Mafia 1 - The CROWN - GAME OVER!

[behemoth]

Alright, let's try this a slightly different way.
People that voted for blissie:
Noni, EC, Mary, ruxi, phox, Clemens, Rene, behemoth, Emilly, zero, valli

Let's see what each individual thinks about blissie's role and death clues.
Because it's largely the same people that instantly jumped onto Siderite bandwagon without much care about the actual result of lynching blissie.
Siderite: 6 ruxi, valli, behemoth, Emilly, phox, Noni (EC unvoted again)

Clemens - Most of the players you called out already provided some thoughts on the matter. Not sure if you're trying to stall things at this point, as people have shared what little they can surmise based on the limited information at hand. The town has a limited window of time to act, and it can only be to our advantage if we take out players who 1) are suspicious/don't contribute anything useful/may cause unknown damage to the town, and 2) whose death could help provide useful role information to the town. Regardless of whether a conspiracy theorist/flat earther is a good role or not, which we can continue to debate as we go, give me one good reason why you think it's worth delaying Siderite's death or giving him a pass before we turn our attention to the mafia - i.e. Mary, then Sander's claim, which brings into question your own claim that you were targeted N1. So, if you're not mafia, maybe you might not want to delay things and suddenly call for caution where caution is not warranted. I say we stick to the plan and take out Siderite, then reassess and proceed from there.

[Emilly]

I'm a bit confused, what would we be achieving at this point by switching all our votes from siderite to telvek? Both are randomly voting people and not wanting to use logic or reasoning to help the town.

I agree. @Siderite just told us that he is not going to play anymore. I think he should die.

[phox]

I'm a bit confused, what would we be achieving at this point by switching all our votes from siderite to telvek? Both are randomly voting people and not wanting to use logic or reasoning to help the town.

I don't want mafia to outnumber us, I agree both are useless, I am merely suggesting not killing two from the same group if we are not sure if they are considered townies or not.

[behemoth]

Right, but either way you look at it Siderite is dead weight. He has not done a single thing to help, and we don't know if he has the ability to harm. If we get him out now we can get his role info, and maybe still have enough time to go at Televek. Regardless, based on the evidence we have so far about Mary, we would still be taking out one mafia at the end of this day. It would be a win-win.

[EscapedConvict]

3. conspiracy theorists who do not kill at night but voting. They will probably win if they stay alive. I think that @blissie and @Nanaa are part of this group.

But do you think they count as townies for Mafia's victory condition?
Mafia win if Mafia > Townies + Conspirators?

I say we shouldn't risk finding out today. we already lynched a conpiracy loco dude , let's go for mafia now, one down from each faction.
@Siderite's type does not seem to represent a character of the mafia type, more likely the crazy type. unvote Siderite
And let's see about Telvek. vote Telvek
@EscapedConvict or anyone else do you agree with this idea?

Now @Siderite has 7 votes @Noni

To me either @Siderite or @Telvek are people I'd lynch.
Useless players and I agree with @behemoth . At least we get info.
So count me in whatever the majority decides (I have about 17 hours left until I vote myself again..."counting fingers to check math")

[Heffie]

@phox which would make sense but are they all crazies at this point? By they, in addition to blissie, I'm referring to siderite, nanaa, and televek. I don't think they would be more than 3, similar to how the security team was set up. So one of them, at least, must be mafia.

[phox]

I just hope mafia does not get majority if we lynch too many locos, which might be considered townies. BTW how many mafia players do we think there still are in total? and how many of the other bad faction?

[Noni]

i'd say mafia plus psychos would probably be 1/3 of the total? if there were any more the chances would not be even. then again we do have two people who declared they are immune to night attacks

[Sander]

• Maintenance is Mafia, they kill by infecting (1-day delayed death theory) and with tools (depending on which of them does it, a different role-specific tool is probably used)

That would mean that they could kill twice in one night.
according to your theory, Joe got infected in N2 and we also have the hammer in n2. So that doesn’t add up.

And dang I thought the day ended today not tomorrow.

[phox]

i'd say mafia plus psychos would probably be 1/3 of the total? if there were any more the chances would not be even. then again we do have two people who declared they are immune to night attacks

so then there would be around 8 bad guys then? cause silvextru is dead

[Noni]

i don't know i'm not daemon and i;ve never moderated a forum mafia. i'm just guessing here

[behemoth]

I think at least 2-3 mafias are still alive. On the higher end, I doubt there would be more than 4 actual mafias left. Telvek is likely one of them.

Hey Telvek, while we wait, mind making another appearance for appearance sake and indulging us with a role claim?

[behemoth]

Is it worth also mentioning that Mary has completely disappeared? She hasn't even bother to at least keep up the pretense and help the town by offering her vote.

[Noni]

i believe she was one of the first to vote for blissie

[phox]

Is it worth also mentioning that Mary has completely disappeared? She hasn't even bother to at least keep up the pretense and help the town by offering her vote.

she is a lost cause anyway. why bother? I am actually glad , because it would have only made us waste time on her when we already know the outcome.

[Clemens]

Clemens - Most of the players you called out already provided some thoughts on the matter. Not sure if you're trying to stall things at this point, as people have shared what little they can surmise based on the limited information at hand.

Sorting it in this flood of posts, making it easier to read, think about, and talk about.

give me one good reason why you think it's worth delaying Siderite's death or giving him a pass before we turn our attention to the mafia

As stated many times before not only by myself, the reason is numerical victory conditions.
A very simple concept.

So, if you're not mafia, maybe you might not want to delay things and suddenly call for caution where caution is not warranted.

That reads like a threat. And incriminates you a lot more than it does me.

I think at least 2-3 mafias are still alive. On the higher end, I doubt there would be more than 4 actual mafias left.

Then how many do you think we started with? And who are the ones you subtract from the beginning amount?

That would mean that they could kill twice in one night.
according to your theory, Joe got infected in N2 and we also have the hammer in n2. So that doesn’t add up.

I know that Daemon has given Mafia multiple killing methods in a game hosted by him before.
Mafia is not a single person, it's an entire team, and usually with NTAs.
Overly strong NTAs usually have limited use, cooldowns, or special requirements associated with them.
Considering that delayed-death is a weaker killing method than Mafia usually has (=death being instant), I would not be surprised if they had other NTAs to boost their balance.

[phox]

My top mafia picks:

1.Telvek
2. Mary
3. Waffles (always acting like goody two shoes)
4. Somebody who is sneaky and bringing forth a lot of good points to blend in with the townies, otherwise it would be too easy.

Conspiracy faction: siderite nanna blissie ?

and also suspicious but no idea what he is maybe mafia: Bombaclaat (????)

[Heffie]

Considering that delayed-death is a weaker killing method than Mafia usually has (=death being instant), I would not be surprised if they had other NTAs to boost their balance.

Such as...?

[Noni]

My top mafia picks:

1.Telvek
2. Mary
3. Waffles (always acting like goody two shoes)
4. Somebody who is sneaky and bringing forth a lot of good points to blend in with the townies, otherwise it would be too easy.

Conspiracy faction: siderite nanna blissie ?

and also suspicious but no idea what he is maybe mafia: Bombaclaat (????)

Mary we already know cause EC told us, Waffles we already know cause princess told us. these are both sure mafia bets. telvek - i don't know what he is but he hasn't said anything helpful in any of his 5 posts.

[Mary]

Is it worth also mentioning that Mary has completely disappeared? She hasn't even bother to at least keep up the pretense and help the town by offering her vote.

@behemoth You must not be paying attention. I voted for blissie, helped with nanaa's role claim and then blissie again to help with the lynch. I have also said I'd vote EC by the end of the day to help the town.

I did not think further commentary was required since every other post states the clear intention to kill me by the end of the day, so I might as well be talking to myself as no one will actually takes notice.

At over 1500 posts, don't think it will help the town adding extra posts that you guys will anyway ignore. Unlike some people here, it's been the most pragmatic way of me being helpful to the town, given the position I've been put in since you're all adamant you've made up your minds. You're welcome.

[Noni]

Considering that delayed-death is a weaker killing method than Mafia usually has (=death being instant), I would not be surprised if they had other NTAs to boost their balance.

Such as...?

food poisoning

[phox]

Considering that delayed-death is a weaker killing method than Mafia usually has (=death being instant), I would not be surprised if they had other NTAs to boost their balance.

Such as...?

such as food poisoning

[Clemens]

Considering that delayed-death is a weaker killing method than Mafia usually has (=death being instant), I would not be surprised if they had other NTAs to boost their balance.

Such as...?

Such as another killing method?
Albeit with restrictions such as certain amount of nights inbetween (aka cooldown).
Or the many harmful NTAs we are not sure about?
Like Mandatory Cleaning, Food Poisoning, Compelling-to-Vote?

Mary we already know cause EC told us, Waffles we already know cause princess told us. these are both sure mafia bets.

Then why are we voting for the inactive and unhelpful ones when we have "sure mafia bets"?

[phox]

Is it worth also mentioning that Mary has completely disappeared? She hasn't even bother to at least keep up the pretense and help the town by offering her vote.

@behemoth You must not be paying attention. I voted for blissie, helped with nanaa's role claim and then blissie again to help with the lynch. I have also said I'd vote EC by the end of the day to help the town.

I did not think further commentary was required since every other post states the clear intention to kill me by the end of the day, so I might as well be talking to myself as no one will actually takes notice.

At over 1500 posts, don't think it will help the town adding extra posts that you guys will anyway ignore. Unlike some people here, it's been the most pragmatic way of me being helpful to the town, given the position I've been put in since you're all adamant you've made up your minds. You're welcome.

yeah @behemoth mary did really help us nudge nanna and vote off blissie, before you did, so you can at least give her that

[Heffie]

I was thinking about vote blocking too, but I was curious as to what @Clemens was referring to.

[Emilly]

What do we know about Heffie? It seems to me that she plays very carefully and withdrawn. Its not her style.

[Heffie]

Ok we are killing time. We seem to agree on the suspicious parties, what are we waiting for?

[Noni]

because all day i've been saying who i want to vote and nobody wants to work with me and the psychos are just as bad as mafia in my opinion as they distract the town from actually lynching mafia.

so maybe once they are out of the way, our chances to lynch mafia will be better. the twins one because we still need EC

[phox]

Considering that delayed-death is a weaker killing method than Mafia usually has (=death being instant), I would not be surprised if they had other NTAs to boost their balance.

Such as...?

Such as another killing method?
Albeit with restrictions such as certain amount of nights inbetween (aka cooldown).
Or the many harmful NTAs we are not sure about?
Like Mandatory Cleaning, Food Poisoning, Compelling-to-Vote?

Mary we already know cause EC told us, Waffles we already know cause princess told us. these are both sure mafia bets.

Then why are we voting for the inactive and unhelpful ones when we have "sure mafia bets"?

cause we already said we are voting for Mary tomorrow remember? and because we already have a role from waffles there is nothing more we can find out from him, we can lynch him tomorrow anyways if we really wanted to, telvek we know nothing about and he is also quite dubious. SO I wouldn't mind if a bunch of votes piled on him by tomorrow morning to give him an incentive to say smth.

[Heffie]

What do we know about Heffie? It seems to me that she plays very carefully and withdrawn. Its not her style.

I was only withdrawn right before end of game days because of work, you can see when that's over, I'm here trying to find answers and ensuring we're using our time efficiently and voting the MOST likely mafiosos.

If you have suspicions about me, you should state them, don't go asking other people what they think.

[Clemens]

Seeing as it's getting late, I can add a vote onto someone for the (real world Europe) night before I go to (real world) bed for those that are going to be around for longer.

[phox]

Ok we are killing time. We seem to agree on the suspicious parties, what are we waiting for?

For people to make balanced risks, and not kill off the locos just based on their hunches. MAFIA IS WORSE. Next target should be mafia. I know it's easy to kill siderite now cause he already has a bunch of votes but let's not exagerate in one direction and neglect the other.

[Heffie]

Ok we are killing time. We seem to agree on the suspicious parties, what are we waiting for?

For people to make balanced risks, and not kill off the locos just based on their hunches. MAFIA IS WORSE. Next target should be mafia. I know it's easy to kill siderite now cause he already has a bunch of votes but let's not exagerate in one direction and neglect the other.

So you're suggesting we all switch the votes now to televek to get a role claim I assume. If we all agree, I'm of course willing to switch. They're both scummy to me. My only fear is we're losing people to nighttime, work tomorrow etc. so we are at risk for slowing down again as a voting unit.

[phox]

Seeing as it's getting late, I can add a vote onto someone for the (real world Europe) night before I go to (real world) bed for those that are going to be around for longer.

I voted for telvek.
@EscapedConvict doesn't like @Telvek either . Who do you wanna vote for @Clemens ?

[Noni]

Seeing as it's getting late, I can add a vote onto someone for the (real world Europe) night before I go to (real world) bed for those that are going to be around for longer.

I voted for telvek.
@EscapedConvict doesn't like @Telvek either . Who do you wanna vote for @Clemens ?

i agree to switch my vote too but only if we decide in the next 10 min as i am also going to bed

[phox]

Ok we are killing time. We seem to agree on the suspicious parties, what are we waiting for?

For people to make balanced risks, and not kill off the locos just based on their hunches. MAFIA IS WORSE. Next target should be mafia. I know it's easy to kill siderite now cause he already has a bunch of votes but let's not exagerate in one direction and neglect the other.

So you're suggesting we all switch the votes now to televek to get a role claim I assume. If we all agree, I'm of course willing to switch. They're both scummy to me. My only fear is we're losing people to nighttime, work tomorrow etc. so we are at risk for slowing down again as a voting unit.

I could live in a world without @Telvek no problem. and @Heffie if radwulf was lynched in the last couple of hours of the day with people who were super confused and not united, I am sure we can lynch them both no problem , we have a plan. Telvek and then the twins ... ez

[Heffie]

Ok, I gotta head to bed - long day tomorrow and I don't know when I'll be able to post again but I've counted at least 5 people on this page willing to switch. To not be a hold up I'll unvote:siderite and vote:telvek

[phox]

everyone agrees , and nobody is voting ) great. @Clemens vote before you go to bed , as you promised.

[phox]

@Mary I must admit you were really helpful with Nanna and blissie, wanna help a little more?
@EscapedConvict remember you said you are willing to vote for @Telvek

[Noni]

unvote Siderite vote Telvek
happy @phox ?

tomorrow we handle our mutual suspect!!

[Noni]

current votes:
noni 1- siderite
telvek 3 - phox, heffie, noni
siderite 5 - behemoth, emily, ec, princess.ruxi, valli

[EscapedConvict]

Unvote Siderite

Vote Telvek

[Clemens]

Who do you wanna vote for @Clemens ?

To kill? Only feeling good about the @EscapedConvict/@Mary twins.
Everyone else I am uncertain of as I have seen many players that have given me reason to doubt them, but not enough to lynch them definitely.
@Nanaa I would rather not kill due to my conspirator-theory.
@Sander's playstyle fits his personality, so his words and actions have lost meaning.
@Telvek and @Bombaclaat are more of those inactives barely contributing.
@behemoth is incredibly eager to not go for Mafiosos and just lynch one after the other with reckless abandon.
@MrWaffles literally food poisons people - and I can see cook being "food maintenance" (in accordance with my current theories).
@zero hasn't had a chance to comment on any of this; besides, not sure if evil or just ignorant.
And a couple of others that I will get attacked for if I bring them up now.

So if Telvek is your collective choice, that will have to do if no one convinces me otherwise.

[Noni]

Who do you wanna vote for @Clemens ?

To kill? Only feeling good about the @EscapedConvict/@Mary twins.
Everyone else I am uncertain of as I have seen many players that have given me reason to doubt them, but not enough to lynch them definitely.
@Nanaa I would rather not kill due to my conspirator-theory.
@Sander's playstyle fits his personality, so his words and actions have lost meaning.
@Telvek and @Bombaclaat are more of those inactives barely contributing.
@behemoth is incredibly eager to not go for Mafiosos and just lynch one after the other with reckless abandon.
@MrWaffles literally food poisons people - and I can see cook being "food maintenance" (in accordance with my current theories).
@zero hasn't had a chance to comment on any of this; besides, not sure if evil or just ignorant.
And a couple of others that I will get attacked for if I bring them up now.

So if Telvek is your collective choice, that will have to do if no one convinces me otherwise.

Also one thing I wanna point out about sander. If he was lying about his nta why would he make trouble for himself and declare joe as his night 2 target?
I am less inclined to vote for sander but think some of the other people on the list are safe bets

[phox]

Who do you wanna vote for @Clemens ?

To kill? Only feeling good about the @EscapedConvict/@Mary twins.
Everyone else I am uncertain of as I have seen many players that have given me reason to doubt them, but not enough to lynch them definitely.
@Nanaa I would rather not kill due to my conspirator-theory.
@Sander's playstyle fits his personality, so his words and actions have lost meaning.
@Telvek and @Bombaclaat are more of those inactives barely contributing.
@behemoth is incredibly eager to not go for Mafiosos and just lynch one after the other with reckless abandon.
@MrWaffles literally food poisons people - and I can see cook being "food maintenance" (in accordance with my current theories).
@zero hasn't had a chance to comment on any of this; besides, not sure if evil or just ignorant.
And a couple of others that I will get attacked for if I bring them up now.

So if Telvek is your collective choice, that will have to do if no one convinces me otherwise.

1. I agree somewhat with the food poisoning thing you said, it might be a theory, I thought abt it myself,BUT why the hammer only every other night and the food every night? cause the food is a weaker ability?

2. If we don't kill telvek now we will maybe have to kill him the next day, D4 and again have all the drama and cry that he is again inactive, or do you think he will miraculously be able to come up with the best and most logical excuse for the way in which he has been playing so far? and then we will all believe him. If we don't eliminate people how do we narrow it down? He is very suspicios and on top of it inactive, as others have put it "dead weight" and a time waste for the town.

[behemoth]

give me one good reason why you think it's worth delaying Siderite's death or giving him a pass before we turn our attention to the mafia

As stated many times before not only by myself, the reason is numerical victory conditions.
A very simple concept.

Yes, one that was not clear to me from your initial statements but that I am now on board with after reading all the subsequent posts.

I think at least 2-3 mafias are still alive. On the higher end, I doubt there would be more than 4 actual mafias left.

Then how many do you think we started with? And who are the ones you subtract from the beginning amount? [/quote]

This is the part of the game that is not my strong suit, along with numbers in general. But if we go with the assumption that 1/3 of the total players are bad, that would be around 9 players who are in the mafia/psycho/evil faction category. Depending on the strength of the NTAs, there might be less or more, but I'd think 8-10 is the feasible range, with a breakdown of about 4-5 mafia. After this it gets tricky - there might be one other distinct evil faction and a psycho, or there may be two distinct factions in addition to the traditional "mafia".

Regarding the multiple factions theory, has it been completely ruled out that the security team could have been bad? I will have to go back and read both Daemon's story and also the discussions at the time to solidify my own opinion, but the fact that the players didn't know each other along with their suspicious play would make me think they were bad.

The conspiracy theorists/flat earthers could be another destructive faction, and Siderite might be part of their team or he may be a lone psycho type.

We have 20 players alive. If so far we haven't killed anyone bad and 9 of the remaining players are bad but belong to at least two factions, the numbers are still on our side if we kill Mary today and she is mafia. If Blissie was bad too, the numbers look better, but either way Siderite's death would not be a game changer and would actually help if he is bad.

[Clemens]

Sorry for the slow reply, my internet had a hiccup, so I was sitting here frantically hitting F5.
On that note, vote Telvek before it happens again.

1. I agree somewhat with the food poisoning thing you said, it might be a theory, I thought abt it myself,BUT why the hammer only every other night and the food every night? cause the food is a weaker ability?

Yes, the food would be a normal NTA, but the tool-kill would be a special bonus.
It's just a theory, though.

2. If we don't kill telvek now we will maybe have to kill him the next day, D4 and again have all the drama and cry that he is again inactive, or do you think he will miraculously be able to come up with the best and most logical excuse for the way in which he has been playing so far? and then we will all believe him. If we don't eliminate people how do we narrow it down? He is very suspicios and on top of it inactive, as others have put it "dead weight" and a time waste for the town.

I don't think he'll suddenly be active, but lynching any inactive is a gamble as there may be other reasons for their inactivity than being guilty.
We DID accumulate 1695 posts up until now, that IS overwhelming.
However, as long as we do not forget about EC/Mary, spending some time to figure out a good target should be worth it.

Now, (real world) good night!

[phox]

I don't think he'll suddenly be active, but lynching any inactive is a gamble as there may be other reasons for their inactivity than being guilty.
We DID accumulate 1695 posts up until now, that IS overwhelming.
However, as long as we do not forget about EC/Mary, spending some time to figure out a good target should be worth it.

Now, (real world) good night!

yep but it's a risk I'm willing to take , he has not just been inactive, he has also had some fishy scum behaviour. And on the plus side, the lynch will give us info from the mod, if he decides not to speak tomorrow, and at least it will let us stop always wondering about him and getting distracted from the mafia. but yeah he has sketchy written all over him. Nite everyone!

[behemoth]

New developments I see
unvote Siderite
vote Telvek

[behemoth]

Is it worth also mentioning that Mary has completely disappeared? She hasn't even bother to at least keep up the pretense and help the town by offering her vote.

@behemoth You must not be paying attention. I voted for blissie, helped with nanaa's role claim and then blissie again to help with the lynch. I have also said I'd vote EC by the end of the day to help the town.

I did not think further commentary was required since every other post states the clear intention to kill me by the end of the day, so I might as well be talking to myself as no one will actually takes notice.

At over 1500 posts, don't think it will help the town adding extra posts that you guys will anyway ignore. Unlike some people here, it's been the most pragmatic way of me being helpful to the town, given the position I've been put in since you're all adamant you've made up your minds. You're welcome.

My bad, I did miss that. Thanks for correcting the record.