggi wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:08 pm
I'm not really sure what to do with that. I'm not sure where anything was taken out of context. To me, you stood out among the people defending Emilly as you did it so vehemently and it seemed like she was relying on you to do so. It also felt strange that you attacked all the people bringing forward reasonable questions and arguments (including myself).
Noni wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:11 pm
To be fair @phox you did go back and forth a million times at least
Just to mention it, that is why I investigated @phox last night. => Result was that @phox is not invected.

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#2315

Post by Noni »

@Sander man, you're not helping this game by harbouring resentment from another game. Every Mafia game should be a fresh start. That's why it's so great.
So you gotta start helping and also stop lying if you are still lying about anything.

I feel like daemon should have given me a therapist role too

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#2316

Post by Clemens »

valli wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:17 pm
Just to mention it, that is why I investigated @phox last night. => Result was that @phox is not invected.
I was wondering when you'd tell us what you found last night. :roll:

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#2317

Post by MrWaffles »

By the way, is anyone lethally infected today? Shouldn't we be checking this every day for clues about who visited whom?

-MrWaffles

Rene
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#2318

Post by Rene »

Clemens wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:02 pm
Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:15 am
Focus your attention on the true evils. Then come for me, if you must.
Alright, then instead let me ask - who do you suggest are the "true evils"?
Okay, so. I've no concrete evidence, but we've 13 people alive.

And this is a blunt summary, but as far as I know these are the claims made that I'm aware of:

Sander - claimed doctor
Rene - claimed no NTA
Zero - claimed a guard/transporter role
Noni - claims lookout, NTA actually caught an infected person
Valli - claims investigator, role and NTA were forged %100 alike by an infected person
Phox - therapist has a will with NTAs matching with people's confirmations
Clemens - claims a self infecting researcher/patient
Bombaclaat -psychiatrist/therapist ?? NTA reveal makes no sense at all
Gridfon - claims an investigator
behemoth - another therapist?
Heffie ???
MrWaffles - our most skilled chef
Skuggi ???

So yeah, I'd get information that we lack from Skuggi and Heffie first at this point, then ask for detailed NTAs from Bombaclaat and behemoth, as phox already shared theirs. The mandatory cleaning action, still isn't revealed with the deaths so far.

You're all intent on pushing me despite i'm vote locked and I've been crying out loud that it's more beneficial for us to lynch me last. But you all just ignored Bombaclaat asking for the very same thing, despite being able to vote, and vanishing out of sight?

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#2319

Post by Skuggi »

valli wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:17 pm
Just to mention it, that is why I investigated @phox last night. => Result was that @phox is not invected.
Fair enough. I guess you're off the hook, @phox :)

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#2320

Post by Rene »

Thank you @Noni.
@MrWaffles, @Valli if you can bear with me for a bit longer that'll be worth the wait. But if you and all the others want a definite answer so you can focus, I can give you that as well. It's just better for the town, if I hold onto it for now.

And don't worry, you'll hear of it before the day ends, either way.

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#2321

Post by Noni »

Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:28 pm
Thank you @Noni.
@MrWaffles, @Valli if you can bear with me for a bit longer that'll be worth the wait. But if you and all the others want a definite answer so you can focus, I can give you that as well. It's just better for the town, if I hold onto it for now.

And don't worry, you'll hear of it before the day ends, either way.
What you didn't mention in your post is the heffie and skuggi both look very clean after yesterday. Which is more than I can say about you.

I'm more curious than anything and your big reveal why you can't give us the role. I unvoted you because you may go crazy like sander when he feels attacked and invent a bunch of crap-very much want to avoid that :)
My suspicion still lies with you.

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#2322

Post by phox »

the game day or today ? @Rene

Thanks @valli for setting the record straight.

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#2323

Post by valli »

Clemens wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:20 pm
valli wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:17 pm
Just to mention it, that is why I investigated @phox last night. => Result was that @phox is not invected.
I was wondering when you'd tell us what you found last night. :roll:
You always have to watch how things evolve :mrgreen:
You could've asked anytime anyway.

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#2324

Post by Skuggi »

Unfortunately, I will be gone for much of the next 24 hours (IRL), and it may be difficult for me to respond. As I am already facing questions about inactivity I am going to make a role declaration now. I haven't done so yet as nobody asked, and it didn't feel relevant. However, there are only a few people who have yet to do so (as Rene points out), and it seems like the most important ones are already out.

I am a Research Assistant. I do the dirty work for the researchers, such as preparing and sterilising their equipment. I have one canister of biocide used for decontaminating the hazmat suits. When someone in a weakened state is expose to it, they will die. Healthy people will manage to recover over the course of the day with on-site medical assistance. Needless to say, I haven't used it yet.

I have been tempted to use it, but have decided against it so far as I haven't been confident enough about a good target.

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#2325

Post by Clemens »

Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:28 pm
And don't worry, you'll hear of it before the day ends, either way.
I'll hold you to that.

Just to correct you on some:
Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:26 pm
Clemens - claims a self infecting researcher/patient
Claims Researcher with viral immunity and no NTA.
Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:26 pm
behemoth - another therapist?
Claims fitness-related with physical immunity and no NTA.

Skuggi wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:35 pm
I am a Research Assistant. I do the dirty work for the researchers, such as preparing and sterilising their equipment. I have one canister of biocide used for decontaminating the hazmat suits. When someone in a weakened state is expose to it, they will die. Healthy people will manage to recover over the course of the day with on-site medical assistance. Needless to say, I haven't used it yet.
So you're claiming to be a vigilante?
What do you think about the hammer kill then?

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#2326

Post by Sander »

Skuggi wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:35 pm
When someone in a weakened state is expose to it, they will die. Healthy people will manage to recover over the course of the day with on-site medical assistance. Needless to say, I haven't used it yet.
That's curious. That's how they are killing us. They infect and they can only be saved the same moment they are infected. Afterwards they are to far gone to be saved.

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valli
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#2327

Post by valli »

Sander wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:46 pm
Skuggi wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:35 pm
When someone in a weakened state is expose to it, they will die. Healthy people will manage to recover over the course of the day with on-site medical assistance. Needless to say, I haven't used it yet.
That's curious. That's how they are killing us. They infect and they can only be saved the same moment they are infected. Afterwards they are to far gone to be saved.
The question is whether a weakened state counts as being invected (i.e. Mafia is invected), because the people which get invected with the "L" virus strain are anyway doomed and skuggi could never target them (or actually he could but it would be senseless).

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#2328

Post by Skuggi »

Clemens wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:44 pm
Skuggi wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:35 pm
I am a Research Assistant. I do the dirty work for the researchers, such as preparing and sterilising their equipment. I have one canister of biocide used for decontaminating the hazmat suits. When someone in a weakened state is expose to it, they will die. Healthy people will manage to recover over the course of the day with on-site medical assistance. Needless to say, I haven't used it yet.
So you're claiming to be a vigilante?
What do you think about the hammer kill then?
Yes, I am a vigilante. In hindsight, the hammer kill seems out of touch with the the other deaths by the mafia, which are clearly due to virus infection. The fact that it was done so early in the game leads me to believe it was done by the baddies. I wonder if it was done by the third faction, but it seems like Daemon left a clue about maintenance personnel. I didn't really see any connection between the conspirators and maintenance. To be fair, only Nanaa actually claimed a role to my knowledge. We don't know what blissie and Siderite could do. On the other hand, there may very well be an infected maintenance worker out there that we haven't caught yet.
Daemon wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:14 pm
A hammer much like the ones used by maintenance personnel, the obvious murder weapon, was abandoned not two feet away from his spilled brains.
Sander wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:46 pm
Skuggi wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:35 pm
When someone in a weakened state is expose to it, they will die. Healthy people will manage to recover over the course of the day with on-site medical assistance. Needless to say, I haven't used it yet.
That's curious. That's how they are killing us. They infect and they can only be saved the same moment they are infected. Afterwards they are to far gone to be saved.
It's quite clear that the mafia is infecting people with the virus. I have a canister with biocide, which is unrelated to any infection. When I got my role, I wasn't really sure what the weakened state meant. However, when I saw that SilveXtru was an Infected Gardener, and the relation with Daemon's story, that led me to believe that my ability is effective at killing the mafia, but the townies should recover (without the doctor protecting them). That is my understanding, anyway.

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#2329

Post by Rene »

phox wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:33 pm
the game day or today ? @Rene
Game day. But I'll come off earlier if the majority can't focus on the task at hand because they are too distracted with all the doubts about me.
Also thank you, Skugs. I appreciate you coming out.

---

Let's talk about some finds then, shall we?

Here's a material that makes me suspicious of @Bombaclaat. It's this chart they posted on day 3.

Image

It struck me on that day as well, despite I didn't bright it up. But he actually considered Blissie, the flat-earther, as a townie and counted the votes by that as well. Then I decided to look more carefully to the votes in that chart, and it doesn't seem to be adding up in all details.

Like @phox was the person that literally asked me to vote for blissie, and I took up on that call. Do you see phox's vote in that chart? Did phox vote for blissie? Yes. (Along with phox, Mary's vote was also missing, not that it matters.) Misleading charts, hm.

Do you know what else is JUST as curious? This, in this post Clemens accuses me of voting for townies and also uses a blissie vote reference?

Interesting slip, guys. That both of you make the same mistake. One after another.

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#2330

Post by Clemens »

Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 1:19 pm
This, in this post Clemens accuses me of voting for townies and also uses a blissie vote reference?

Interesting slip, guys. That both of you make the same mistake. One after another.
Clemens wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:40 pm
Rene - participates once in a while; lynches innocents and conspirators, but no infected.
There is a distinct difference between Mafia (Infected) and Conspirator (non-Infected), despite both not being full innocent.
As I've preached many times already, killing off all the Conspirators in one go helps Mafia more than it helps Townies, precisely because they count as non-Infected in the numerical theorem.
So killing any conspirators does not at all make you innocent, as an Infected would want to kill those off just the same (perhaps even more if they're concerned that the third faction may retaliate). The fact that you've lynched no Infected just underlines my point.
There is no mistake there.

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#2331

Post by Rene »

@Clemens
Well that explains your take on the third faction. But you also voted for Blissie. And that's the only third faction person I voted on. So why does that warrant suspicion when I do it but it doesn't do that when you do it? I don't know which one is worse, someone claiming the third party's imminent extermination wrong voting against their own thoughts, or someone believing that the conspirationists have no place at Crown voting for them? Given I would've voted for the other two if I made it to deadline, but I couldn't be there.

About me not voting for infected people, we had 3 that were taken out of the game so far. Not like I slept on all chances. SilveXtru resigned, Mary (I wasn't there for the deadline lynch streak, but I made it clear that I'd have followed EC's call if I found time in my posts. But I couldn't because I left my vote on Noni and then logged off.) And Emilly. Well, I explained it enough. It was Noni versus Emilly for me and I bet on the wrong one, no point in denying that.

None of this explains Bombaclaat's position at all. If you look at their chart it clearly says "townies lynched", with blissie being one amongst the townies.

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#2332

Post by Clemens »

Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 1:46 pm
@Clemens
Well that explains your take on the third faction. But you also voted for Blissie. And that's the only third faction person I voted on. So why does that warrant suspicion when I do it but it doesn't do that when you do it?
You keep focusing on individual problems rather than all combined.
Lynching innocents + conspirators, but no infected is the complete picture.
Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 1:46 pm
I don't know which one is worse, someone claiming the third party's imminent extermination wrong voting against their own thoughts, or someone believing that the conspirationists have no place at Crown voting for them? Given I would've voted for the other two if I made it to deadline, but I couldn't be there.
We didn't know blissie was a Conspirator at the time; we didn't even know they were a faction - blissie's death + Nanaa's claim is what confirmed it.
You'll also notice how I didn't vote for Nanaa because I wanted Mary/EC twins solved first (giving Infected higher priority).
And how I didn't vote for Siderite, either (because that depletes our numbers further, but wasn't going to defend him as I also doubted he was innocent).
Because bottom line is, the Infected are a bigger threat.
So there are no contradictions there.

Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 1:46 pm
It was Noni versus Emilly for me and I bet on the wrong one, no point in denying that.
Perhaps, but perhaps not. But apart from NTAs, these discussions and voting patterns are all we have.
Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 1:46 pm
None of this explains Bombaclaat's position at all. If you look at their chart it clearly says "townies lynched", with blissie being one amongst the townies.
Actually, it says "Tonwies lynched".
But I wasn't defending his chart, I was pointing out that you keep throwing shade in my direction with claims that are not even true.
My chart would read "non-Infected lynched", if I had one.

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Bombaclaat
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#2333

Post by Bombaclaat »

Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 1:46 pm
None of this explains Bombaclaat's position at all. If you look at their chart it clearly says "townies lynched", with blissie being one amongst the townies.
Dude, there have been very few mafia members eliminated and the conspiracy faction is at least halved. I am somewhat culpable in culling their numbers so I'll accept blame in that regard. They probably are a nefarious bunch or even a malevolent influence. For all intent and purposes the non-infected population (townies if you will) have been decimated. If you could provide evidence for belonging to the conspiracy faction I wouldn't vote for you. I'm inclined to do so on suspicion that you're mafia though. I'm really concerned that there might be way more than 2-3 mafia members left so I'll keep my vote on Gridfon until I have a good reason to suspect that someone is actually mafia.

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#2334

Post by Bombaclaat »

Based on these voting patterns I pointed to Mary, Nanaa and yourself. Two of them turned out to be either mafia or belonging to the conspiracy faction.

I'm really curious what faction you belong to I'm pretty confidant it's either of those two but I'd really think my vote would be wasted if you were a conspirator and not mafia. It's not really worth it lynching you if you turn out to be non-mafia.

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#2335

Post by Rene »

Bombaclaat wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 2:03 pm
Dude, there have been very few mafia members eliminated and the conspiracy faction is at least halved. I am somewhat culpable in culling their numbers so I'll accept blame in that regard. They probably are a nefarious bunch or even a malevolent influence. For all intent and purposes the non-infected population (townies if you will) have been decimated. If you could provide evidence for belonging to the conspiracy faction I wouldn't vote for you.
Then why didn't you skip voting for Nanaa and Siderite, like Clemens did? I can see your votes on *both*. Nanaa claimed to be the conspirationist afterall, no?

See, Clemens' following actions actually make sense in their line of thinking, yours do not.

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#2336

Post by Bombaclaat »

Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 2:19 pm
Bombaclaat wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 2:03 pm
Dude, there have been very few mafia members eliminated and the conspiracy faction is at least halved. I am somewhat culpable in culling their numbers so I'll accept blame in that regard. They probably are a nefarious bunch or even a malevolent influence. For all intent and purposes the non-infected population (townies if you will) have been decimated. If you could provide evidence for belonging to the conspiracy faction I wouldn't vote for you.
Then why didn't you skip voting for Nanaa and Siderite, like Clemens did? I can see your votes on *both*. Nanaa claimed to be the conspirationist afterall, no?

See, Clemens' following actions actually make sense in their line of thinking, yours do not.
We had numbers then... I fear that we may not have them in the near future. Like after tonight...

Dude, you're obfuscating and equivocating... I'm telling you provide me with good reason to believe that you at least belong to the conspiracy faction and I wouldn't vote for you. Please just tell us if you believe in 5G or reptilian conspiracies for goodness' sake then I can move on down the list of subjects.

**** it.

unvote Gridfon
vote Rene

Right now I'm willing to risk it. Please I'm not certain that your mafia so take the opportunity to actually defend yourself instead of pointing to me.

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#2337

Post by Rene »

Bombaclaat wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 2:28 pm
We had numbers then... I fear that we may not have them in the near future. Like after tonight...

Dude, you're obfuscating and equivocating... I'm telling you provide me with good reason to believe that you at least belong to the conspiracy faction and I wouldn't vote for you. Please just tell us if you believe in 5G or reptilian conspiracies for goodness' sake then I can move on down the list of subjects.

**** it.

unvote Gridfon
vote Rene

Right now I'm willing to risk it. Please I'm not certain that your mafia so take the opportunity to actually defend yourself instead of pointing to me.
Cute. I think I'll carry your vote with pride. Me admitting to being a conspirator will never happen, because I belong to the town. Sorry but you are more of a suspect than anyone for me.

- Your votes do not line up with your line of thinking.
- Your earlier votes in the game or even the Gridfon one, which you just revoked, was just to "troll".
- Charts and numbers you put up are misinformative. Like checking the wrong boxes for some voters.
- Your role claim isn't believable and the will of your NTA findings are of zero use to the town.

Even *if* you turn out to be innocent despite all of the above, I'll not feel guilty once you get lynched.

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#2338

Post by Bombaclaat »

If you can account for any NTAs now is the time for you to speak up. The dialogue with Rene isn't constructive.

Is no one feeling sick? That would be excellent and it would be good to know.

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#2339

Post by Clemens »

I have no night time ongoings to report on, unfortunately.

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#2340

Post by MrWaffles »

If no one is dying, I assume Sander saved the right person, correct? Either that or there is another blocker or the Mafia targeted Telvek (which I really doubt :-) ).

If we find out who Sander targeted (and he is truly the doctor), his target will likely be innocent, as Mafia won't target their own people. We can then also check if Noni observed that person's room last night to see who visited.

Unless I am mistaken, Sander telling us his target last night will also not reveal anything to the Mafia, because they know who they targeted last night. Does anyone disagree with my thought process?

-MrWaffles

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#2341

Post by MrWaffles »

MrWaffles wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 3:43 pm
If no one is dying, I assume Sander saved the right person, correct? Either that or there is another blocker or the Mafia targeted Telvek (which I really doubt :-) ).

If we find out who Sander targeted (and he is truly the doctor), his target will likely be innocent, as Mafia won't target their own people. We can then also check if Noni observed that person's room last night to see who visited.

Unless I am mistaken, Sander telling us his target last night will also not reveal anything to the Mafia, because they know who they targeted last night. Does anyone disagree with my thought process?

-MrWaffles
Sorry, I forgot that zero may also be able to protect people (although I am not totally clear about this), so either Sander or Zero's target from last night is innocent.

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#2342

Post by Rene »

@MrWaffles

Or Mafia targeted no one, that's very unlikely though. But yeah, yours is the safe approach. Go with it.

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#2343

Post by behemoth »

Rene wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 1:19 pm
Game day. But I'll come off earlier if the majority can't focus on the task at hand because they are too distracted with all the doubts about me.
Far as I'm concerned, this has now become the task at hand :)

We've seen it get tricky when players reveal critical information at the very end of the day when there isn't enough time to fully assess its impact/credibility and get people to rethink their votes. So, if your information is solid and helpful to the town, it will do more good now than later.

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#2344

Post by Noni »

I'm thinking zero is behind the protecting that happened last night which is why we don't have an infected victim today?

That's my best guess anyway.

@Rene i can't think of a single reason for you to keep postponing. Really. Not a genuine one anyway. You don't have an NTA, you have info to reveal but somehow the name of your role is so important that I needs to stay a secret?!

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#2345

Post by Sander »

I went for noni. Zero, who did you go for?

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#2346

Post by Heffie »

@Rene if you'd just come out with the full role, most of us would likely have given you the benefit of the doubt (provided it doesn't sound completely made up) but instead you waste everyone's time not telling us the complete role.

You keep saying it's in our interest to unvote you and focus on the other evils or suspicious characters. When asked who you think these are you start with me and skuggi basically asking everyone left to divulge their roles before you tell us yours. How does that not make it seem like you're wanting to make it up where you feel you can fill a hole after you know everyone's roles?

Then you throw suspicion on almost everyone else that's left including @phox , @Bombaclaat , @Clemens and I believe you mentioned @Sander too. Lost track.

Stop wasting time and finish divulging your whole role. I hope you realize if you leave people no choice you'll end up getting lynched.

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#2347

Post by Heffie »

Noni wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 4:44 pm
I'm thinking zero is behind the protecting that happened last night which is why we don't have an infected victim today?

That's my best guess anyway.

@Rene i can't think of a single reason for you to keep postponing. Really. Not a genuine one anyway. You don't have an NTA, you have info to reveal but somehow the name of your role is so important that I needs to stay a secret?!
Btw who did you investigate last night?

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#2348

Post by valli »

Heffie wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 5:21 pm
@Rene if you'd just come out with the full role, most of us would likely have given you the benefit of the doubt (provided it doesn't sound completely made up) but instead you waste everyone's time not telling us the complete role.

You keep saying it's in our interest to unvote you and focus on the other evils or suspicious characters. When asked who you think these are you start with me and skuggi basically asking everyone left to divulge their roles before you tell us yours. How does that not make it seem like you're wanting to make it up where you feel you can fill a hole after you know everyone's roles?

Then you throw suspicion on almost everyone else that's left including @phox , @Bombaclaat , @Clemens and I believe you mentioned @Sander too. Lost track.

Stop wasting time and finish divulging your whole role. I hope you realize if you leave people no choice you'll end up getting lynched.
That's pretty much how I see it as well. So @Rene end this farce!

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#2349

Post by Noni »

Looks like @Sander and I are like-minded.

I figured the Mafia would not go for valli or Gridfon as they are too high profile and there is a risk of the doctor trying to save them.
So I decided to hang around my own door in the hopes that if I get targeted by the scum I'll live one more day and will be able to identify the killer.

@Sander was the only one who visited me so I wasn't the target. This is why I thought @zero must have done the saving.
I can't imagine Mafia would on purpose not infect.

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#2350

Post by Noni »

Sander wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 5:08 pm
I went for noni. Zero, who did you go for?
BTW thanks for that. Fancy doing it again tomorrow night? :))

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